duff claims VR is more talented than gnr

[Mikkamakka]

[quoteAxl said in a couple of interviews that he wants to release it in 2001]

Then someone named Buckethead joined the band.

spring of 2002

where/when

1. Based on an Axl-interview: "The expectations of the band turns now to the new album, "Chinese Democracy", which will be released in June."

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=37

Buckethead had been playing for Axl for almost one year when this interview took place.

2. DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=39

3. R&P: We know that Chinese Democracy will be released in June, but we wanted to know what the reasons are for taking so long before releasing the album?

Axl: We hadn't written songs or recorded for many years. There were band changes and there were many changes in the record company. blah, blah, blah. Axl didn't deny what the riporter said.

2001.01. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=38

4. On launching the tour in China:

?It?s a dream realized. A dream come true. The right time, the right place and the whole thing came about by chance. I guess it?s meant to be. This was something we could not turn down. The most exciting thing is getting the band out there to begin doing some shows and these are some big shows. It?s a way for us to play for a lot of people and have a lot of fun. It?s also a warm up so we can have an understanding of how to start our Fall tour. And that?s a warm up for the Spring tour. This thing is starting now and much like Use Your Illusions that went for two and a half years, this thing is going to go off and on for the next two or three years and we?ll see how it goes. We?re really looking forward to seeing all the different people in the different countries and this is a great opportunity.?
(...)Guns N? Roses will go back into the studio immediately following the aforementioned dates to put the final touches on the forthcoming ?Chinese Democracy? album. (...) It feels right, the timing, and a lot of things. We?ve sorted it down to what songs are on the record. What the sequence of the songs is. The album cover art is ready.

2002. 08. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82

5. But it will come out and we will, we'll go back, we'll do some more recording and then we'll start the American leg of the tour... And see how it goes from there.

2002 VMA http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=47

6. Ditch: You've really, you've... It sounds like really nurtured relationships with these guys, and the new disc "Chinese Democracy". Umm, do you have any idea when the fruits of those labours will come to harvest?

Axl: Uhh, sometime during the next year.

2002.11. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=50

+1. in Rio, I think. Axl said sg like 'See you next summer with a bunch of new songs' (not to mention Axl's 1996 press release in which he said the new album would be out in 1997)

It's obvious that Axl always wants to release the album, but when it'd be the time he puts off the date. Simple as that. On the other hand maybe we'd have CD if the 'World Tour' didn't end early for some reasons. And the bandmembers are saying bullshit when they always tell a supposed release date (month), or, which is more likely, they get an info from Axl and then the Big Bossman changes his mind again. Hell, I've never thought that 3 and a half year after Rio, after Axl told the fans another time that 'the last tour was the end of somehing, now this is the beginning of something new", I didn't know he might means it's the beginning of another 10 years silence...

[mikegiuliana]

I feel the bottom line is if axl already had two albums worth of material which he has mentioned in interviews before 2002 he should have just released one shortly after he realised bucket was no longer with the group.. He could have toured on that album with one in the wings for another year and finished the third (which seems to be the one we always hear about) as they went along and this...

It's hard to believe one album which was recorded last is holding everything up, seems a bit odd.... It's my opinion, even if he originally wanted to do three albums over three years or something he should have changed plans once he knew buckethead was not going to be contributing to the curent installment anymore..

Cut your losses and release the material you've had for all these years, there's always time to do more.. Tons of bands give frequent albums( 2 yrs), plus they're doing this with world tours.. New gnr has had nothing but free time to create.

[Dizzy]

I have never once heard slash or duff ever say axl was not willing to work on one of their songs.
If its true please give me a quote.

I showed Axl some of the material I'd been writing.? He looked at it and said "I'm not playing this shit."? The stuff he was into, I just couldn't understand.? So I went with the rest of the guys and did the Snakepit album.? Then Axl comes to me and asks for the material back.? I said "dude, that material's gone, and if I remember correctly, I was turned down flat."

--Slash

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I have never once heard slash or duff ever say axl was not willing to work on one of their songs.
If its true please give me a quote.

I showed Axl some of the material I'd been writing.? He looked at it and said "I'm not playing this shit."? The stuff he was into, I just couldn't understand.? So I went with the rest of the guys and did the Snakepit album.? Then Axl comes to me and asks for the material back.? I said "dude, that material's gone, and if I remember correctly, I was turned down flat.

--Slash

That is according to slash.
Axl said on those same songs, Axl asked slash to work on them some more and to fix them up to make them better, and slash refused so axl said he cant use them. 

[Booker Floyd]

That is according to slash.

 

Thats what you asked for, correct?

[Dizzy]

That is according to slash.
Axl said on those same songs, Axl asked slash to work on them some more and to fix them up to make them better, and slash refused so axl said he cant use them.?

