axl rose eating eminems soul

[anythinggoes]

sorry if this has been posted before but i liked it and hadnt seen it before

http://www.spin.com/images/bigillusion1.jpg

Posted by: SpinOnline on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 01:58 PM
 
 
Illustration by Danielle Huthart
By Chuck Klosterman

Why is Axl Rose eating Eminem's soul?

Here's the thing about modern teenagers: They like rap. It speaks to them. Rap music (sometimes referred to as "hip-hop" by sociologists) offers today's youth a sense of urgency and desperation not seen since the "heyday" of late-'70s punk-rock artists like the Clash and Boston. This phenomenon is best illustrated through the work of a popular Caucasian known as Eminem, a man who spent much of 2002 as the unsmiling cover boy for youth-oriented magazines such as Spin, The Face, and The New York Times Magazine. It would seem that Eminem is a new kind of cultural Minotaur: the irrepressible cad who flouts society's conventions by candidly critiquing pop culture and sporadically threatening to murder people. It all seems quite innovative.

Yet this is not as you may suspect, true believers. This has been done before. In fact, this has completely been done before, because Eminem is Axl Rose. And I don't mean Eminem is like Axl Rose in a metaphorical sense or in a philosophical sense or in an allegorical sense; Eminem is literally reliving Rose's career in bizarre, hyper-specific ways. My proof:

Both hail from the Midwest and express violent anger toward their mothers (Rose on Guns N' Roses' "Bad Obsession," Eminem on pretty much every track he's ever recorded).
Both reappropriated their given names for reasons that were simultaneously personal and aesthetic (Rose renamed himself after discovering the identity of his "real" father; Eminem titled his most visceral album after his legal name to make it more "real" to listeners).
Both have been critically reviled as homophobic, yet both seem vaguely obsessed and/or connected with gay culture (Rose once sent flowers to the Pet Shop Boys, who later sang the song "The Night I Fell in Love," about a Shady-like character). Both artists were also defended by Elton John, who performed with each at high-profile awards shows.
Both are fixated on burying women in the backyard (Rose in the GN'R song "Used to Love Her," Eminem in the video for "Cleanin' Out My Closet").
Both attacked seemingly innocuous enemies (Axl went after the likes of Vince Neil and Spin founder Bob Guccione Jr.; Em went after Moby and Chris Kirkpatrick).
Both sing about abusing "bitches" they were romantically involved with (Rose on "It's So Easy," Slim Shady on "Kim").
Both are diminutive white males who, after discovering weight training, suddenly wanted to appear shirtless in public.
So what do these "coincidences" tell us, beyond suggesting that Eminem soon will disappear into the Sedona desert for ten years before emerging with a band featuring some dude wearing a KFC bucket? Perhaps they tell us this: What always survives the evolution of culture, and what tends to be replicated most closely by subsequent generations, is inexplicable--a manifestation of fucked-up alienation. Logic would dictate that commercial success comes from creating a product that people can relate to. But cultural success--the ability to exist as an idea, years after your tangible work has lost its relevance--derives from embodying a persona that almost nobody can relate to. Somehow, the marriage of weirdness and bad judgment is its own kind of eternal reality.

Case in point: Justin Timberlake. When J.T. performed in that stupid detective's hat at last year's MTV Video Music Awards, everyone's reaction was the same: "Oh, how cute--he wants to be Michael Jackson." I can't believe that more people weren't aghast that someone actively wants to be Michael Jackson. At this point, Jackson is no different from Howard Hughes: His life's work has been completely dwarfed by his desire to lie in hyperbaric oxygen chambers and collect the bones of the Elephant Man (not to mention his being accused of child molestation and calling Sony racist for allowing him to sell only 58 million albums). No rational person views Jackson as anything except a freakish example of why profound celebrity is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. Yet people like Timberlake (and like Eminem) still aspire to that kind of public self-destruction, because that kind of losing is actually how you win. And that's because profound celebrity is always less disposable than art.

 

[RichardNixon]

Good article. I guess the main difference between the two artists is that Axl is a genius and Eminem, well, sucks big fat moose cock.

