Dee Snider's Comments on Axl

[realgunner]

Stupid? No.


Let me ask you something: How often do you discover a new band and then decide not to buy the album because they've changed band members over the years?

Here's a scenario for you: GN'R releases a new single. Person A hears it on the radio and the DJ says "so that was the new single from GN'R, the new album is out next week". Person A thinks "I'll have to check it out. That sounded great!"

The following week Person A is in a record store and sees a display featuring the new GN'R record. What does this person do?
A. Buy the record since (s)he liked the single played on the radio.
B. Don't buy the record because (s)he found out Slash wasn't in the band anymore.




/jarmo

I'll purchase the record if I like what I hear,it doesn't matter to me if Slash and the others aren't in the band. I'll always know that it isn't GN'R that I'm listening to,but there's something you can bet on, if it rocks I'll buy it.

[killingvector]

The only thing I have to add is that MTV allowed a band with no album and only one original member to close it's biggest award show with an epic eight minute performance; they would never allow Poison or TS a slot like that. How many promoters would then give said band an arena tour ? Of course something fucked it up. What fucked it up is still a mystery, but the fact that there is still an appetite for this music and the mystery that is axl rose goes a long way.? GnR have a mystery and intrigue about them that no sensually defunct band has today.

You obviously think that the casual music fan is going to look up all the info on who's in that band and then decide "nah, I'm not interested in it since Axl is the only one left".

Not everybody is as attached to the name thing as you and certain others on this board. I think many people will just be happy if GN'R sounds like GN'R and they don't care if Slash isn't playing guitar on the records anymore.

So it seems like that NU-GN'R was only given by the chance to play at the VMAs because Guns N' Roses was so big back in '87-'94. Not the new band was invited, but the old's legacy. People went to the 'Chinese Democracy World Tour', because they thought GN'R will play there. Not for Nu-GN'R. And on the other hand this 'world tour' wasn't successful with half-full arenas. As years go by memories getting nicer, but don't forget the titles such as 'GN'R 2002 is not an arena band'.

They invited GnR, yes, because of how big they once were. They wouldn't ask Jet to close the VMAs. Only the big guns get invited to close shows. They also invited them because there is still considerable interest in what Axl is doing ; everyone recognizes how talented this guy is.

You are semi correct that people went to the shows expecting to see the old band. There were some people there like that; but there were alot of people who went to see the new guys, either fans or curiosity following the VMA performance. Many people were wearing buckets and singing the new songs. It was a good mix.

But overall I think you are missing the point: people went to the shows to hear GNR music again. Judging from the reaction of the crowds I witnessed, they loved the new guys take on the old songs and were thrilled to see Axl again. No matter what anyone says, he is popular enough to carry this band in lieu of slash and duff. If Axl wasn't there, it would not have worked. Although the 2002 was frought with problems and not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, it was for me a good appetizer for what is hopefully to come.

Your statement that GnR 2002 was not?an arena band is just shortsighted. First of all, there were sellouts: The non US shows were all sold out as well as Boston and MSG. In fact the East Coast dates were selling quite well. The early portion of the US Tour was a disappointment but I think that it was partially to ill advised scheduling. There were shows in remote areas like Boise, Hartford, and Fargo during the middle of the work week which had no hope of filling up 10 000 seat arenas.? More importantly though,?the disappointing turn out at the beginning of the tour can be attributed to the limited publicity and lack of an album to promote. Without a single on the radio and an album in the stores, GnR could do nothing but spin it's own wheels with a redundant set list. Not a great choice, but one hopefully that will never be made again.

Will people embrace a new lineup of players on a comparable level with the old band? Probably not but it will depend on the quality of the new music.