Okay Dave, it's riddle time.? Read your original statement, then read my answer, and riddle me this Batman...

Riddle number one.? What did Davie ask for the first time?

(I don't know.? What?)

Davie said he never heard Slash or Duff say Axl wouldn't work on their songs, and that he wanted to see a quote from Slash or Duff stating otherwise.


Riddle number two.? What did Dizzy tell dear ol' Davie?

(I don't know.? What?)

That Slash did indeed say Axl wouldn't work on his songs, and Dizzy did indeed provide a quote that Dave asked for.


Riddle number three.? How did Davie respond to that now that he had the exact answer that he asked for?

(I don't know.? How?)

Once Davie had the answer, he just changed the damn question.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Well since slash is a known liar, he just bended the truth just a bit.
And its funny he said axl asked about the songs later, which means what? He wanted to use them and was willing to work on his songs, he just wanted slash to fix them up more but slash refused so axl said he can't unless slash fixed them up.? so again slash is full of shit. He cant even tell the whole truth

[Naupis]

Well since slash is a known liar

Axl has lied to us more times than we should ever care to get into. Neither of them would know the truth if it hit them square in the face. To sit here and try and argue based on what either of them have said is ridiculous as both of them have/will continue to lie through their teeth to advance whatever personal agenda they may have.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Well since slash is a known liar

Axl has lied to us more times than we should ever care to get into. Neither of them would know the truth if it hit them square in the face. To sit here and try and argue based on what either of them have said is ridiculous as both of them have/will continue to lie through their teeth to advance whatever personal agenda they may have.

What has axl lied about? And dont say about when CD will be out because that is not lying.  Slash has always changed his story the old band and what happened while axls story has always been pretty much the same.

[Naupis]

He has lied about the entire CD project, from promised tour dates to telling fans we should see something within X amount of time, that is all par for the course. He works his stories around things that are convient for him. Slash does the same thing. Bending the truth is a character flaw, and they are both miserably guilty. Where you seperate the 2 and say its OK when Axl has bent the truth but not Slash, I look at the fact that both are equally capable of lying and have both done so in the past.

[coolman78SLASH]

A lot of you guys here, just base your opinion on how Axl feels about certain issues at any given time..  When BH was in the band: "oh he is so cool, much better than Slash..bla bla", then when BH leaves, and Axl gets angry: "oh, BH is such an asshole, I never liked him anyway..bla bla" , I really hope Slash and Axl works things out and do something together.. It's a possebilety that many of you really don't want to think about..  But if they do, I'm really curious about your reactions.. If Axl goes out in the media and says something like: "Slash and I are friends again.. We are working on a new album, and we are really happy to be in a band together again" 90% of you guys would be like: "oooh I loooove Slash, he is soooo right for GnR bla bla bal.." Face it: None of us would problably ever had heard about neither Axl or Slash, if it wasen't for the two of them together with Duff,Izzy and Steven..  Show some respect for God's sake ! Don't make so harsh comments about past or present bandmambers.. Just because you are frustrated because you have been waiting for ages for a new album, dosen't make it better if you leave it out on the other members, does it?

[Sterlingdog]

I don't see why we have to call either Axl or Slash liars, at least not about the incident you guys were talking about, with the songs.  Its human nature to tell a story in a way that makes you look as good as possible.  They both have said essentially the same thing, Slash wanted to do certain songs he had written.  Axl didn't like them.  Those songs eventually became the Slash's snakepit album. 

As far as who was the biggest asshole in the situation, I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle. 

[dave-gnfnr2k]

He has lied about the entire CD project, from promised tour dates to telling fans we should see something within X amount of time, that is all par for the course. He works his stories around things that are convient for him. Slash does the same thing. Bending the truth is a character flaw, and they are both miserably guilty. Where you seperate the 2 and say its OK when Axl has bent the truth but not Slash, I look at the fact that both are equally capable of lying and have both done so in the past.

How many times do i have to say, guessing a release date is not lying. You cant lie about the future just the past.  I dont know what is so hard to understand about this, and then people like you wonder why axl wont give his best guess when Cd might be out because people like you turn it around and claims he lies. That is not a lie. Its like me saying, oh I plan on going to NY this weekend, then something happens so I dont go then you calling me a liar because I didnt go. How is that lying. A lie would be me saying I went to NY last weekend when in fact I did not, see the difference?

