why are scotts song on contaband not self indulgent but Axls on the UYIs and ..

[dave-gnfnr2k]

a degree in psych? dare i ask from where. your interpretations of maladaptive behavior are severly lacking (and yes, this IS on topic) and, with your degree you should be aware that treatment of illness through psychopharmacology is not a cure all and is often a battle to find the right dosage, the right combination of meds, etc... and often that is not a cure all either.?

i really don't think you know what you are talking about on this topic so perhaps you should stick to simply defending Axl without trying to make qualitative statements about mental health.?
perhaps others on the board who suffer from these illnesses can back me up on this.

So tell me this then, what is to blame for scott doing drugs and being an alcholic?
I am curious, do you know any one that is bi polar?
I know THREE people that are, and none of them are addicts or aloholics.
so what are you bashing your opinions on?
And like I said I was never the one who started this which is worse, so point your finger at top hatted one.

And I am not talking about axls mental health, I am talking about people being BiPolar in general, since someone claimed that scott is bi polar.

I love how other people bring up this stuff yet people like you and booker blame me.
 

[badgirl]

well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about..

to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers.

i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.?

you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then!


ETA: so you know three whole people AND have a psych degree!!!  shit man, i won't question your expertise on this matter again. and, for the record, of fucking course i know bi-polar people. 

and booker and i are targeting YOU with our comments because you are carrying the flame for someone else's argument. and it matters not who started it, you have made your points clear on the matter and it is those points we are in conflict with.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about..

to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers.

i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.?

you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then!

There you go again thinking you are smart enough to speak for other people and put words in their mouth by claiming things that were never said? . Also, I'd say I know much more what I am talking about than you.? Again how many people do you know that are bi polar?? I would say none since you dodged the question.

Oh so now I am trying to qualify the behavior of strangers? That is funny, havent people been doing this to axl since the tour ended in dec of 2002? Ah again its ok  when people question axls behavior but God Forbid someone questions Scott or even slashs behavior, Here is that double standard again that certain people have on this board. But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please.

These last few rants but you, booker and tomass just prove what this thread is all about.
Thank you for making my point for me.

[badgirl]

can you read? that was a prereq for your psych degree, was it not?

i'll itemize this for you so you don't get lost.

1. please explain what words i am putting into anyone's mouth. you weren't clear on that one.
2. i am not going to quantify how many bi-polar people i know because that is retarded. suffice it to say that i know a bunch, and have known a bunch, and not just bi-polar people. i know people who are afflicted from all sorts of mental emotional disorders. some seeking treatment, some not. but my friendship with these people hardly makes me "know more than you". i know more than you because i am smarter than you. 
3. i don't know what "people" have been doing regarding Axl's behavior, i know what I have been doing. while i find Axl psychologically fascinating, i don't and have not pretended to know his mind or explain his decisions. so, save the "hypocrisies" argument for someone it applies to (i.e. not me). unless, of course, you can point me to an example of MY "hypocrisies". i don't speak for anyone on this board besides myself so please don't address your points on MY argument to include other people's thoughts.

[badgirl]

But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please.

Do you know what "qualify" means? it means you were trying to add a value to behavior (addiction) to make the point that drug use was not as bad as child abuse. 
that's what that means.

[oldleadbelly]

This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott.  Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression.  At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated.  Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak.  He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers.  Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression.  Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar.  Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways.  Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion.  Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between.  For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them.  Is this wise?  That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story.  He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten.

[badgirl]

This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott.? Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression.? At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated.? Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak.? He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers.? Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression.? Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar.? Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways.? Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion.? Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between.? For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them.? Is this wise?? That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story.? He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten.

hmmmm.. so some people DO use illegal drugs to self-medicate... i think someone here mentioned that. 
but leadbelly, unless you have three friends with depression, i am not sure you are qualified to speak intelligently on this topic. 
but in all seriousness, i had heard bits and pieces about the depths of scott's problems. 

on a related side-note, one of my best friends is b-polar (among other things) and she can't seem to find a medication that works for her. she has been on just about everything (save for lithium, which i don't think would be the worst idea) and is still a mess. suggesting that you can simply "take meds" for any disorder is assinine in its ignorance.