[axlholic09]

 D.S is probably just pissed and jelous cuz 1) no one gives a flying fuck about twisted sister and his stupid ass 2) axls more popular and loved 3) axls had more hits than he has 4)axl probably has way more fans than them 5) dee's a dickhead

[christina_rose]

I went to see GNR just to SEE GNR. I could care less who was in the band. I grew up listening to the music. I listened to people who got to go see GNR on the UYI tour. I was so jealous I'm surprised I didn't turn green. Sure, I'm VERY partial to Axl, but I was SO happy that there was some sort of GNR tour, that I knew I HAD to be there. I wanted to see GNR play so bad, that even after the Philly Riot, which I was in the middle of, I STILL drove down that Sunday or whatever it was, for the second Philly show, only to find out the tour was cancelled. But I feel honored and privilaged that I was able to see them at MSG. It's something I can have as a GNR fan. I want the album to come out as much as the next person does. But no matter what happens, or how much drama goes on, I will be a GNR fan forever. As long as I have something to play music on, or watch a concert on, GNR music will go on with me forever. Whether its 4 albums or 40, I am just glad that there was a GNR to begin with.

[younggunner]

Let me ask you something: How often do you discover a new band and then decide not to buy the album because they've changed band members over the years?

Here's a scenario for you: GN'R releases a new single. Person A hears it on the radio and the DJ says "so that was the new single from GN'R, the new album is out next week". Person A thinks "I'll have to check it out. That sounded great!"

The following week Person A is in a record store and sees a display featuring the new GN'R record. What does this person do?
A. Buy the record since (s)he liked the single played on the radio.
B. Don't buy the record because (s)he found out Slash wasn't in the band anymore.

Couldnt agree with you more...I have been saying this for years on this board..

As for the VMA thing. Of course they earned the cloising spot because of old gnr success. But killingvector hit it right on the head. Peopel are interested in Axl ROse. Case Closed. The guy  draws interest and mystique. If i remember correctly tehre were stars on the red carpet before the show saying how they couldnt wait ot see buckethead, etc.

Its going to come down to the material. If its good peopel will but, gnr will be popular again. As popular as the old. Of course not. It all hinders on the music.....

[jarmo]

So you discovered Black Sabbath had an album out, then decided not to buy it because Ozzy had left?

I mentioned discovering a band's new material for the first time after certain members had left. Not discovering their old material first.




/jarmo

[jarmo]

But people who discovered the old band first, aren't the people I'm talking about.

So how often have you bought a new album, and then realized they had changed members and gotten pissed off?

I got "Songs For The Deaf" by QOTSA a few years back. Did it bother me that Josh Homme was the only one who played on their debut album? No.... I realized that afterwards.




/jarmo

[Walapino]

What Jarmo says works if its the first time your listening to the band cuz you simply dont know who the hell are the members,etc and probably dont care that much either.
Obviously if you know about the band and know that some original members are gone you might be either not interested or try and investigate more about the new cd before just rushing and buying. Either way if the music is good people will buy, some people will need more convincing than others but thats the way its gonna be.

This is regardless if you consider this new band gnr or not, if the music is good and you dont buy cuz you dont like Axl or whatever decision he made then its your loss... same thing if you didnt buy Contraband cuz you didnt like Slash or Duff opinion, its childish, lame and quite frankly pathetic!

[killingvector]

What Jarmo says works if its the first time your listening to the band cuz you simply dont know who the hell are the members,etc and probably dont care that much either.
Obviously if you know about the band and know that some original members are gone you might be either not interested or try and investigate more about the new cd before just rushing and buying. Either way if the music is good people will buy, some people will need more convincing than others but thats the way its gonna be.

This is regardless if you consider this new band gnr or not, if the music is good and you dont buy cuz you dont like Axl or whatever decision he made then its your loss... same thing if you didnt buy Contraband cuz you didnt like Slash or Duff opinion, its childish, lame and quite frankly pathetic!

I did buy contraband the first day. So I will remove myself from that select group.

[killingvector]

So how often have you bought a new album, and then realized they had changed members and gotten pissed off?

I can't really say because I can't think of any circumstance where that's happened with the albums I've bought.? I have bought a few CDs where the band members had been changed, but in every instance, I knew about it and had heard the music beforehand.? One key example is AC/DC.? I had heard songs from both Bon Scott and Brian Johnson eras before I bought the CDs, because songs such as "Highway to Hell" and "You Shook me All Night Long" were (and still are) in heavy rotation on the radio.

if the music is good and you dont buy cuz you dont like Axl or whatever decision he made then its your loss... same thing if you didnt buy Contraband cuz you didnt like Slash or Duff opinion, its childish, lame and quite frankly pathetic!

