SLASH hearing CHINESE DEMOCRACY for the first time ...

[Izzy]

If im not mistaken, the lyrics as you said were entirely Izzys, and when Axl found the lyrics and took a liking to them and asked if Izzy had music to go with it, I think if memory serves me correct he only had rough work done on the musical side of Mr.Brownstone. So im going to take a guess and say Slash and Izzy perfected the music of the song while the lyrics were already long done. Your probably right about Steven, he was the most fucked up of any of the former bandmembers so I really doubt he can remember as clear as day lyric credits of over 17 years ago

Yeah u obviously read exactly the same thing i did. Why Steven felt the need to say Axl wrote everything - is he trying to suck-up to Axl? Surely he remembers who wrote what?

To slashedguns - its not rocket science working out Axl didn't write everything - he even said as much (hence what we have been talking about in this thread.....)

You don't have to insult people that actually read up about the band

[Midnight]

I guess i must be the only one smart enough to realise GNR was the efforts of 5 exceptional musicians and each played his part

I must be amazing in that i like both Slash and Axl and acknowledge both of their credits

I'm with you on that.

I also agree with 'page'.   There is no special formula required to come up with a rock tune, every guitarist is playing the same chords, it's how they are played and put together.   It's very rare something that has never been done before comes about.

[Izzy]

I guess i must be the only one smart enough to realise GNR was the efforts of 5 exceptional musicians and each played his part

I must be amazing in that i like both Slash and Axl and acknowledge both of their credits

I'm with you on that.

Not sure why other people can't like both Slash and Axl and acknowledge the whole bands contribution

Neither Slash or Axl put out the album on their own

[Midnight]

Not sure why other people can't like both Slash and Axl and acknowledge the whole bands contribution

Neither Slash or Axl put out the album on their own

I've been wondering about that myself.   If someone is a fan of Gn'R you think they'd have a huge respect for not just Axl and Slash but the band as a whole, it was while working together the albums came out and the music they made speaks for itself.   Together their talents shone, it was a group effort plain and simple.   Whoever may have played a bigger part in a certain song, and a lesser part in another...both are important and that is part of what being a band is all about, putting your heads together and mixing ideas until you have something that alone you may never have thought of.

You could have a good piece of music you thought of all alone, then a band member suggests something minor say a few notes played in a certain style which makes the piece complete, turning it into a great song.   Without that the song may have never been anything but a good song, or it could be reversed and you add a few minor details on another piece that was almost complete.   Then everyone throws all these other cool ideas they would love to fit into a song somehow into the melting pot, and together they create a proper song from them.   That is what a band do, every part no matter how minor is as important as the next, and credit should be given were credit is due.   Then we move into the deal of the frontman having a great voice and killer stage presence, that is good but it's better if he is backed up by a group of talented musicians, ie: a lead guitarist who can tear it up like few others can.   Then there is the lyrics but you get the picture.   Gn'R were so damn great because each member complimented the other on stage, and together wrote songs (lyrics and music) that will be remembered forever.

[justynius]

That must have been a massive studio that they recorded Appetite in,to fit all u guys in there.. You guys know everything,but  then again i think u know shit

You don't seem to understand that this isn't opinion or rumor. Ask any serious/semi-serious guitar player. The notes are the same.

[justynius]

Break down Slash's guitar parts into 8-note figures and you'll realize his "songwriting" consists of two things:
1) Taking riffs from 25+ years ago
2) Slightly altering the timing (without changing ANY of the notes)

Break down Axl parts and you realize his "songwriting" consists of two things:
1) Taking linies and words from 0-3000+ years ago
2) Slightly altering the timing ( without making ANY new words)

Except the difference is that Axl's words are not in the same order; the overall lyrics are original. My point was that Slash simply cuts-and-pastes (same notes in the same order, a little more/less time in between); none of his "songwriting" is inventive (or thus, irreplaceable). He uses a completely legal and common practice within the industry, but it probably detracts from the artistic merit and definitely makes his "songwriting" easily replaceable.

This really isn't a Axl vs Slash issue, but more of a difference between the replaceability of someone who writes lyrics to someone who writes cut-and-pasted guitar parts. Most contemporary guitar riffs are just cut and pasted, thus anyone with a music background is capable of repeating the same process. This is why it is not very hard to replace a person who writes the guitar parts for songs.... which is entirely contrary to what someone earlier in this thread implied (about missing Slash).