[oldleadbelly]

This is a bit beyond the point, but it might shed some light on Scott.? Scott, in his teen years, battled clinical depression.? At the time his doctor did not diagnose him correctly, so he was left unmedicated.? Scott turned to alcohol and cocaine because they helped him to numb the pain, so to speak.? He was introduced to heroin during STP's Purple tour by Gibby Haines of Butthole Surfers.? Scott discovered that heroin did the trick as far as easing his depression.? Only after he was originally busted, in 94 or 95 I believe, was he diagnosed as being bi-polar.? Now, as you should know dave (having a psych degree), bi-polar medications effect different people in different ways.? Scott claims that when he is on them they completely numb him to human emotion.? Not only does it wipe out his manic and depressed states, but also everything in between.? For this reason, Scott has chosen in the past not to take them.? Is this wise?? That is not for anyone but Scott to judge, but that is the story.? He also dealt with his brother, and best friend, being hit by a truck and killed when he was about ten.

hmmmm.. so some people DO use illegal drugs to self-medicate... i think someone here mentioned that.?
but leadbelly, unless you have three friends with depression, i am not sure you are qualified to speak intelligently on this topic.?
but in all seriousness, i had heard bits and pieces about the depths of scott's problems.?

on a related side-note, one of my best friends is b-polar (among other things) and she can't seem to find a medication that works for her. she has been on just about everything (save for lithium, which i don't think would be the worst idea) and is still a mess. suggesting that you can simply "take meds" for any disorder is assinine in its ignorance.

Indeed

[Sukie]

Let's get back on topic.  If you want to call each other out, do it by pm. 

[tomass74]

well good, as long as you submit that you have no clue as to what you are talking about..

to answer your question, how the fuck should i know why Scott became a junkie. Unlike you, i don't pretend to explain and qualify the behavior of relative strangers.

i also wasn't aware that "blame" becomes the central issue in the debate over which affliction is "worse". how about you concede that its pretty fucked up to try and rate other people's emotional hell just so you can make some non-existent point shrouded in Axl hero worship. we know you love him Dave.?

you should try making yourself a bit less predictable. you need to start making threads about everyone's "hypocrisies" surrounding Izzy's dog. you'll really have us all then!

There you go again thinking you are smart enough to speak for other people and put words in their mouth by claiming things that were never said? . Also, I'd say I know much more what I am talking about than you.? Again how many people do you know that are bi polar?? I would say none since you dodged the question.

Oh so now I am trying to qualify the behavior of strangers? That is funny, havent people been doing this to axl since the tour ended in dec of 2002? Ah again its ok? when people question axls behavior but God Forbid someone questions Scott or even slashs behavior, Here is that double standard again that certain people have on this board. But I dont know where I ever tried to qualify anyones behavior, would you point that out to me please.

These last few rants but you, booker and tomass just prove what this thread is all about.
Thank you for making my point for me.

Ok Mr. I am Sigmund Freud and I have a psyche degree and I work at footlocker,

Can you enlighten me on something? What the fuck was the point of this thread. I would like to know since I supposedly helped you prove it.  You may want to read my post again because you obviously didn't get the point.  You really are a @&$#(&*

Sad..................

[Butch Français]

so Im at the wrong place?

Depends. If you're here because you think Scott Weiland is a God and you get annoyed when people say he's not, maybe....?

Just like you won't find the world's biggest Axl supporters at Metal Sludge, you probably won't find the world's biggest Weiland fans on a GN'R board.


/jarmo

nonononono my good man, John Frusciante is God!

[St.heathen]

Just wondering if you could tell me which of Scott's lyrics you have found self indulgent??  I can't see it myself. 

I don't really see it in Axl's writing either as i said before you could make that claim with anybodys writing.

 Now maybe on the trilogy videos especially "November Rain". As class as it is, once you have seen the "Making of ..." everybody else seemed pissed off with it all.  They were very self indulgent videos.   

But come on man to argue over peoples illness. I mean i would expect someone with a degree on the issue to have a little understanding of Sociology and Psychology too.  And have a lot more compassion for the complex nature of mental illness.  You cannot say which one is worse, it's how people individually respond and deal with their problems.   

Axl and Scott would probably both kick your ass for bringing their lives up in such a way lol

[tomass74]

But come on man to argue over peoples illness. I mean i would expect someone with a degree on the issue to have a little understanding of Sociology and Psychology too.? And have a lot more compassion for the complex nature of mental illness.? You cannot say which one is worse, it's how people individually respond and deal with their problems.? ?

