duff claims VR is more talented than gnr

[dave-gnfnr2k]

we wont know how well this new gnr has gelled until he hear all of Cd, but if tommys contrabution is anything like he did on his solo stuff, then wow

[Naupis]

I disagree in part.  Tommy is more talented than Duff. Tommys solo work is by far better than Duffs solo work.
This bad was much stronger with BH on co lead but they are still pretty damn good without him.
I think robins talent is really going to shine when we hear his work on CD.  His blues solo is awesome IMO.

Call me when Tommy, Robin, or any of the other new guys write anything that touches SCOM, NV, PC, Estranged, Jungle or any other epic song Slash and Duff contributed to writing. So what if you don't think Duff's solo work is as good as Tommy, again, when his band releases songs that are better or more lasting than the aforementioned then I will come on here and eat crow.

This is the concept that I am not sure to this day you understand. Snakepit sucked, Duff's band sucked.....but you put them, Axl, Izzy and a drummer in the room and you get those epic songs. With the old guns they performed as a the sum of their parts, not individuals. You may think that so and so is better but who cares when it was Duff who played the Bass on all your favorite songs. It wasn't tommy or bucket or robin or anyone else you tout as being more talented.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

The reason duff and slash's work was so great in gnr is because Axl pushed them to be their best. If slash had his way that SCOM riff never would have been developed. slash also hated working on estranged.

So if axl can pull that stuff out of them, i cant wait to see what axl can push tommy, robin and bh to do.

[Naupis]

That's cool how you sat in the sessions to see how Axl was able to pull all that stuff out of Slash and Duff. So what if Slash didn't like playing Estranged, didn't mean he didn't right all the guitar stuff you lust about, he just got bored because the song was so long. To give Axl credit for that is ridiculous. SCOM, so what if he was screwing around, it was still his genius that came up with it. I think you give Axl much to much credit for all that band did. Out of all 70 or so songs the band released Slash, Duff and Axl played on all of them. You can say it is his doing those songs are great till the cows come home, but that is completely absurd. That is like saying Slash is responsible for Axl singing the way he does because he pulled it out of him with his great guitar riffs and without them the songs would be shit. This "Axl s the reason the songs were the way they were" mentality is a little dillusional.

I think it just eats at you you can't somehow erase Slash/Duff from those tracks because admitting you love those songs means admitting you love them for their music as well and I know that is very hard for complete unabridaled Axl lovers to do. So to diminsh their impact on the song you just chalk it up to Axl insturcting them how to play as your saving face for admitting you love Slash and Duff because they played the guitar parts on all your favorite songs. When you are sitting there fantasizing about Estranged rather than admitting you love Slash for his riffs in the song you think "Thank God for Axl because without him I wouldn't have this." Not, "man, without Slash this song wouldn't be half as good as it is." The whole argument is just not rational.

[Falcon]

The reason duff and slash's work was so great in gnr is because Axl pushed them to be their best. If slash had his way that SCOM riff never would have been developed. slash also hated working on estranged.

This is where the discussion goes downhill.  I don't disagree that every artist needs a creative foil, a dynamic with a musical soul mate if you will....but...

We could also conclude Axl's been lost without without Slash, based on their output and success outside of their own partnership.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

The reason duff and slash's work was so great in gnr is because Axl pushed them to be their best. If slash had his way that SCOM riff never would have been developed. slash also hated working on estranged.

This is where the discussion goes downhill.? I don't disagree that every artist needs a creative foil, a dynamic with a musical soul mate if you will....but...

We could also conclude Axl's been lost without without Slash, based on their output and success outside of their own partnership.

We wont know that until CD comes out but if it never comes out, then you would be correct.

[younggunner]

We could also conclude Axl's been lost without without Slash, based on their output and success outside of their own partnership.

That will be answered once we hear CD

[Naupis]

That will be answered once we hear CD

No it won't, at least not on this board. Proof of that can be seen on the varying opinions of OMG or any other new song released. I don't think any of them touch old GNR on their best days. They're good songs, but nothing we haven't heard before formula wise out of Axl. Other peple think some of the new songs are among the best songs ever written by the brand name Gun's n' Roses. That disparity is not going to go away strictly because we get a new album.
 
