DUFF : AXL ROSE Never Wrote Any Of The GUNS N' ROSES MUSIC

[D]

here are the main components of songwriting, im gonna break it down to u.

lyrics, vocal melodies and chord structure.

november rain,estranged and breakdown for instance are credited to axl because

he wrote the lyrics
the vocal melodies
and the chord progression/changes

granted NR and estranged wouldnt be the same without slash's contribution it would still be a song without slash's contribution, maybe not as good but a song nonetheless

same reason why drums and bass usually arent credited on songwriting

with the guitar riff u have the chord progression and unless u are Flea most players play off the chord progression

drummers do the beat but once again without drums u still have a song therefore drums arent viewed as a credited songwriting source except for rare occassions where the drums may make the song a la paradise city maybe you could be mine.

[Smoking Guns]

Well, the video Of Dead Horse was pretty bad ass.  That was the best thing from this 13 page thread.  I don't think Duff was being literal.  I think he was saying exactly what Jarmo interpreted.  Axl didn't right as much as people think.  GNR is going to get back together in a few years anyway.  So I guess we will find out then.  Anyway, great video from Argentina!!

[Norman Bates]

Duff must have meant that Axl didn't write those songs he falsely said were his own.
When/if that's happened is another thing.
But it doesn't make sense any other way- it's publicly known that  Axl's written stuff for GNR and Duff must realize that as well.

[marknroses]

Duff must have meant that Axl didn't write those songs he falsely said were his own.
When/if that's happened is another thing.
But it doesn't make sense any other way- it's publicly known that? Axl's written stuff for GNR and Duff must realize that as well.

I like DUFF. I think he really adds a lot to the old GNR. I would believe that he was also the only one who was personally capable of staying on in GNR and staying true with Axl;s vision. The fact that Tommy Stinson now takes his spot shows that Axl has always envisioned the bass player to be of "punk influence", someone not afraid to say "fukk off" (Its So Easy".)

But what Duff says is out of line.  His most famous bass lines would never had come into existence without Axl tellling Slash to keep the solo for SCOM. Axl was also instrumental is making "Mr. Brownstone" a staple in GNR and keeping Izzy from throwing the song out. I bet there are other examples unknown to us, both major and minor, that Axl heard something from one of his old players and knew it would go far and take the music to another level. Axl was right. He may not have ultimately played the notes, or all the notes, but he got these other guys to play and write at another level.

For me personally, I only have to hear a song like Its So Easy, So Fine and Get In the Ring and significant parts of Nighttrain and Paradise City, as well as my personaly favorite from TSI, "You Can't put yoru arms around a memory" to know that Duff's best days as a song writer and composer are long gone. He's a tremendous bassist-player, has greater stage presence now than ever before, and has remarkably turned his life around, but he no longer has a visionary like Axl on his back getting him to play on a whole other level, or having it rubbed off from other players as well through Axl. He still has his moments like on "Fall To Pieces" and "STB", but it will never have the staying power with the fans like his stuff with GNR and with Axl.

One thing I do give him credit though is that he is the former member who best explains Axl's character weaknesses. When he talks about Axl's "yes men", he's absolutely right, for worse or for better they have lead to the problems that crippled Axl for the better part of the decade.

But I have never heard Axl taking credit for something where it was due completely elsewheres, he's had a hand in most if not every GNR hit.

 
Mark N' Roses

[Top-Hatted One]

it doesn't take a genious to find out that the sweet child o' mine intro has to be kept.

Just because Slash didn't like it doesn't mean it takes a special person to recognize it lol

[Mikkamakka]

it doesn't take a genious to find out that the sweet child o' mine intro has to be kept.

Just because Slash didn't like it doesn't mean it takes a special person to recognize it lol

To sum this thread. I think everyone agrres that

1. If Duff said that 'Axl didn't write any music', he wasn't right, 'cause Axl wrote some.

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

3. Although the credits go to the one(s) who wrote the Lyrics/Vocal Melodies/Chords, it's not hard to realize that writing SCOM chords, this simple D, C, G, C thing, (or the chords for Breakdown, Dead Horse, UTLH etc.) is not a big deal, this is the most used pattern is music writing just like the Am/G/F thing. So writing tiny chords are inferior to creating good solos and riffs for these.

4. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

[killingvector]

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

how do you know what a lot of people think?

There is a formula for the distribution of royalties, why is anyone disputing what that means? I think I know why.

. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

how about we don't. It's subjective and would cause further argument with absolutely no resolution.

[Mikkamakka]

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

how do you know what a lot of people think?

There is a formula for the distribution of royalties, why is anyone disputing what that means? I think I know why.

. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

how about we don't. It's subjective and would cause further argument with absolutely no resolution.

