DUFF : AXL ROSE Never Wrote Any Of The GUNS N' ROSES MUSIC

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dude, he DIDNT write the music, except the shit songs like NOVEMBER RAIN.? ESTRANGED would be crap without the amazing guitar performace by Slash (something to the thanks by Axl to Slash).

Point is Axl is not a musician, except for a horrible song or two.? Who can forget the incredible acoustic guitar chords that he plays in the beginning of Dead Horse?

Where  you there in the studio when the songs were being written? If so then how do you know that.
Also what about one in a million, and breakdown? Axl also wrote the music for both of them. Slashs own formual said ax wrote some of the music, so what are you talking about? Are you goint to say slash is lying about his formual on AFD?

Also, even if axl only wrote music for ONE song that is still more than the NONE that duff claims..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Oh btw some of  you dont know your gnr history. Axl was playing guitar or learning to play guitar way before the UYI days.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Are you goint to say slash is lying about his formual on AFD?

I'm sure he won't say that, because calling Slash a liar is your job, Dave.? So I guess you'd be the one to call Slash a liar on his songwriting credit formula, so on that basis, I guess it's very possible that Axl didn't write any music on AFD.? I mean, Slash is a liar and therefore his formula must be a lie, right?

(Word to the naive: I do not truly believe that Slash's formula for songwriting credit is untrue or erroneous.? This was only satire directed at Dave.)

Answer the question because either slash or duff is lying here.? I know you dont want to answer the question because you know Duff if full of shit with his recent comments.? Saying Axl didnt write any of the music in guns n roses is laughable.

slash came up with the formual back in the afd days and the band all agreed to it including duff yet now duff is claiming axl didnt write any of the music.

I really hope duff tries to bring this up in the law suit because Axl can just bring up slashs forumal and make them look really bad.  Axl is smart by not saying anything its just adding fuel that axl can use against them in court.
But answer the question.

[blues rocker]

GUNS N' ROSES and current VELVET REVOLVER bassist Duff McKagan explained that despite perceptions to the contrary, mercurial frontman Axl Rose was not the sole creative force behind GUNS N' ROSES.

"Axl made it an Axl thing, but it really wasn't," McKagan said. "He never wrote any of the music. That was part of the reason it broke up, because we'd play shows and he'd say, 'Here's a song I wrote about . . .' and it would be a song he had nothing to do with."

Rose has yet to finish a long-promised GUNS N' ROSES album with an ever-changing lineup of musicians, even as his former bandmates have successfully launched a new project.

"I'm not knocking him," McKagan said. "We did go through a lot together, and we accomplished a lot together back then.

"But this is now. And we're having a great time. We hope to do this until we can't do it no more."


http://www.nola.com/entertainment/t-p/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1097821887180630.xml

HA!? what a load of crap!? Axl may not have written the guitar melodies (obviously), but he came up with all the vocals - which are part of the MELODY...vocal melodies are just as important as the instrumental melodies...we've heard quotes from tommy about how axl is good at getting everyone involved and pushing every member to put their best work into each song - that tells me that axl WAS a huge factor in making GnR great - it was Axl's high standards and dedication to quality that helped GnR to create such awesome songs...Axl doesn't just settle for mediocre crap...he wants to do the best he can possibly do (obviously - Chinese D has taken years, but it's because he just wants it to be awesome).? Duff has no room to talk....VR isn't half the band GnR was...if Duff wants us to take these quotes seriously, then VR should do some better songs....But, i guess the best way to settle this is for Axl to release Chinese D...if it's better than VR, then we'll know...

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dizzy, ok I will ask you this question then. Were? you in the studio while gnr was making AFD and UYI?
If not then how do you know axl didnt write any of the music on those albums?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If not then how do you know axl didnt write any of the music on those albums?

Firstly, I never mentioned the UYI albums, I only cited AFD.? Secondly, judging by the interviews given by band members over the years, Axl didn't write any music on AFD beyond vocal melodies.? Given the fact that none of the AFD songs are simple acoustic songs or piano-driven (Axl's forte), that is not an unfounded assumption.? Use your common sense.? Do you think Axl wrote the riffs for "Out ta Get Me" or "Rocket Queen"?? The vocal melodies, sure, but the riffs?? I highly doubt it.

Quote me where any of the band members said axl only wrote vocal melodys for AFD.? I have shown the proof where slash said axl wrote some of the music to AFD now all you have to do is show how they said he wrote just the vocal melodies.


Here is a slash quote about wttj

"SLASH: That's the first song I had that Axl wrote lyrics to and helped me write. I had the riff part of it"

Slash says write here, Axl helped him write WTTJ. So slash saying right here axl helped him with the music part.
Slash had the riff and axl helped him with the rest of the music on the song, isnt that what he is saying? H MMM

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Quote me where any of the band members said axl only wrote vocal melodys for AFD.? I have shown the proof where slash said axl wrote some of the music to AFD now all you have to do is show how they said he wrote just the vocal melodies.

For starters, Slash said something to the effect of....