The only lies people can claim axl has made are about this album and when its coming out, but like i said you cant lie about the future or what you plan on doing only what already happened, and that is what slash is always lying about, things that happened in the past,, so try again and give me a real reason how axl has lied.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

A lot of you guys here, just base your opinion on how Axl feels about certain issues at any given time..? When BH was in the band: "oh he is so cool, much better than Slash..bla bla", then when BH leaves, and Axl gets angry: "oh, BH is such an asshole, I never liked him anyway..bla bla" , I really hope Slash and Axl works things out and do something together.. It's a possebilety that many of you really don't want to think about..? But if they do, I'm really curious about your reactions.. If Axl goes out in the media and says something like: "Slash and I are friends again.. We are working on a new album, and we are really happy to be in a band together again" 90% of you guys would be like: "oooh I loooove Slash, he is soooo right for GnR bla bla bal.." Face it: None of us would problably ever had heard about neither Axl or Slash, if it wasen't for the two of them together with Duff,Izzy and Steven..? Show some respect for God's sake ! Don't make so harsh comments about past or present bandmambers.. Just because you are frustrated because you have been waiting for ages for a new album, dosen't make it better if you leave it out on the other members, does it?

Axl was pissed that BH quit the band when things were finally falling into place. They had RIR4 just ahead and probably the album dropping soon after that. You can have a great working relationship but if someone just up and quits you are going to be upset with them. 

As for slash and axl working together again, that will never happen so dont hold  your breath.

[jrs2001_99]

How do you know that Axl isn't lying about the past and Slash is? I know you're think this because "Slash is always changing his story", but I want to see some cold hard evidence. I mean proper quotes, not taken out of context either.

Remember Axl's big rant against the press in Get in the Ring, about how the press were constantly twisting and misinterpreting everything that everyone in the band said about anything? Well nothing has changed since then, just because Slash is no longer in GNR it doesn't mean that the press aren't still up to their usual tricks.

I mean, it really doesn't matter a fuck, because at the end of the day we're all here to celebrate the great music that the two of them contributed towards, but quit painting one side as a competely innocent victim here. Axl isn't totally to blame for anything that went wrong in the past, and Slash isn't totally to blame either. These guys lived in each others' pockets for nearly 3 years during the Illusions tour; just like living with the same person for 3 years, there are bound to be gripes on either side about stuff. When this is coupled with the BIG pressure the band was under to maintain the aura they had achieved with UYI, it's bound to blow any working relationship apart. Everyone paints these guys as some sort of demi-god, superhuman rockstars, but they are only human like the rest of us.

I'm not "sticking up" for any particular "side" here, because it isn't necessary. Slash and Axl had a great working relationship that just blew apart under the pressure, and that's all there is to it. Like has been said before in this thread, there are two sides to every story, and then there is the truth.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

How do you know that Axl isn't lying about the past and Slash is? I know you're think this because "Slash is always changing his story", but I want to see some cold hard evidence. I mean proper quotes, not taken out of context either.

Remember Axl's big rant against the press in Get in the Ring, about how the press were constantly twisting and misinterpreting everything that everyone in the band said about anything? Well nothing has changed since then, just because Slash is no longer in GNR it doesn't mean that the press aren't still up to their usual tricks.

I mean, it really doesn't matter a fuck, because at the end of the day we're all here to celebrate the great music that the two of them contributed towards, but quit painting one side as a competely innocent victim here. Axl isn't totally to blame for anything that went wrong in the past, and Slash isn't totally to blame either. These guys lived in each others' pockets for nearly 3 years during the Illusions tour; just like living with the same person for 3 years, there are bound to be gripes on either side about stuff. When this is coupled with the BIG pressure the band was under to maintain the aura they had achieved with UYI, it's bound to blow any working relationship apart. Everyone paints these guys as some sort of demi-god, superhuman rockstars, but they are only human like the rest of us.

I'm not "sticking up" for any particular "side" here, because it isn't necessary. Slash and Axl had a great working relationship that just blew apart under the pressure, and that's all there is to it. Like has been said before in this thread, there are two sides to every story, and then there is the truth.

Its easy, slashs stories about the old band are ever changing, his views on what happened change pretty  everytime he talks but  axls stories about the old band have always remain pretty much consistant. 

Just look at the horn section and back up singers. Slash on an old interview (UYI tour) admited it was his idea yet on BTM he basically said it was Axls idea.  There are a bunch of others im not going to get into but you get the idea.

[Dizzy]

Dave,

Slash has not changed his story once.? Not once.? He's given various reasons for leaving the band, but they're remained the same.? Just because he has more than one reason for leaving the band does not mean he's "changed his story".? Every time Slash has been asked why he left the band, he says that he didn't want to wait around, and/or that there were musical differences.? That's pretty much it.? Just because he doesn't explain the circumstances in complete detail every single time doesn't mean he's lying, and it doesn't mean he's changed his story.