Axl and Scott would probably both kick your ass for bringing their lives up in such a way lol

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Acquiesce]

Wow, I can't believe we are actually arguing who has the worst set of problems. Both situations are horrible situations to deal with. Sure, Scott chose to try drugs but I doubt he chose to get addicted and let it destroy his life. Axl messed with some hardcore shit too and was fortunate enough to avoid addiction. Does that make him smarter or better than Scott? No, it makes him lucky.

Unless you are inflicted with a mental illness such as bi-polar then you cannot say what a person with such a disease will or won't do. You don't know what it's like to deal with the emotional torture. You don't know what it's like to be held an emotional prisoner by your own brain. You don't know what it's like to feel completely helpless because never will be a normal for you because there isn't a cure. Drugs become a way to escape those feelings, but unforunately it's extremely easy to become dependant on them because you're negative feelings become magnified when you come down.

I think it's really digusting that people would let their blind fanaticism stoop so low as to argue whether someone's illness is valid or not. Get a grip on reality, will ya?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

[mikegiuliana]

dave what is your suggestions for the answers? Lets see scott did one song mentioning his problems with drugs and how it was fucking up his relations.. What does this have to do with why people have given axl shit over the years?

[Acquiesce]

What are you talking about? My bar name?

Dave, it doesn't matter who started the off topic posting when you are the one making the stupid comments.

Back to your original topic, I think some others answered the question already. I think some have this perception of Axl as being self-indugent because he comes across as this guy trying to remembered as someone important by releasing songs that are larger than life. Instead of going with the idea that less is more he has this obsessive need to add bells and whistles at every stop to impress everyone.

I think the reason why people don't criticize the other bands that you mentioned because these musicians in general knew where to stop. Axl had a tendency to go a bit overboard, taking a bit away from the songs theirselves.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

What are you talking about? My bar name?

Dave, it doesn't matter who started the off topic posting when you are the one making the stupid comments.

Back to your original topic, I think some others answered the question already. I think some have this perception of Axl as being self-indugent because he comes across as this guy trying to remembered as someone important by releasing songs that are larger than life. Instead of going with the idea that less is more he has this obsessive need to add bells and whistles at every stop to impress everyone.

I think the reason why people don't criticize the other bands that you mentioned because these musicians in general knew where to stop. Axl had a tendency to go a bit overboard, taking a bit away from the songs theirselves.

So you claim that axl is  trying to be rememberd by releasing songs that are larger than life? It really could be that those are the types of songs that he wants to make?  So is led zepplin IV being self-indulegent?
If axl really wanted to be remembered, he would have just kept making another AFD type album one after another but Axl wanted to evolove and grow as a song writer, there is nothing wrong with that.

[Acquiesce]

If Axl didn't want to impress and be remembered he wouldn't be spending so much money and time on Chinese Democracy. There wouldn't be multiple versions of songs along with synthesizers, samples,  orchestras, and whatever other excesses will be included on the album.

How can you compare Led Zep IV to Axl's indulgences? Do they use all the sound effects Axl uses? Am I missing something? Stairway may be lengthy, but comparing IV to the Illusions is a bit of a strectch, don't you think?

Just for the record, I do like the Illusions and most of Axl's indulgences don't bother me but I can easily see the argument others make.

BTW, could you please explain the bar reference?

[badgirl]

Tomass and acq. like I said before, something you ignored you should blame top hat aka slash is god from the bar for starting whose illness is work, since it was his comment that brought us down this road.

Its funny you still have not called him on that.

Now lets try and get back on topic shall we?
Because the question really still has not been answer.

if you think Duff needs to choose his words more wisely, i suggest you heed that advice. i am not trying to be the grammar police, but it becomes quite difficult to read your posts thus, unlikely that we all can learn from their brilliance.

i have stated and will state again, that whoever first made the point of which affliction was worse did not carry the argument over 4 pages. You did that Dave.  no one is targeting top hat because YOU are the one making his argument for him.... is it that difficult to understand? if top hat was still contributing to this discussion and continuing to parade about the bone-headed belief in qualifying people's emotional experiences, i would be more than happy to take issue with HIM.
But you really make it too easy for us, Dave.