[The music] "Sweet Child o Mine" started out as a simple, three chord song written by Izzy.? Then I was fucking around and came up with the opening, and Izzy joined in and started jamming that three-chord shit he came up with.

The music for "Sweet Child o Mine" is credited to Rose/Slash/Stradlin, so if Izzy wrote the chords, and Slash wrote the solos, that only leaves the vocal melody for Axl to have written.

Dave, just stop being an imbecile.? You know damn good and well that Axl didn't write the riffs for AFD.? It's common sense.? He's never solely credited for writing the music of any AFD song, only alongside either Slash and Izzy, the two guitar players.

There is more than just power chords (riffs) to a song (music). I am not even talking about vocal melodies.? Slash said in that quote Axl helped him to write the music. So are you still going to claim axl didnt help write the music on AFD?

Like I said were you there when they wrote the songs on AFD? If not how would you know. Slash already credited axl with help writing the music, he even said he helped him write WTTJ and he was not talking about vocals.

Even if axl did not write one note musically for AFD, he still wrote the music for the piano songs on the UYIs, thus proving duffs lying when he said axl didnt write any of the music for GNR.

[killingvector]

Duff's statement is obviously wrong. Why don't you guys just cut it out and stop pretending as if this is immediately soluable without having been in the studio bearing witness to the song creation process.

Axl wrote the piano music to November Rain. without a doubt. Ergo, Duff is wrong.

[St.heathen]

Duff is a grown man he has been there, done it, lived it.  He can say what the fuck he likes what difference does it make?  I hate it when people have to fall on the "old junkie" thing like thats part of your argument ..please.   It's has a sub-text of you have lived very little come back in 5 years time.

Do i think what he said is true? No not 100% but he wouldn't say it if there wasn't some truth in it. But on the other hand i wasn't there, he was.  The only people who really know is GN'R and the people that were around them like Robert John and Del James ect 

And like most people who have a bit of sense have already said, opinions are just that. One point of view is going to differ slightly to how another sees it.  And with time, i doubt any of us have the same opinions we had 1989-1993, at least i would hope not. 

Someone earlier said something really stupid along the lines of "he's only famous now because he is in VR" what the fuck?  You have obviously only been into GNR for about 5 minutes if you believe that.   Everybody who was on Appetite for Destruction will always be rememberd, it's a done deal.

Why should he not say what he wants? If it upsets you or me tough, that's life. He doesn't  care what you or i think of him.  It has nothing to do with your personal life. But it has with his personal life - that's the difference.  Even if he is not actually in GN'R now. In the eyes of most of the general music concious minds out there he will always be connected to Gn'R, because they were so huge and inspirational. 

We fans have a right to say fuck all really, even those of us who have been fans for a long, long time.  I have so many old mags stashed away i'm sure if i was nerdy enough i could find contradictions from everybody. But they are rock musicians, you're not meant to cling on every word and comment - let alone have to agree with it just because you like them or their music.     

[Lord Kayoss]

The longer this Velvet Revolver thing goes on the more respect I lose for the old band members 'cause it mainly seems like they're using it as a platform to campaign against Axl.? To Duff I say just play your shows, have your fun or whatever you're calling it today as opposed to yesterday and just accept that Axl is a great writer/musician/singer/frontman/cultural icon and you are a good bass player.? Time to move on, Brother.

'Don't hate him 'cause ya ain't him.'

[NickNasty]

I will confess to have only read the first and last pages of tha thread...my 2 cents:

Personally, i think Duff, Slash, et al. should just stop talking about gnr...if they've really moved on, tell the press to fuck themselves and to concentrate solely on VR and the future...quit taking potshots at Axl just cuz the press wants you to...who gives a fuck anymore? the old gnr is broken up and likely forever that way shall remain. move on. I could give 2 shits who wrote all the music...the old band was a collaborative effort, same as VR, and the nu-GNR allegedly are...if Axl gets his thumbs out of his butt and gets the record out next year, let's have a comparison between artistic/musical merit then...as for rehashing the old shit...enough.

[N.I.B]

I will confess to have only read the first and last pages of tha thread...my 2 cents:

Personally, i think Duff, Slash, et al. should just stop talking about gnr...if they've really moved on, tell the press to fuck themselves and to concentrate solely on VR and the future...quit taking potshots at Axl just cuz the press wants you to...who gives a fuck anymore? the old gnr is broken up and likely forever that way shall remain. move on. I could give 2 shits who wrote all the music...the old band was a collaborative effort, same as VR, and the nu-GNR allegedly are...if Axl gets his thumbs out of his butt and gets the record out next year, let's have a comparison between artistic/musical merit then...as for rehashing the old shit...enough.

i totally agree witht his post. all the GNR members cntributes to the songs and i cant say i belive duff 100%, i dont think hes telling the whole story.

