Will Geffen force Axl's hand?

[NickNasty]

Some of us on this board have speculated that at least some of the leaks prior to VH1 about the November release have come from Geffen/Interscope, who want this desperately out by the end of the year. My question is, if Axl fails to produce anything by this alleged deadline, will Geffen finally try to force Axl's hand by taking him to court for Chinese Democracy? After all, this album is something he is contractually obligated to give them, right? A question for music historians or legal buffs on this board, have their been previous instances where a media company has gone to court to force an artist to release a piece of material?

[MadmanDan]

It's become clear over the years that no one can force Axl to do anything.

[Izzy]

There are three reasons why Geffen haven't come a'callin' for the album

1. its unbeliebavly good - they will allow all the time needed for it to be perfected

2. Its rubbish - or doesn't exist in which case there is nothing worthwhile to release

3. Geffen have largely forgotten about the band - they have began deducting money from Axl's royalties to repay their outlay and GNR are no longer any real priority for them

We all hope its reason 1

[axl_rose_700]

There are three reasons why Geffen haven't come a'callin' for the album

1. its unbeliebavly good - they will allow all the time needed for it to be perfected

2. Its rubbish - or doesn't exist in which case there is nothing worthwhile to release

3. Geffen have largely forgotten about the band - they have began deducting money from Axl's royalties to repay their outlay and GNR are no longer any real priority for them

We all hope its reason 1

If it didn't exist I'm pretty sure we'd know by now, I'm gunna go for 1, I just hope I'll hear it before I go deaf....

[ppbebe]

if Axl fails to produce anything by this alleged deadline, will Geffen finaaly try to fore Axl's hand by taking him to court for Chinese Democracy? After all, this album is something he is contractually obligated to give them, right.

That?s horrible! I hope it?s not like that. If it is its serious.  

1) In mid May there was a rumour about a loan(?) on Axls house.
- Axl Rose's record label has a lien on his house because of the millions invested in the infamous "Chinese Democracy.?

2) Wasn?t GH due in last November at the outset?

[Dayle1066]

I think its 3. although i do hope its good!

[Mr Cowbell ?]

He isnt obligated to give them CD, he doesnt have to give anyone CD. He probalby has a 1 or 2 record deal with Geffen & Co.  Artist can release Live Albums, or Greatest HIts to meet a Record Contract. If they only had a 1 record deal with Axl and they released the GH, that could count as his contract obligation.

[Midnight]

I'm guessing Geffen are a little worried to say the least.   Gn'R back catalogue must still be selling at a sweet rate mind, that'll keep Geffen happy.   I don't think they'll give Axl much more time, I mean for an album to be on the verge of coming out for years is quite rediculous.

[Ignatius]

have their been previous instances where a media company has gone to court to force an artist to release a piece of material?

The only case that comes to mind is the George Michael Vs. Sony in the early 90's. That was slightly different though. George Michael took Sony to court to free him off the deal he had with the mentioned firm. He eventually, got what he wanted and signed with a different label.

Funny thing is though, he just signed a multimillion dollar deal with...Sony!! Money talks and bullshit walks!!!

[NickNasty]

3. Geffen have largely forgotten about the band - they have began deducting money from Axl's royalties to repay their outlay and GNR are no longer any real priority for them

Making up $13 million (at least ) is alot to simply forget about i'd think...maybe not though, given GH's sales. Anyone have any back catalogue figures out there?

[justynius]

It's become clear over the years that no one can force Axl to do anything.

IMO, this is more likely than the other three hypotheticals.

Considering how long it has taken, there were obviously no time limits worked into Axl's contract with Geffen. The interviews clearly prove that GN'R are still working on the album, so lack of effort is not an issue. As long as Axl doesn't release any material with another record company and continues to work on the album, I really don't see how Geffen can force him to do anything.

I think the fact that the vocals have not been done for most of the songs is key. If the songs are incomplete, Geffen obviously has nothing to release. It's not like they can stick a microphone in front of Axl and say "sing!" They also would not be able to sell a CD full of instrumentals. Axl's choice to wait to record the lyrics until everything else is complete might be his greatest source of power.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

I'm sure he atleast has lyrics written.... DANCE MONKEY

[SonofAGun]

I think the Live 87-93 and Greatest Hits CDs were ways for Geffen to recoup some of their investment.

I dont view it as a good sign that they released Greatest Hits this year for that reason.

[Evolution]

I'm sure that if Geffen got their investment back they will let Axl work on CD for the rest of his life for all he cares.


But when he comes to them with incredible material it will be a different story i'm sure

[Fuckin' Gunner]

Maybe Axl didn't put the vocals on the songs or didn't gave the vocal parts to the Geffen, then they would't release (or they can release the INSTRUMENTAL CHINESE DEMOCRACY)...

[justynius]

I'm sure that if Geffen got their investment back they will let Axl work on CD for the rest of his life for all he cares. But when he comes to them with incredible material it will be a different story i'm sure

Legally, Geffen has two options...

1. Let Axl continue to work on Chinese Democracy
2. Decide they're no longer going to fund any more work, and release what Axl has completed thus far

With no time constraints worked into the contract and the vocals unrecorded, Axl has Geffen pretty much powerless. This is quite a feat in an industry most people believe to be dominated by the record companies. I think Axl may be trying to send a message out to other artists that you don't have to sell out your artistic integrity to the record companies, and there are still ways to produce a quality album instead of catering to their demands.

[SOH]

No, he probably just knew the band would eventually self-destruct and he might need a large amount of time to get it back in working order. That is, if this contract was done a long time ago. If it were done more recently, well, Geffen are fucking morons.

[RumJungle]

Guns n Roses are one of the most successful bands of all time.

They have sold like 90 million copies of 5 albums.

Geffen still rakes in plenty every year off a band that has been dead for a long time.

13 million for Axl's project is a drop in the bucket compared to the money he has made them.

This is why he has been alowed to take the time he has taken.  When its all said and done, the money that Geffen could make off of three new GnR albums will be well worth the investment and time.

OUT

[Mr Cowbell ?]

I think the Live 87-93 and Greatest Hits CDs were ways for Geffen to recoup some of their investment.

I dont view it as a good sign that they released Greatest Hits this year for that reason.

I disagree with GH, VR, and the BTM, GnR are hotter and more in the limelight now then in 2002. The "Iron" is very hot. The GH's helped built up hype. Heck its still selling well and since the BTM came out last week its sales shot back up some.

Now that people know Slash and Co are doing there thing and Axl is working on something for the last decade it will only build of more and more hype.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

With $13 million sunk into the project already, I doubt Geffen would release an incomplete album at this point.  They've already poured so much cash into the project they might as well let Axl finish it.  When it comes out, it shouldn't have any problem at least recouping what has been invested, I would be shocked if it didn't sell at least 2 or 3 million copies in the US and at least that much overseas.  Releasing an incomplete album doesn't make any sense, all it would do is damage the sales potential of Chinese Democracy and any future GnR albums.

In addition the Greatest Hits album is pretty much making Geffen free money off the GnR name and its sales almost doubled this week after the BTM special.  This means it's all the more likely that C.D. will be allowed to get completed