Hey I have a question. Do you think Eminem and Axl had a chat at the 2002 MTV awards?

[AxlFink]

I like some of eminems music i guess.. if im drunk and it comes on in a club...


but Axl has talent and eminem doesnt.  they both have the same rage but who cares... eminem is just a rapper.

Axl vents his anger with a huge amount of talent.  He also has other sides to him in his music besides anger.

[NickNasty]

Good article. I guess the main difference between the two artists is that Axl is a genius and Eminem, well, sucks big fat moose cock.

 

Serious note: Does anybody think people will be listening to the "Real Slim Shady" 20 years from now? I doubt it, but I do think people will still reminicese about 'Sweet Child O' Mine' and "November Rain.'

[Dave_Rose]

Yeah it was a good article I think people will still look back at Guns more but there is only one Axl

[Dayle1066]

I enjoyed reading that, thank you

[Eazy E]

but Axl has talent and eminem doesnt.? they both have the same rage but who cares... eminem is just a rapper.

Axl vents his anger with a huge amount of talent.? He also has other sides to him in his music besides anger.

That's ridiculous.  Just a "rapper"... so why don't you snap your fingers and start rapping?  If you don't need talent, then we should all be able to do it?  Also, how is all of Eminem's music "angry"?  He writes emotional songs, as well as joke songs.  In fact, the majority of his last CD wasn't angry at all.  You may prefer Axl to Eminem, but that doesn't mean he isn't talented.  Apparently Axl has taken over producing duties for Chinese Democracy.... Eminem picked up on producing a lot faster than old Axl.  That's a talent in itself.

Serious note: Does anybody think people will be listening to the "Real Slim Shady" 20 years from now? I doubt it, but I do think people will still reminicese about 'Sweet Child O' Mine' and "November Rain.'

WTF are you talking about?  You're saying Eminem won't be remembered?  He's one of, if not the, biggest rap artist ever.  An Elvis-like figure.  Maybe "The Real Slim Shady" won't be played years from now (even though his VMA performance of the song is one of the most remembered in the history of the show).... but how about "Lose Yourself"??  You don't think people will remember an Academy Award winning soundtrack song?  A soundtrack song from Eminem's #1 movie off of his #1 Soundtrack from the same year as his #1 Solo album which included a handful of other huge hits?

Rap music is the dominant genre for this generation, and you're saying that people won't remember it's biggest artist.  If that makes you feel more confident that "Rap music is crap music".... then continue saying absurd stuff like this.  I'm not a fan of Celine Dion's music, but I don't doubt that she has made a stamp, and that she has talent.

[ClintroN]

FUCK YOU EMINEM

[FlashFlood]

sky, i hate to tell you this, but you are completely and totally wrong. the talent level of eminem can not even be compared to that of axl rose. rap music is nothing but a bunch of recycled loops and beats from other songs along with rhymed lyrics. and lets be serious for a moment, eminem isnt exactly writing his music in iambic pentameter. anybody who's anybody can download a program, create a beat, and put lyrics over it. what takes talent is creating an actual, authentic song. eminem is good at what he does, but it should not be overappreciated. to praise eminem and put him on the same pedastel with an axl rose or a freddy mercury or a john lennon is a sin.

[Eazy E]

sky, i hate to tell you this, but you are completely and totally wrong. the talent level of eminem can not even be compared to that of axl rose. rap music is nothing but a bunch of recycled loops and beats from other songs along with rhymed lyrics. and lets be serious for a moment, eminem isnt exactly writing his music in iambic pentameter. anybody who's anybody can download a program, create a beat, and put lyrics over it. what takes talent is creating an actual, authentic song. eminem is good at what he does, but it should not be overappreciated. to praise eminem and put him on the same pedastel with an axl rose or a freddy mercury or a john lennon is a sin.

Again, if all you have to do is download a music program, recycle a beat, and throw some lyrics on it... why don't you go out and do it?

How is Lose Yourself not an "actual, authentic song"?? It has a piano, guitar, and drum track and it has lyrics that tell a story.? It was a crossover hit (Fuck, I only ever hear the song on my local 'Edge' station... an all rock format, jumping from Nirvana to Eminem).? So why is a song like that not authentic?