First. A lot of Bravo(etc.)-readers think that Axl wrote most of the songs. But if you like it better, then I change my second point to

2. Axl didn't write much music. It was Slash, Duff and Izzy who wrote the majority of the music.

Do you like it better?

Second. Have you recognized that HTGTH is a message board? A forum? Where people share their opinions and sometimes (or often) fight for their point of view? Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board? Oh, I forgot they're all in the Dead Horse section where newbies can ask 'When was Axl born?' and 'Who plays the NR solo?'.

[killingvector]

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

how do you know what a lot of people think?

There is a formula for the distribution of royalties, why is anyone disputing what that means? I think I know why.

. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

how about we don't. It's subjective and would cause further argument with absolutely no resolution.

First. A lot of Bravo(etc.)-readers think that Axl wrote most of the songs. But if you like it better, then I change my second point to

2. Axl didn't write much music. It was Slash, Duff and Izzy who wrote the majority of the music.

Do you like it better?

Second. Have you recognized that HTGTH is a message board? A forum? Where people share their opinions and sometimes (or often) fight for their point of view? Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board? Oh, I forgot they're all in the Dead Horse section where newbies can ask 'When was Axl born?' and 'Who plays the NR solo?'.

it's a pointless argument as i said b/c there will never be any resolution, only petty bickering between Axl/Slash fans.

 Aside from being involved in the recording process and witnessing who wrote what, it's impossible for us to know the exact breakdown. Axl was involved in writing a considerable amount of music through vocal and piano melodies that were converted later into instrumentation. he worked alot more on UYI than AFD as many of us would speculate. But to itemize exactly who wrote what is an impossibility; to say that "Axl didn't write as much as most think" assumes first of all what "most" people are thinking and secondly that said people think that he wrote more than he did. I don't think that you or anyone here knows enough fact for their argument to be anything more than idle speculation. It's best to concentrate on other matters.

Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board?

There is difference between arguing whether OMG is a good Guns song and who wrote what parts of each Guns songs. The former is opinion, the latter is unknowable. I am certain that there is no one on this board that knows enough truth to say that axl has not earned more than the percentage of band royalties to which he is credited.

[Mikkamakka]

it's a pointless argument as i said b/c there will never be any resolution, only petty bickering between Axl/Slash fans.

 Aside from being involved in the recording process and witnessing who wrote what, it's impossible for us to know the exact breakdown. Axl was involved in writing a considerable amount of music through vocal and piano melodies that were converted later into instrumentation. he worked alot more on UYI than AFD as many of us would speculate. But to itemize exactly who wrote what is an impossibility; to say that "Axl didn't write as much as most think" assumes first of all what "most" people are thinking and secondly that said people think that he wrote more than he did. I don't think that you or anyone here knows enough fact for their argument to be anything more than idle speculation. It's best to concentrate on other matters.

Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board?

There is difference between arguing whether OMG is a good Guns song and who wrote what parts of each Guns songs. The former is opinion, the latter is unknowable. I am certain that there is no one on this board that knows enough truth to say that axl has not earned more than the percentage of band royalties to which he is credited.

I think that arguing about who should be credited for songs he's not cretited is a much more wiser idea than arguing about OMG. Because as you said the OMG-argument is based on only opinions and 'de gustibus non est disputandum': we cannot argue about musical tastes. On side says that OMG is great, it's a rocker, or an industrial type of song. The other side says it's not GN'R, but it's great/it's not great. That's it. Why do you like this song or that? Because 'it's so great', 'I really like the guitars', 'Whoa, what an epic'...It's not an argument, is it?

Arguing about credits aren't based only on 'unknowable' things, it's based on facts (who are credited), opinions (someone thinks that this and that bass/drum/guitar/piano part is so important in the song that the musician deserves credit for it, although he didn't get) and not really knowable things (but at least we can suspect that Slash or Axl didn't write the drums for Locomotive). I think it's a much better theme than 'who is a liar' or 'Axl never had that much hair' etc., and even more interesting than the 'Anyone remembers what happened during the MSG show 2 yars ago?'-type topics.

[killingvector]

I agree with the last sentence of your post, but judging from how this thread has progressed for the first seven or so pages, all I see are Slash/Duff fans saying that Axl wrote little music and Axl fans saying he did write or direct the writing of alot of music.

Your conclusion that we could all agree that he hasn't written as much as many think is still an unfounded, unproven contention.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

how do you know what a lot of people think?

There is a formula for the distribution of royalties, why is anyone disputing what that means? I think I know why.

. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

how about we don't. It's subjective and would cause further argument with absolutely no resolution.

First. A lot of Bravo(etc.)-readers think that Axl wrote most of the songs. But if you like it better, then I change my second point to

2. Axl didn't write much music. It was Slash, Duff and Izzy who wrote the majority of the music.

Do you like it better?