We can already tell you ahead of time the people on this board who will say the album sucks and is wildly overproduced and those who will say it is better than anything they have ever done and the new band has burried the old and the album hasn't even been released yet.

This board has turned into the U.S. political structure, two wildely polarized sides who refuse to admit as a matter of principal that maybe the other side is right as it will then reinforce the fact they had wasted 7-8 years on this board arguing for something that didn't turn out to be true. No one is going to do that regardless of what that album sounds like. Good or Bad.

[Falcon]

That will be answered once we hear CD

Yep.  But until then...

[D]

awesome analogy naupis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

only thing on that one post naupis, it isnt that axl is the reason that slash created great solo's but it is possible axl maximized slash's potential by not lettin slash settle for good enough.

some of the contraband solos sound like good enough, whereas axl wouldve made him do it over and over till it was a beast of a solo.

u can use a sports analogy here, its the same reason a player can do horrible on one team and get traded and become a superstar on another team if the coach knows how to motivate and push his buttons.

i listen to the blues and the solo is good but i can only imagine a slash like NR,estranged solo over top of it, thats the only thing stoppin the blues from being classic, the lyrics are some of the finest ever written by axl but its missin that memorable solo, robins is good but not classic.

slash admitted himself CB was recorded in what 2 weeks? so yeah for 2 weeks the solo's are good but imagine if he had really took his time like he had to with axl?

[Booker Floyd]

some of the contraband solos sound like good enough, whereas axl wouldve made him do it over and over till it was a beast of a solo.

How do you know this was ever the case?

slash admitted himself CB was recorded in what 2 weeks? so yeah for 2 weeks the solo's are good but imagine if he had really took his time like he had to with axl?

Yeah, and both Illusions were recorded in 30 days....LIES in a day.....  

[D]

30 days to do the illusions? come on dude!

maybe slash intentionally dulled down his style some to fit into the new bands sound?

not dulled down in a bad way but to evolve and update the more modern flavor of VR.


if axl didnt push slash then why would slash quit? if slash was free to play whatever he wanted i dont think there wouldve ever been any problems.

Remember axl talkin bout how he was wantin to make a slash record but slash refused to work

how come people dont hold that against slash and constantly make axl out to be the dickhead?

if axl was gonna make a slash record then what was the problem?

[Naupis]

Scott's style is not to do those epic type songs. Find me one song on CB where a minute long Estranged /NV solo would fit within the context of what the band was trying to do. Doesn't mean he isn't capable of more, its just not the sound their band was going for. I guarantee if you put a gun to Slash's head he could easily come up with a huge epic riff because he makes riffs, its what he does. He didn't do it on CB because it wasn't called for, and it would have seemed out of place given where the band went musically. His solos are shorter and more streamlined. I like the epic stuff more, but I can at least see it wasn't a lack of talent or guidance that produced shorter solos on this album, but the musical tastes and direction of the band.

Besides....what does he really have to prove? 50 years from now they will still be playing Jungle, NR, SCOM and PC and it will always be his guitar on those songs and he will still be an icon. He tried something different on CB, nothing gained nothing lost. I hardly think though he suddenly forgot how to do epic riffs because Axl wasn't in the room playing wet nurse for him.

[Booker Floyd]

30 days to do the illusions? come on dude!

"We did the Use Your Illusions, which was a double record, we did the basic tracks for that in 30 days, and it was 30 tracks.  Put the guitar solos on and it was done." - Slash

And its well-known that the second side to LIES was done in a day.

So time wasnt really the factor.  Slash has said that once he comes up with a solo, he goes over it a few times and it rarely changes.  He gets what he wants quickly.

if axl didnt push slash then why would slash quit? if slash was free to play whatever he wanted i dont think there wouldve ever been any problems.

Its hardly as simple as that...

Remember axl talkin bout how he was wantin to make a slash record but slash refused to work

Yeah...never quite understood that.  I dont recall saying Slash refused to work...but that when something "worked" Slash would back away from it.  Now the syntax of Axls written endeavors is often confusing and bizarre, but this is a concept that could have benefited from some explaining.  What does it mean?  Slash would come up with a great riff, and then go, "Nope...this is too good"?