Eminem is a sought-after producer and he also runs his own record label... on top of being the most popular rap artist in the world.? You're saying that you can pull all of that off without being talented??

BTW, I'm sure some people would say putting Axl Rose on the same pedastel as John Lennon is a sin...

[FlashFlood]

Again, if all you have to do is download a music program, recycle a beat, and throw some lyrics on it... why don't you go out and do it?

because i dont want to.

How is Lose Yourself not an "actual, authentic song"?? It has a piano, guitar, and drum track and it has lyrics that tell a story.? It was a crossover hit (Fuck, I only ever hear the song on my local 'Edge' station... an all rock format, jumping from Nirvana to Eminem).? So why is a song like that not authentic?

my radio stations have done it to, and its just because people like it. im not arguing people's musical interests, im just saying that when it comes to the talent that it takes to create a song, eminem is far below other musicians.

Eminem is a sought-after producer and he also runs his own record label... on top of being the most popular rap artist in the world.? You're saying that you can pull all of that off without being talented??

he is able to do that because he has a lot of money. because he was ridiculously promoted on mtv and various media outlets. his music is forced down people's throats (see the radio station argument).

BTW, I'm sure some people would say putting Axl Rose on the same pedastel as John Lennon is a sin...

i didnt say that. i was just making a connection. john lennon is the greatest musician of all time.

[NickNasty]

WTF are you talking about?  You're saying Eminem won't be remembered?  He's one of, if not the, biggest rap artist ever.  An Elvis-like figure.  Maybe "The Real Slim Shady" won't be played years from now (even though his VMA performance of the song is one of the most remembered in the history of the show).... but how about "Lose Yourself"??  You don't think people will remember an Academy Award winning soundtrack song?  A soundtrack song from Eminem's #1 movie off of his #1 Soundtrack from the same year as his #1 Solo album which included a handful of other huge hits?

Eminem is NOT an Elivs like figure. not even close. Eminem is a gifted writer and rapper no doubt, but he was also, in many ways, preselected, premarketed, and prepackaged by Dr. Dre and alot of record execs. Elvis started a culture change- he combined styles of music: gospel, country, and 'black' music like r& B and sold it to a 'white' culture, paving the way for great social change. Eminem has done none of those things...rap music ( from Run DMC to NWA to Public Enemy) was pouring into the 'white'  suburbs long before he came along. Hell, the Beastie Boys were doing it long before he was...and ALL the aforementioned artists had a much bigger impact in bringing the social cultural trends of urban America into the mainstream pathing the way for a slick-marketed product like Eminem.

As for why Axl Rose and Guns N Roses will be more rembered than Eminem: I will not be one to say GNR were original in any musical sense, they certainly brought many influences to the table that are very easily distinguished, nor did they change the culture of America in any siginficant way (I don't think)...But they certainly didnt have the promotional machine Eminem enjoyed...they were passed up by nearly every label that came close to signing them, they played crowds of 10 people...and suddenly they were the hugest band in the world---everywhere from the USA to Japan to Israel to Lebanon to Brazil...all in a scant period of time. Their music, now most of it over 10 years old, has raido cross over appeal- still played on modern rock, classic rock, and (occasionally) top-40 ish radio formats.

And as the Spin article implies: the Eminem story really is just a fainter retelling of the Axl Rose story, and people will always remember the original more than the imitation 

[Booker Floyd]

Eminem is NOT an Elivs like figure. not even close.

Sure he is - a phenomenally successful musician doing "black" music for a white audience.

Eminem is a gifted writer and rapper no doubt, but he was also, in many ways, preselected, premarketed, and prepackaged by Dr. Dre and alot of record execs.

Really?  How so?  Because half of Eminems breakthrough major-label debut was actually the independent EP that Dr. Dre heard before signing him...So please inform me as to what was pre-packaged...

Yes, it was marketed.  Just like every other record ever made.

Elvis started a culture change- he combined styles of music: gospel, country, and 'black' music like r& B and sold it to a 'white' culture, paving the way for great social change. Eminem has done none of those things...