Second. Have you recognized that HTGTH is a message board? A forum? Where people share their opinions and sometimes (or often) fight for their point of view? Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board? Oh, I forgot they're all in the Dead Horse section where newbies can ask 'When was Axl born?' and 'Who plays the NR solo?'.

1. No one said Axl wrote most of the music to the guns n roses songs, we are disputing that he wrote NONE like duff claims.
2. Again how do you know axl didnt write much? You were not there and slashs forumal points out that Axl wrote a lot of the music to AFD.? So again why are you even disputing this?

All duff had to say is, axl didnt write as much music as some might think, and that would have? been fine, but duff said axl wrote NONE which is a huge difference Duff knew exactally what he was saying. He could have chose to write some of the music or very little but he did neither.

Axl could have written just the music for Nov rain, and duffs comment would be a lie.
You can say that axl wrote 20% of the music on guns n roses albums but that is still a lot more than none. Because 20% is probably about how much of the music/melodies he wrote for gnr.

[insupportofaxl]

I think Slash wrote some lyrics for GN'R, not whole songs but a line or two here and there.

I remember reading that somewhere....



In my opinion, Duff says two things. I can understand one of them. He says "Axl made it an Axl thing, but it really wasn't." which I understand, it was a band. But the other "He never wrote any of the music." I just can't understand....

Maybe he should've said "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar.




/jarmo

I bet Duff did say "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar and the stupid ass press turned it around to say "Axl never wrote any of the music for Guns n' Roses" because it would capture everyone's attention and maybe provoke a rebuttal out of Axl.

Think outside of the box 

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I think Slash wrote some lyrics for GN'R, not whole songs but a line or two here and there.

I remember reading that somewhere....



In my opinion, Duff says two things. I can understand one of them. He says "Axl made it an Axl thing, but it really wasn't." which I understand, it was a band. But the other "He never wrote any of the music." I just can't understand....

Maybe he should've said "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar.




/jarmo

I bet Duff did say "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar and the stupid ass press turned it around to say "Axl never wrote any of the music for Guns n' Roses" because it would capture everyone's attention and maybe provoke a rebuttal out of Axl.

Think outside of the box?

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

[Mikkamakka]

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

If I'd be that stupid as some of you, I'd ask that 'How do you know that Axl completed vocals for more than 2 tracks? You weren't there!'. But I'm not, so I don't ask you. (On the other hand as far as I know couple means two or some)

[dave-gnfnr2k]

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

If I'd be that stupid as some of you, I'd ask that 'How do you know that Axl completed vocals for more than 2 tracks? You weren't there!'. But I'm not, so I don't ask you. (On the other hand as far as I know couple means two or some)

Do we really have to go? here again? We all know it ws a lie. I wont even point you toward the Brian May interview or the spin interview.

Its really amazing and quite comical some of you actually believe slash and duff when he comes to this kind of stuff.

[Mikkamakka]

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

If I'd be that stupid as some of you, I'd ask that 'How do you know that Axl completed vocals for more than 2 tracks? You weren't there!'. But I'm not, so I don't ask you. (On the other hand as far as I know couple means two or some)

Do we really have to go? here again? We all know it ws a lie. I wont even point you toward the Brian May interview or the spin interview.

Its really amazing and quite comical some of you actually believe slash and duff when he comes to this kind of stuff.

Where did I say that I believed it?  It was you who came again with this 'couple of songs' theory. It didn't happen that long ago, you'd have to remember...

On the other hand we are not in the position to know that how much tracks were completed by Axl.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

If I'd be that stupid as some of you, I'd ask that 'How do you know that Axl completed vocals for more than 2 tracks? You weren't there!'. But I'm not, so I don't ask you. (On the other hand as far as I know couple means two or some)

Do we really have to go? here again? We all know it ws a lie. I wont even point you toward the Brian May interview or the spin interview.

Its really amazing and quite comical some of you actually believe slash and duff when he comes to this kind of stuff.

Where did I say that I believed it?? It was you who came again with this 'couple of songs' theory. It didn't happen that long ago, you'd have to remember...

On the other hand we are not in the position to know that how much tracks were completed by Axl.

I didnt point you out, I said some of  you, Ie the people that believe duff and slash, those people know who they are and we do too.

[Crashdiet]

I'm tired of people using the word 'melody' out of context.

Melody refers to the vocal line sung by axl. Which he wrote primarily all of. Melody is the major conponent of music. Thus duff is a crackhead.

Slash did not help axl write melody/vocal lines

[ppbebe]

Yay, No one can argue with that, Crashdiet.

slash and duff when he comes to this kind of stuff

  Perhaps the people around them are no good. You know of "yes men".
Yeah, It must be those hangers-on who are putting the ideas into their heads.?