And Dave, given the fact that you contradict yourself quite frequently around here, I guess that makes you a liar too.? Remember the "Sebastian Bach would make the album suck" and then "oh no, I never said that" debate?

And Axl has spoken so much bullshit that he can't be trusted in the slightest.? Consider these comments made by the ever-so-truthful Mr. Rose....

Everybody in the [old] band hated everybody else, except for me. -- Axl

Oh yeah, that a REALLY truthful statement, isn't it?? Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven, Matt Sorum....yeah they all hated each other didn't they?? That's why ALL OF THEM are either in bands together, jam together, or remain in contact with one another to this day.? Except for good ol' Axl, the only one who allegedly didn't hate everybody else.

GOOD ONE AXL!? ?

Here's another great comedic line from Axl (paraphrased)...

Certain former members are using the Guns N Roses name without releasing quality material to cash in on their current careers.? -- Axl, Vegas, December 29, 2001

Oh yes, Axl, all the former GNR members are the ones using the GNR name for their solo/current projects aren't they?? They're the ones playing entire sets of old GNR songs without releasing any new material, aren't they?? ?

ANOTHER GOOD ONE, AXL!? ?

The only way the latter statement could be even slightly truthful is if it were applied to Steven Adler for his Adler's Appetite tour of largely GNR covers.? However, Adler's Appetite did not exist at that time, making Axl's statement a complete load of hypocritical bullshit.  Just because Axl's story is "consistent" DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE.

And those are just a couple examples of Axl's ridiculously absurd lies.? Look around and you'll find more.? And I read your comments above.? It's funny how whenever Axl says something that's proven untrue, such as release dates and promised touring, you always write it off as "well, plans changed".? Ever notice that with Axl, plans always have a funny way of changing?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dizzy you crack me up sometimes, a few months ago we had a whole post full of all the times slash has changed his story yet you are not claiming he has never changed it once? That is truely sad.? I gave you one example about the horn section and back up singers but I guess in your eyes that is not a lie right?

And Dizzy my statement about Bach is true, I said that if he was on the album it would not have done well because people would have viewed the band as a 80s retread band, I have always said that and I was one of the first people to suggest they should look at Scott when a lot of people on this board were hard for Bach.

Dont put words in my mouth or try to because you are not smart enough to do so.

As for Axl saying "Certain former members are using the Guns N Roses name without releasing quality material to cash in on their current careers.? -- Axl, Vegas, December 29, 2001"

That is 100% true, they quit guns n roses yet still milk the name for everything its worth.

As for your statment
"Oh yes, Axl, all the former GNR members are the ones using the GNR name for their solo/current projects aren't they?? They're the ones playing entire sets of old GNR songs without releasing any new material, aren't they?? ?

ANOTHER GOOD ONE, AXL!? ?"

What name is axl using? The name guns n roses, is that not correct? So of coarse he is going to play guns n roses songs.? Gee I guess axl is not allowed in your eyes to play guns n roses songs when he is in the band called guns n roses.

GOOD ONE DIZZY?

I have failed to see how anything? what axl said in these statements are lies.
Do you even know what a lie is?

As for axl saying the only person everyone liked in the band was him being a lie, well first when did he make that statement? And were you there to prove or disprove that statement?

They can all say one thing to his face then talk shit behind his back, no?

I dont think so.

So try again Dizzy.

[Naupis]

So in his buckethead fax(and committing to Rio and not showing up is a lie, regardless of circumstance...he knew Bucket was out of the band and should have done something about it. There has to be some accountability at the head of an organization) when he says we'd hear something in a couple of months thats not a lie....just a change in plans? Or how about we play on the semantics of it and you defend that there is no definition to how many a couple is. Or how about telling the fans at the end of a concert see you all next summer....and nothing ever happens? That is just a change in plans too isn't it? Or saying you are going to play a concert in Vancouver to start your tour....and not showing up? That was just a change in plans too wasn't it? Same thing as in Philly...when you tell the fans you'll be there and don't come....thats not a lie....its a change in plans isn't it. Or in your fax when you tell everyone Slash is gone and that we will see a new album the next year? The fact it doesn't happen doesn't constitute a mistruth because its in the future right?

[Naupis]

Ok then.....if he's not a liar then he is definitely a "Flip-Flopper." Given the region of the country you're from Dave that is something you should understand better than any of us. Although at times it feels like we're arguing with George Bush because no matter how many other people on the board tell you something and back it up with defined instances you still can't see the light. Kind of like no matter how many times the weapons inspectors tell W there were no weapons in Iraq he keeps on telling us it doesn't matter because he doesn't deal in fact. It seems kind of like how you interact with your Axl worship, no matter how many other people show you times Axl has lied to us you spin it, find a way to try and justify it and write it off as if it didn't really happen.