Like it or not, he has.  Theres a million young white kids who dont listen to rap music (and probably dont even interact with black people in real life) that worship Eminem.  His impact is enormous. 

rap music ( from Run DMC to NWA to Public Enemy) was pouring into the 'white'? suburbs long before he came along.

And Eminem has made it even bigger by appealing heavily to those young white kids (most of whom probably dont recognize the Beastie Boys as hip-hop artists or know who Run DMC is).  None of those acts sold 1.7 million copies in 1 week.  In fact, no other solo artist, in any genre, has done that.  You simply cant downplay that kind of popularity. 

As for why Axl Rose and Guns N Roses will be more rembered than Eminem: I will not be one to say GNR were original in any musical sense, they certainly brought many influences to the table that are very easily distinguished, nor did they change the culture of America in any siginficant way (I don't think)...But they certainly didnt have the promotional machine Eminem enjoyed

 

...they were passed up by nearly every label that came close to signing them, they played crowds of 10 people...

You dont know much about Eminem pre-Aftermath, do you?  Its fine if you dont, but dont speak like you do when youre so blatantly wrong.

and suddenly they were the hugest band in the world---everywhere from the USA to Japan to Israel to Lebanon to Brazil...all in a scant period of time.

Same with Eminem.

Their music, now most of it over 10 years old, has raido cross over appeal- still played on modern rock, classic rock, and (occasionally) top-40 ish radio formats.

I dont listen to top 40 radio, so maybe you can tell me what youre talking about there...

Speaking of cross-over appeal, be sure to look out for Eminems next single on your top 40 station...and modern rock station...and rap station...and alternative station, just like "Lose Yourself" was.

And as the Spin article implies: the Eminem story really is just a fainter retelling of the Axl Rose story, and people will always remember the original more than the imitation?

If you believe that, fine...but youre only fooling yourself.  As an Axl Rose fan, you can keep telling yourself a million reasons why Axls better/more important/etc., but just take a look around you.  Read the Rolling Stone cover stories dedicated to building the Eminem legend, hailing him as a genius.  Check out the charts - youll not see that he himself sold 21 million records in 5 years, but has shot his other projects to #1, platinum status (8 Mile, D12s albums, 50 Cent/G-Unit/etc.).  Hes starred in a blockbuster movie about his own life, etc., etc., etc.  The point is clear.

And Im not even a big Eminem fan.  I think hes a great rapper, but a lot of his music doesnt appeal to me.  However there denying his popularity, impact and importance in pop music.

[RichardNixon]

I hate Eminem. He's music irritates me. And I'm sick of hearing about him bitching all the time and he never has anything interesting to say. Compare the lyrics of "Civil War" to anything that Emimem has ever written. Compare the melody, piano solo, and song structure of "Estranged" to anything the Mr. Mathers has ever written. I mean, yeah, they have some things in common, but musical genius is not one of them.

[NickNasty]

ouch, where's the love, Booker...ok I'll concede my knowledge of Eminem pre-Aftermath is sketchy at best, so I won't argue on something you obviously know more about. but i will not concede that Eminem is even close to being on the pedastal of importance in American culture and music that Elvis was/is, nor will he ever be.
 Aesthetically it's easy to say they both took 'black music' and made it popular to 'white' audiences, but the fact is, when Elvis hit the scene he set off a firestorm that would pave the way for the modern music industry, from everything marketing to performance. His embracement of 'black' music in a certainly much more racially hostile climate is at least somewhat attriubtable to the accpetance civil rights movement (at least in the boomer generation) in the decades following his initial arrival. His hip swaying controversey stemmed the beginnings of the sexual revolution. Moreover Elvis's crossover appeal ( from his movie roles to his militray service) would eventually reach beyond young people to cover many other age groups- he parlayed initial controversey into overall societal acceptance ( something a sociopath like eminem will never be able to do).