I agree, but that isn't the point.? The fact is, for whatever reason, most people who are used to a certain sound and certain members from a band don't buy the music if it's been changed into a lineup and sound which is unfamiliar.? Whether or not it's "your loss" is irrelevant, the point is, they're less likely to buy it.

I think it depends who left. Axl is still the personification of the band as perceived by the general population. With talented replacements for slash, people will still have an interest in the new guys, especially if the new music is good. I don't think if Axl left and the other guys went on, it could succeed.

But why worry about this? If anything is working against axl, it's time. The longer that these delays go on, the fewer thepeople who will retain an interest in the old music and the fewer the number of knowledgable younger fans to replace them.

[Walapino]

So how often have you bought a new album, and then realized they had changed members and gotten pissed off?

I can't really say because I can't think of any circumstance where that's happened with the albums I've bought.? I have bought a few CDs where the band members had been changed, but in every instance, I knew about it and had heard the music beforehand.? One key example is AC/DC.? I had heard songs from both Bon Scott and Brian Johnson eras before I bought the CDs, because songs such as "Highway to Hell" and "You Shook me All Night Long" were (and still are) in heavy rotation on the radio.

if the music is good and you dont buy cuz you dont like Axl or whatever decision he made then its your loss... same thing if you didnt buy Contraband cuz you didnt like Slash or Duff opinion, its childish, lame and quite frankly pathetic!

I agree, but that isn't the point.? The fact is, for whatever reason, most people who are used to a certain sound and certain members from a band don't buy the music if it's been changed into a lineup and sound which is unfamiliar.? Whether or not it's "your loss" is irrelevant, the point is, they're less likely to buy it.

thats exactly why i tried to say, fuck if its "your loss" not everyone is gonna like it, but unfortunately theres nothing we can do because Axl never gave a fuck!

I just think its stupid to take sides, GNR will never be the same as it was unless the moon turned blue and you know the rest.... but to cry a river is even lamer.

[Mikkamakka]

I think it depends who left. Axl is still the personification of the band as perceived by the general population. With talented replacements for slash, people will still have an interest in the new guys, especially if the new music is good. I don't think if Axl left and the other guys went on, it could succeed.

I disagree. Guns N' Roses was indentified by Axl Rose and Slash for the general public. Fans like me will buy Axl's new album, although Slash was my favourite member, but Axl is my favourite singer. But softcore fans, like some of my friends, sees a different Axl Rose with a gothic guy, a punk, a YMCA guy, a fisherman and 2 rock 'n' roll guys. And the whole world knows who Slash is, but hardly anyone knows who Finck or BH is. Aerosmith was a complete shit without Joe Perry. Imagine Queen without Brian May, Led Zep without Jimmy Page etc. Softcore GN'R fans don't care if Izzy and Duff is still in the band, 'cause maybe they have never known their names. But not to know Slash? It's a joke. Even those people who hated Guns N' Roses knew Axl and Slash. Slash is not a nobody like John5 or Robin Finck who can be in or out of the band and nobody cares. So you are really missing this one.
The little kids who didn't hear Guns N' Roses live don't really find it interesting - maybe with a strong campaign GN'R can be successful again, but Axl has to win millions of new fans to replace the old ones. On the other hand: don't forget that one of the main factors of Axl's success was his sexepil: imagine the 2002 Axl Rose as a sex symbol! No way.

[phaseONE]

Totally agree with you Mikkamakka,

Couldnt agree more, guns `chinese democracy starts now ` world tour failure was a big wake up call for axl.
People wanted to see GUNS N ROSES , not axl rose and co, and thats the plain n simple reason why that tour didnt sell and was a massive embaressment.

GNR were an untouchable force in music, well, up untill TSI anyway, after that it fell apart and didnt recover and probably wont for a loooooong time.

The only way for AXL to succeed in what hes trying to do is change the name of the band, pure and simple, without doing that hes deemed to fail.
GNR were a family, u cant change your family no matter who u are, u cant tell someone that what theve got is not what it actually is.
Unless you are stupid and weak minded.

