Loving the Alien VS Don't Cry

[jarmo]

It's difficult to compare the two songs right now, because they are both products of their time.

That's a good point. Of course many of you will prefer the VR track, you've been listening to Don't Cry since 1991.

When VR releases their second album, most people will immediately say it's their best one. Maybe after a while they'll realize that it wasn't as good as "Contraband". Only because you've been listening to "Contraband" since June 2004.

It's a natural reaction.

If you still like Loving The Alien as much in 2017 as you do today, then it has stood the test of time.



/jarmo

[TK1]

I agree as well.  I really like LTA, but I am sure part of that is because it's newer.  I remember thinking Madagascar was a great song too, but I kind of got bored with it and haven't listened to it in awhile.  I've felt this way about countless songs.  Time will tell if I have the same view of LTA.   That's what makes Appetite such a great album.  I don't listen to it every day, but I still can throw it in the CD player every few weeks and it still just rocks...

[Top-Hatted One]

I've heard a lot of people say they got bored of madagascar too including myself

[tomass74]

1. Axl did not write Don't Cry-that is why the lyrics are so simple and cheesy-has Stradlin written all over it. Axl's love songs are a little deeper and more negative in general. Axl probably helped with Don't Cry but Izzy has the main writing credit. 2. Don't Cry stinks stinks stinks-it drops Gnr in to the hair metal category and should have been left on the shelf-maybe released as a b-side, along with Back Off Bitch, Get in the Ring, My World and Shotgun Blues (unnecessary petty songs). 3. I would take Loving the Alien overall even though it kind of fell flat with me after a lot of listens. Great solo by Slash and the musical arrangement isn't as cookie cutter as Don't Cry. Just my two cents.

Axl wrote the ALT lyrics to dont cry, izzy wrote the orginal.

Btw since ur bashing get in the ring, you know its not an axl song right?
its a duff song?

What the fuck is wrong with you? You think this guy wouldn't have said he thought GITR should be a B-side if he thought Duff wrote it and only said cause he thought it was an Axl song? Is this part of your paranoia that everyone is out to get you and Axl? The guy is obviously an Axl fan being his name is Madagas and at the beginning of his post he is saying that Axl's lyrics are deeper than Izzy...

HEY EVERYBODY!!!! JUST INCASE YOU DON"T LIKE GET IN THE RING...........IT"S DUFF"S SONG, NOT AXL'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LTA blows Don't Cry away......

yes since the other songs he called petty songs were written by axl.

and LTA is just boring as hell and makes VR sound like hair metal.
BLAH.? VR is very mediorce.

You are so blind in your battle to stick for Axl. YOu make an ass of your self. The guy is sticking up for Axl's lyrics.

[IndiannaRose]

It would be nice to hear a naked version of Nov Rain done around 1990, not the old one from AFD era.

Then all you have to do is listen to a live version of November Rain from 1991 or 1993. During both of those years November Rain was played stripped down to the core.

[IndiannaRose]

So I guess LTA and YGNR sinks VR to hair metal right?

Hardly..

As Madagas said, LTA is pure Bowie and I'd say YGNR has much more of a STP/Nirvana kind of feel, both superior IMO to the epic poo of DC and NR.? Keep in mind, I'm no fan of either VR selection so I have no vested interest in either song.? In DC's and NR's defense, those songs are like 15 years old and were products of their time, created by a band who'd lost any sense of direction and who were at the forefront of the pompous and overblown.

Oh we all know how overblown songs like Right Next Door To Hell and Don't Damn Me are. (sense the sarcasm) The thing with you Falcon is that you single out November Rain and Don't Cry and pretend those were the only songs on the Illusion albums. (just like how you ignore the 1991 and 1993 Use Your Illusion Tour) I mean since when is a song like You Could be Mine created 'by a band who'd lost any sense of direction'? How are songs like Dead Horse overblown? See all you do is nitpick all the little details of the Illusions but completely ignore the rest of the material. Have you even seen the St.Louis 1991 show? That show has double the angriness and double the rage than the Ritz 1988' show in which your oh so glorious 'Appetite' decade resides in. Also, how can you compare November Rain to Don't Cry. One song is a rock ballad and one song is an epic in proportion that can be compared to the likes of Bohemian Rhapsody and Stairway to Heaven. I don't mean to insult you, but if you watch any 1991 live performance you will notice that you're dead wrong about the band and how it became 'overblown'. Hell I bet you haven't seen the European 1993 Tour bootlegs. For you "a band who'd lost any sense of direction and who were at the forefront of the pompous and overblown" is one that has variety. I can clearly see that.