And when Axl says "Slash says he didnt want to work that hard," what does that mean?  Because history shows that Slash is anything but lazy.  While Axls the one not releasing anything, missing shows and cancelling tours...Slash was always doing something.  So laziness isnt very plausible. 

I find it hard to believe that Axl really wanted to make a Slash record. 

[D]

I find everything very weird, cause u know really on behind the music, slash didnt really give a clear cut answer either.

personally i think they just got burnt out on each other, its happened to many great bands.

I think they spent way too much time on the road for the illusions, they needed a break to get away from one another, not dive right back in the studio

i think bein burnt out caused some tension which caused some conflicts that both axl and slash were to stubborn to work out.

I still believe if the old band could get in a room for 2 hours and be moderated they would work out their differences.

im hoping that if axl ever does release CD that some of these questions will be answered a little more clearly, but then it goes into a presidential type debate where u have to choose a side on who to believe.


has axl ever gave his side as to why the old members left?

[yagami1gnr]

That will be answered once we hear CD

No it won't, at least not on this board. Proof of that can be seen on the varying opinions of OMG or any other new song released. I don't think any of them touch old GNR on their best days. They're good songs, but nothing we haven't heard before formula wise out of Axl. Other peple think some of the new songs are among the best songs ever written by the brand name Gun's n' Roses. That disparity is not going to go away strictly because we get a new album.
 
We can already tell you ahead of time the people on this board who will say the album sucks and is wildly overproduced and those who will say it is better than anything they have ever done and the new band has burried the old and the album hasn't even been released yet.

This board has turned into the U.S. political structure, two wildely polarized sides who refuse to admit as a matter of principal that maybe the other side is right as it will then reinforce the fact they had wasted 7-8 years on this board arguing for something that didn't turn out to be true. No one is going to do that regardless of what that album sounds like. Good or Bad.

Dude, you forgot the people that appreciate the old band, but wants to give this new band an opportunity. Besides, it's a matter of opinion.   

[yagami1gnr]

some of the contraband solos sound like good enough, whereas axl wouldve made him do it over and over till it was a beast of a solo.

How do you know this was ever the case?

 

How do you know it wasn't.

[mikegiuliana]

Then you might be on the wrrng board. Gnr will have all out rockers as well as other types of songs. It iwll be  amelting pot so they say....

btw omg is an awesome song, as is silk worms...I htink Rhiad as a whole is the weakest, but i do like the guitars

I'm on the wrong board because I don't like certain part's of gnr's music?? Is there no fans that prefered the afd/lies era? He desides to slip in industrial rock, so I should just love it?? Gnr was about something, there was a certain sound and style to their music.. He just decides to change the sound of the group, it won't be everyone's favorite.. Look at groups like aerosmith, and  metallica, I'm sure their older fans are more into their early stuff, everyone has a right to like a certain era and style and be a fan..

Silkworms is absolute shit, one of the worst songs I've heard... If I wanted industrial, I would have been a prodigy fan...

[fixintodie]

The bottom line is duff is full of shit, and deserves to become a bigger laughing stock than Axl is for a bullshit laughable statement like this. VR is more talented than GN'R is/was. Bullshit. Let's put it to the general public. I'm thinking anyone with friggin ears would say GNR. If VR are more talented than GNR, lets see some proof. Cause there sure as hell isn't any on Contraband, and there wasn't any in Manchester.

[mikegiuliana]

The bottom line is duff is full of shit, and deserves to become a bigger laughing stock than Axl is for a bullshit laughable statement like this. VR is more talented than GN'R is/was. Bullshit. Let's put it to the general public. I'm thinking anyone with friggin ears would say GNR. If VR are more talented than GNR, lets see some proof. Cause there sure as hell isn't any on Contraband, and there wasn't any in Manchester.

I don't believe they're better, just better musicians like I feel he was saying aka being clean..

As for the general public, you'll be suprised how many people don't like gnr period.. I remember the argumetns in hH.S. about nirvana compared to gnr, etc etc. We love gnr, but there are tons of people that aren't into axl' voice.. I've also been bringing contraband to the gym I got to, and people have asked me about the music because they liked it..

I think everyone is going overboard with duff's stamtent, so glad tommy is planning for world domination by spring.. It's just words hyping their bands