[pilferk]

im not sayin he didnt write any music but on afd unless he hummed a riff or something i dont see where any of u have an argument.


i think Duff meant music as in guitars,bass,solo's,drums etc


so by some of you guys logic, axl started singing SCOM and that made slash play the classic openin riff?

when writing a song, a lot of times the vocal melody comes out of the music thats being played.

the band jam on a riff or a piece of music, the singer finds his key and sings over the music, so most of the time *not all of the time* but most of the time the melodies are born out of the music.


Duff is wrong sayin he didnt write any music but lets be serious for a moment, if any of u think axl had a guitar creating all of izzy and slash's riffs and solo's u obviously need to check into a very good rehab center.

lets not undermine the historic contribution of the old band because of our loyalty to axl.


im gonna tell u something right now and me being the huge axl fan i am, it pains me to say this, but the facts are the facts.

If W. Axl Rose had joined the bulletboys instead of getting with slash,izzy and co. i guarantee we wouldnt be here discussing Axl and Chinese Democracy today.

I haven't seen anyone say that Axl wrote ALL the music.  The argument is that he didn't write NONE of the music.  He wrote some.  We know he wrote some.  So Duff was lying, wrong, or the brain cells containing those memories were killed by one of those pipe hits.

[Top-Hatted One]

OK... this thing from Duff really irritated me, because at one time I thought Duff was probably a pretty cool dude, but, him saying something so bitter and angry irritated me.?

Especially, when I remember recently reading a quote from him when he was still in GNR.? I don't know the source of this quote, but it is from another GNR fansite.? It claims that Duff said this:?

"Axl, lyrically, is brilliant in my eyes. Some of the shit that goes through his head is like, WHOAH!"

Like I said, I don't know where this quote originated.?

Even if Axl never wrote the music... lyrics are just as important as the music to a song.? Without lyrics, you have an instrumental, and not many people buy albums for the instrumentals.? It's the words to a song that generally are so moving and make the fans relate to the songs.? Generally, you don't hear fans say (unless they are also musicians)? "Damn, I really related to that guitar solo."? But you do hear fans say "I could really relate to what that song was saying.? It was like it spoke directly to me."?

In interviews while he was with GNR, Duff would often express general displeasure in the fact that Axl was generally the center of attention in the band.? (Example, he would lament that people would approach him backstage and ask "Where's Axl" so often that his wife at that time had a tee-shirt printed for him that said "No I don't know where Axl is".?

This most recent statement suggests to me that his bitterness toward Axl continues.

Anyone who knows Duff personally will tell you how great a person he is. Whether it's the guys from ACS, Scott, his webmaster, Musicians I've met in Hollywood who are friends with him all talk about how sweet a guy he is.

Even nice people aren't nice all the time under every circumstance. I don't get why thats so hard to understand.

[axlrose_7]

In my opinion Duff didn't figure out the reaction he was going to get with that stupid/laughable/silly/pathetic/dumb/younameit statement.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

OK... this thing from Duff really irritated me, because at one time I thought Duff was probably a pretty cool dude, but, him saying something so bitter and angry irritated me.?

Especially, when I remember recently reading a quote from him when he was still in GNR.? I don't know the source of this quote, but it is from another GNR fansite.? It claims that Duff said this:?

"Axl, lyrically, is brilliant in my eyes. Some of the shit that goes through his head is like, WHOAH!"

Like I said, I don't know where this quote originated.?

Even if Axl never wrote the music... lyrics are just as important as the music to a song.? Without lyrics, you have an instrumental, and not many people buy albums for the instrumentals.? It's the words to a song that generally are so moving and make the fans relate to the songs.? Generally, you don't hear fans say (unless they are also musicians)? "Damn, I really related to that guitar solo."? But you do hear fans say "I could really relate to what that song was saying.? It was like it spoke directly to me."?

In interviews while he was with GNR, Duff would often express general displeasure in the fact that Axl was generally the center of attention in the band.? (Example, he would lament that people would approach him backstage and ask "Where's Axl" so often that his wife at that time had a tee-shirt printed for him that said "No I don't know where Axl is".?

This most recent statement suggests to me that his bitterness toward Axl continues.

Anyone who knows Duff personally will tell you how great a person he is. Whether it's the guys from ACS, Scott, his webmaster, Musicians I've met in Hollywood who are friends with him all talk about how sweet a guy he is.

Even nice people aren't nice all the time under every circumstance. I don't get why thats so hard to understand.

You can be v ery nice yet bitter and a liar at the same time.

[axlrose_7]

sometimes the nicest people are just hypocrites. I'm not saying Duff is.

[Top-Hatted One]

right under certain circumstances. I really like the point someone made about how we can argue about this all we want but it does not effect our personal life. It has effected their lives...very tragically

[Norman Bates]

When has Axl said something like this?
Here is people with loads of bootlegs and info, someone must know something... it sounds pretty strange.

[Falcon]

I've never been a McKagan fan, not that he's a bad guy or anything, I've just never taken him seriously.  His latest goofiness just proves not only should he not be allowed in front of a live mic, but in front of a live interviewer.

For everyone's sake Duff, stand by the drum kit, play your bass and for the love of God, don't talk.