You speak like every single song on the Illusions was like November Rain. You magnify any aspect which you might find negative. The Illusion albums had everything from Country songs (You Ain't The First), speed metal songs (Perfect Crime, The Garden of Eden), punk songs (Don't Damn Me), epic ballads (November Rain, Estranged), epic rockers (Coma), hard rockers (Back Off Bitch, You Could Be Mine) to blues songs (14 Years), progressive rock (Double Talkin' Jive), 'hippie' rock (The Garden), etc... That is why I consider the Illusions a work of art. It's like having an artpiece with variosu different shades of value. That was the power of Guns N' Roses (one which you will never understand); they could do two songs of an entire different genre or sub-genre but still sound like Guns N' Roses. So where are the back-up singers on Civil War? Where is the horn section in Locomotive? See this is the perception you give off. They were not afraid to take musical risks, that is why I respect them greatly. They rebelled against what the public and media wanted their next album to sound like. They completely ignored what record companies and producers told them for the sake of sales. That is focus.

Also I'm gonna cover this next subject since I'm here anyways. You always speak of overblown videos. Well how was the video for You Could Be Mine 'overblown'? Did you consider that video that demonstrated the band's 1991 Ritz performance of the band too 'pompous'? Or how about the Live and Let Die video? What made that 'bigger than life'? Was it the packed stadium that made the video 'overblown'? So I guess you found the low-budget black n' white Yesterdays video too 'overblown'? I mean what else could be more overblown than the band recording themselves playing a song club stlye? Really. Or how about The Garden of Eden video? That video was recorded with about a $2.00 budget and was a one angle shoot. Surely you must have seen it, surely "overblown" must come to mind. Especially the part where the band is playing at a tempo of about 130 and headbangin' very intensely. But how could I forget the Dead Horse video. You know the video where all they show is the band goin' insane on stage. Surely they must've spent a big budget on that video as your "horn section" and "back-up singers" were made invisible, which must've cost millions of dollars. (and also they must've paid the United States military lots o'
money to let them borrow that kind of technology)

Face it, you single out songs like Don't Cry and November Rain very vaguely. Your musical stereotypes ain't gonna get you anywhere dude. Also please stop with this whole "grunge thing". Guns N' Roses sold 3 times as many copies of albums worldwide as the most prolific Grunge band in history, Nirvana. From 1991 to 1993, the time were Guns N' Roses were supposedley 'destroyed' by Grunge GN'R managed to sell 32 million copies of the Illusion albums worldwide. Also if I remember correctly it was Eddie Vedder and not Kurt Cobain that made flannel mainstream. The only thing that put Axl into hiding was himself, the only thing that destroyed Guns N' Roses was themselves. Not one outside element did that. Also by saying Don't Cry 'is a piece of shit', you're putting the song in the same category as Stacy's Mom which I know you think 'is a piece of shit' as well.?

The End.

[Booker Floyd]

The thing with you Falcon is that you single out November Rain and Don't Cry and pretend those were the only songs on the Illusion albums.

Actually, he singles them out because they exemplify what hes talking about.  I believe his opinion is that the band as a whole was unfocused...so whether they did a few concert videos, or straight-ahead rockers doesnt really matter, because they still had the overblown videos, grandiose production, and back-up singers.  If its his opinion that the band was bloated and unfocused, surely the odd concert video isnt going to remedy it.

One song is a rock ballad and one song is an epic in proportion that can be compared to the likes of Bohemian Rhapsody and Stairway to Heaven.

Actually, both are rock ballads.  And Falcon is no fan of ballads.

You speak like every single song on the Illusions was like November Rain.

Not every song...but quite a few.  Now, maybe I shouldnt be speaking for Falcon, but I think I understand his pont of view enough to provide you with enough insight before he does it himself.

Hes a fan of AFD-era Guns, and surely you could see how an AFD-era fan might not care for the UYI-era Guns.  Face it, they were bloated.  You can cite this video and that performance, that doesnt erase the many overblown aspects of the band at the time.  Playing double-pianos atop a motorcycle, huge, preposterous videos featuring dolphins, back-up singers, keyboards, horns, etc. 

The Illusion albums had everything from Country songs (You Ain't The First), speed metal songs (Perfect Crime, The Garden of Eden), punk songs (Don't Damn Me), epic ballads (November Rain, Estranged), epic rockers (Coma), hard rockers (Back Off Bitch, You Could Be Mine) to blues songs (14 Years), progressive rock (Double Talkin' Jive), 'hippie' rock (The Garden), etc... That is why I consider the Illusions a work of art.

And thats probably why he considers them bloated and unfocused...

Also..."Dont Damn Me" punk?  "DTJ" prog-rock??  Speed metal?   

So where are the back-up singers on Civil War?

There might not be back-up singers, but theres probably enough whistling, rain storm effects, and keyboards to turn Falcon off.

Where is the horn section in Locomotive?

Again, maybe not horns, but the length and keyboards are enough to turn him off.

I understand you like these ambitious, diverse songs...and I agree with you.  But thats not Falcons thing, and I cant blame him for finding them unfocused, bloated or self-indulgent.

That is focus.

It is?  It might be ballsy, but I wouldnt say "focused" is an appropriate description.

Well how was the video for You Could Be Mine 'overblown'?