[killingvector]

I think it depends who left. Axl is still the personification of the band as perceived by the general population. With talented replacements for slash, people will still have an interest in the new guys, especially if the new music is good. I don't think if Axl left and the other guys went on, it could succeed.

I disagree. Guns N' Roses was indentified by Axl Rose and Slash for the general public. Fans like me will buy Axl's new album, although Slash was my favourite member, but Axl is my favourite singer. But softcore fans, like some of my friends, sees a different Axl Rose with a gothic guy, a punk, a YMCA guy, a fisherman and 2 rock 'n' roll guys. And the whole world knows who Slash is, but hardly anyone knows who Finck or BH is. Aerosmith was a complete shit without Joe Perry. Imagine Queen without Brian May, Led Zep without Jimmy Page etc. Softcore GN'R fans don't care if Izzy and Duff is still in the band, 'cause maybe they have never known their names. But not to know Slash? It's a joke. Even those people who hated Guns N' Roses knew Axl and Slash. Slash is not a nobody like John5 or Robin Finck who can be in or out of the band and nobody cares. So you are really missing this one.
The little kids who didn't hear Guns N' Roses live don't really find it interesting - maybe with a strong campaign GN'R can be successful again, but Axl has to win millions of new fans to replace the old ones. On the other hand: don't forget that one of the main factors of Axl's success was his sexepil: imagine the 2002 Axl Rose as a sex symbol! No way.

I think in some ways you contradicted yourself. Axl was seen as a huge sex symbol which is why so many bandwagon fans jumped on board. I don't dispute that music fans saw this as a Slash n Axl sideshow, but to sell as much as they did requires teenage boys and girls to buy these albums. Girls bought the albums because of Axl.

Will that happen now? no. The music has to step and be a certain level to win people back. The tour didn't fail because it was only axl. There was no album or single to generate people's interest. For any band to go on an arena tour after nearly ten years out of the spotlight and nothing to promote is a tough tough sell. So don't jump to any conclusions.

[jarmo]

Couldnt agree more, guns `chinese democracy starts now ` world tour failure was a big wake up call for axl.
People wanted to see GUNS N ROSES , not axl rose and co, and thats the plain n simple reason why that tour didnt sell and was a massive embaressment.

Tell that to the people in Europe.

Just because it was a failure in USA, doesn't mean it was the same in the rest of the world.

GN'R sold out in London, UK and the festivals were packed with people who weren't even fans but wanted to see GN'R anyway.



/jarmo

[phaseONE]

I live in the UK jarmo,

I know how the `tour` sold here, i mean, what do you expect, they only played a 2 - 3 places in the uk and 1 festival here, and they were small places.

The festivals are always packed no matter who is playing anyways, people go for the booze and women primarily and music 2nd place, and thats how it should be!

[Jagger]

There still seems to be an interest in GN'R and also what Axl does. All you have to do is to look at how great the Greatest Hits is selling.

GN'R was asked to headline one night at the RIR4 festival so obviously there's interest in the band.
/jarmo

Interest in the OLD band

[killingvector]

There still seems to be an interest in GN'R and also what Axl does. All you have to do is to look at how great the Greatest Hits is selling.

GN'R was asked to headline one night at the RIR4 festival so obviously there's interest in the band.
/jarmo

Interest in the OLD band

Well we will see and settle this disagreement when Chinese Democracy is released. Til then, this argument is simply a push.

[jarmo]

Keep talking about the old band. The RIR4 people didn't ask the old band to headline.

MTV didn't ask the old band to close the 2002 VMAs.

You could also say that VR are selling albums thanks to interest in the old band. But you'd never admit that.



/jarmo

[PhillyRiot]

Keep talking about the old band. The RIR4 people didn't ask the old band to headline.

MTV didn't ask the old band to close the 2002 VMAs.

You could also say that VR are selling albums thanks to interest in the old band. But you'd never admit that.

/jarmo

True, but the old band haven't been reclusive since the Spaghetti Incident either.