Secondly, to say that eminem is reaching white kids who don't otherwise listen to rap is simply untrue....rap albums have been consistently been consumed more by suburban white males since (I speak to this not only from reading about it but from my junior high and highschool experiences, where most of the school was white, and the predominantly popular artists  Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Snoop Dogg) the mid to late 90's and till now than any other demographic, including black males, whom the music is supposedly being produced for...Eminem's success is probably based more on his 'controversial' lyrical content and, as someone else mentioned, ridiculous overexposure on MTV and other entertainment networks than white kids who dont know rap being amazed at some 'new' form of music.

But enough about it, ultimately, Eminem's legacy will be determined by a larger group of people than you or I. And the point of the Spin article is to compare the similarities of Axl and Eminem's experiences. And we don't know the end result of either. Ultimately, I believe (escpecially if CD is released) Axl will remembered more than Eminem as a musical visionary who risked fame and credibility for his artistic vision, whereas I see Eminem as a talented man who has had the backing and blessing of many more people within the media industry as a marketable star with appeal to one key (albeit important) demographic 18-24 year old urban and suburbanite kids. Time will either prove me wrong or right.

[ccorn69]

but Axl has talent and eminem doesnt.? they both have the same rage but who cares... eminem is just a rapper.

Axl vents his anger with a huge amount of talent.? He also has other sides to him in his music besides anger.

That's ridiculous.? Just a "rapper"... so why don't you snap your fingers and start rapping?? If you don't need talent, then we should all be able to do it?? Also, how is all of Eminem's music "angry"?? He writes emotional songs, as well as joke songs.? In fact, the majority of his last CD wasn't angry at all.? You may prefer Axl to Eminem, but that doesn't mean he isn't talented.? Apparently Axl has taken over producing duties for Chinese Democracy.... Eminem picked up on producing a lot faster than old Axl.? That's a talent in itself.

Serious note: Does anybody think people will be listening to the "Real Slim Shady" 20 years from now? I doubt it, but I do think people will still reminicese about 'Sweet Child O' Mine' and "November Rain.'

WTF are you talking about?? You're saying Eminem won't be remembered?? He's one of, if not the, biggest rap artist ever.? An Elvis-like figure.? Maybe "The Real Slim Shady" won't be played years from now (even though his VMA performance of the song is one of the most remembered in the history of the show).... but how about "Lose Yourself" You don't think people will remember an Academy Award winning soundtrack song?? A soundtrack song from Eminem's #1 movie off of his #1 Soundtrack from the same year as his #1 Solo album which included a handful of other huge hits?

Rap music is the dominant genre for this generation, and you're saying that people won't remember it's biggest artist.? If that makes you feel more confident that "Rap music is crap music".... then continue saying absurd stuff like this.? I'm not a fan of Celine Dion's music, but I don't doubt that she has made a stamp, and that she has talent.

very well said sky, look guys we might not like rap music or what not, but to deny eminem's talent is ignorant, what he does is hard to do, he produces, he writes, he performs, its hard shit to do, if not everyone would do it, hell theres alot of money in it, so while I dont have to like his stuff or buy his cds i can appreciate his talent.  Hell for Dr. Dre to acknowledge Ems talent says alot cause Dr Dre is a legendery rap producer, and the man knows talent when he sees it, from Snoop Dog to Em.  Axl is a talented person in his own way and so is Marshall Mathers, lets just leave it at that,

peace

[AxlFink]

sky72-

eminem is a gay piece of shit

[jarmo]

Eminem is NOT an Elivs like figure. not even close.

Sure he is - a phenomenally successful musician doing "black" music for a white audience.

So was Vanilla Ice.....

Beastie Boys still are.

If you feel like continuing the discussion about Eminem, there's always the Bad Obsession section.




/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

So was Vanilla Ice.....

Surely you understand the difference between Vanilla Ice and Eminem?

Beastie Boys still are.

Sort of...Beastie Boys have (and always had, to an extent) more of a rock appeal than most rappers.  Their most straightforward hip-hop album (Pauls Botique, which is also their best) was their least successful.  And theyve never had the same kind of artistic credibility that Eminem currently has.   

[AdZ]

Surely you understand the difference between Vanilla Ice and Eminem?

Yes.



Now, if you want to talk about other artists. Do it in Bad Obsession