Well, it was a Terminator 2 commercial...

Did you consider that video that demonstrated the band's 1991 Ritz performance of the band too 'pompous'? Or how about the Live and Let Die video? What made that 'bigger than life'? Was it the packed stadium that made the video 'overblown'? So I guess you found the low-budget black n' white Yesterdays video too 'overblown'? I mean what else could be more overblown than the band recording themselves playing a song club stlye? Really. Or how about The Garden of Eden video? That video was recorded with about a $2.00 budget and was a one angle shoot. Surely you must have seen it, surely "overblown" must come to mind. Especially the part where the band is playing at a tempo of about 130 and headbangin' very intensely. But how could I forget the Dead Horse video. You know the video where all they show is the band goin' insane on stage. Surely they must've spent a big budget on that video as your "horn section" and "back-up singers" were made invisible, which must've cost millions of dollars. (and also they must've paid the United States military lots o'
money to let them borrow that kind of technology)

You know what hes talking about..."Estranged," "November Rain," and "Dont Cry".  Yes there were other videos that werent as big, but that doesnt negate the existence of these three.

[younggunner]

Booker do you have nothing else better to do tonight?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I am just curious booker do you bash led zepplin IV too since most of those songs can be compared to the syle of estranged, nov rain, coma, locomotive, civil war and breakdown?

[Falcon]

The thing with you Falcon is that you single out November Rain and Don't Cry and pretend those were the only songs on the Illusion albums.

Actually, he singles them out because they exemplify what hes talking about.? I believe his opinion is that the band as a whole was unfocused...so whether they did a few concert videos, or straight-ahead rockers doesnt really matter, because they still had the overblown videos, grandiose production, and back-up singers.? If its his opinion that the band was bloated and unfocused, surely the odd concert video isnt going to remedy it.

One song is a rock ballad and one song is an epic in proportion that can be compared to the likes of Bohemian Rhapsody and Stairway to Heaven.

Actually, both are rock ballads.? And Falcon is no fan of ballads.

You speak like every single song on the Illusions was like November Rain.

Not every song...but quite a few.? Now, maybe I shouldnt be speaking for Falcon, but I think I understand his pont of view enough to provide you with enough insight before he does it himself.

Hes a fan of AFD-era Guns, and surely you could see how an AFD-era fan might not care for the UYI-era Guns.? Face it, they were bloated.? You can cite this video and that performance, that doesnt erase the many overblown aspects of the band at the time.? Playing double-pianos atop a motorcycle, huge, preposterous videos featuring dolphins, back-up singers, keyboards, horns, etc.?

The Illusion albums had everything from Country songs (You Ain't The First), speed metal songs (Perfect Crime, The Garden of Eden), punk songs (Don't Damn Me), epic ballads (November Rain, Estranged), epic rockers (Coma), hard rockers (Back Off Bitch, You Could Be Mine) to blues songs (14 Years), progressive rock (Double Talkin' Jive), 'hippie' rock (The Garden), etc... That is why I consider the Illusions a work of art.

And thats probably why he considers them bloated and unfocused...

Also..."Dont Damn Me" punk?? "DTJ" prog-rock??? Speed metal?? ?

So where are the back-up singers on Civil War?

There might not be back-up singers, but theres probably enough whistling, rain storm effects, and keyboards to turn Falcon off.

Where is the horn section in Locomotive?

Again, maybe not horns, but the length and keyboards are enough to turn him off.

I understand you like these ambitious, diverse songs...and I agree with you.? But thats not Falcons thing, and I cant blame him for finding them unfocused, bloated or self-indulgent.

That is focus.

It is?? It might be ballsy, but I wouldnt say "focused" is an appropriate description.

Well how was the video for You Could Be Mine 'overblown'?

Well, it was a Terminator 2 commercial...

Did you consider that video that demonstrated the band's 1991 Ritz performance of the band too 'pompous'? Or how about the Live and Let Die video? What made that 'bigger than life'? Was it the packed stadium that made the video 'overblown'? So I guess you found the low-budget black n' white Yesterdays video too 'overblown'? I mean what else could be more overblown than the band recording themselves playing a song club stlye? Really. Or how about The Garden of Eden video? That video was recorded with about a $2.00 budget and was a one angle shoot. Surely you must have seen it, surely "overblown" must come to mind. Especially the part where the band is playing at a tempo of about 130 and headbangin' very intensely. But how could I forget the Dead Horse video. You know the video where all they show is the band goin' insane on stage. Surely they must've spent a big budget on that video as your "horn section" and "back-up singers" were made invisible, which must've cost millions of dollars. (and also they must've paid the United States military lots o'
money to let them borrow that kind of technology)

You know what hes talking about..."Estranged," "November Rain," and "Dont Cry".? Yes there were other videos that werent as big, but that doesnt negate the existence of these three.

I don't think I need to add anymore to the above.

Done and done.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

^

Were the beatles self-indulgent because their vids were much more elaborate than the gnr vids?