[Miz]

Break down Slash's guitar parts into 8-note figures and you'll realize his "songwriting" consists of two things:
1) Taking riffs from 25+ years ago
2) Slightly altering the timing (without changing ANY of the notes)

Break down Axl parts and you realize his "songwriting" consists of two things:
1) Taking linies and words from 0-3000+ years ago
2) Slightly altering the timing ( without making ANY new words)

Except the difference is that Axl's words are not in the same order; the overall lyrics are original. My point was that Slash simply cuts-and-pastes (same notes in the same order, a little more/less time in between); none of his "songwriting" is inventive (or thus, irreplaceable). He uses a completely legal and common practice within the industry, but it probably detracts from the artistic merit and definitely makes his "songwriting" easily replaceable.

Ok, this is a serious question...have you ever heard any Guns N' Roses songs?  Show me where any of the songs on Appetite have been ripped off note for note with just the timing changed.

If you're just talking about chord progressions then you really have no argument anyway.  There is no way you could find a song that in some way hasn't been influenced by something else.  You think someone didn't use the Stairway... chord progressions before Zeppelin?  You think Tony Iommi invented the flat 5th?  You think EVH invented tapping?  Does this mean they are replacable because they just adapted things?  NO.

Yes Slash is heavily influenced by old rock and blues, but no he does not just "cut and paste" stuff.

How can you call this fact?

[freddiebrph]

I guess i must be the only one smart enough to realise GNR was the efforts of 5 exceptional musicians and each played his part

No, you are not alone.   I tried to explain that Axl Rose is not GN'R and GN'R is not Axl Rose. Neither Slash, Duff, Izzy or Steven is GN'R. AFD and Lies was a result of 5 guys' collaboration. Some of them wrote chords, some of them riffs, some of them vocal melodies or lyrics or bass or drum parts, sometimes they worked together on things to create the best. In my opinion it was still GN'R after Steven was fired, but a different GN'R. After Izzy had left, we didn't hear new material. Slash's Snakepit is not GN'R, Loaded isn't GN'R, Izzy Stradlin' Band is not GN'R, Nu-GN'R is not GN'R, only the music of Axl and his new musicians. Maybe if they stayed together, it wouldn't be GN'R anymore, because the Real Guns N' Roses wrote their songs mostly together and not alone in different places of the USA.

This is one of the most intelligent and true post I have read on these boards in a long time. Why is it so hard to realize that axl is not gnr, and neither are the other guys. GNR are the members who got together and wrote some great music. If axl is only gnr, and does not need the others, THAN WHERE THE F--K IS THE NEW ALBUM. Stop making up these lame escuses like lawsuits and all the other bullshit we MAKE UP to keep the faith. The new guys FILLING in for slash, duff, and matt, will NEVER EVER see the success as the old GNR period!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buddha_Master]

The new guys FILLING in for slash, duff, and matt, will NEVER EVER see the success as the old GNR period!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep tellin yourself that dude. Maybe you should think about replacing that cystal ball you've been talkin to.

An for the rest of you on this lame ass dead horse topic...

This GNR, the one working on Chinese Democracy, is called Guns N' Roses. Keep telling youselves this isn't GNR. But the fact is, this is. Your bitching won't change it. Don't get pissy at what Im saying either. I am just stating fact.

When this album drops, and it owns, as expected, then you can judge it if its a GNR album or not.

Listen GOOD. A GNR album sometimes means more than the sums of its parts. It means quality. It means R&R evolved. It means an assault on your aural senses, Axl's voice and all. It means getting your ass kicked properly. GNR is a state of being, and when CD hits you upside your head, and the myth is revealed, it will then when it can be judged a GNR album or not. If it contains the top of the food chain musicianship, vocals and lyricts, and overall quality of song and flow.

Chinese Democracy is said to be Guns N' Roses evolved but, it is Guns N' Roses.

I wouldnt have it any other way.

[freddiebrph]

The new guys FILLING in for slash, duff, and matt, will NEVER EVER see the success as the old GNR period!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep tellin yourself that dude. Maybe you should think about replacing that cystal ball you've been talkin to.


This GNR, the one working on Chinese Democracy, is called Guns N' Roses. Keep telling youselves this isn't GNR. But the fact is, this is. Your bitching won't change it. Don't get pissy at what Im saying either. I am just stating fact.

When this album drops, and it owns, as expected, then you can judge it if its a GNR album or not.

I will keep telling myself that until proved wrong. I have no doubt that chinese d. will kick ass. I cant wait to hear it, and I am 99% sure that we will not be disappointed. But Fortunately, I got to see gnr in 1988, 1992, and 2002. Sorry to disapointment you, but GNR (THE REAL BAND) was a R&R at its best. Talk about kick your ass, they defined it. I will NEVER be convinced, until I hear the whole album) that this new band can compare. Dont get me wrong, I Like them, and wish axl all the success. The point I am trying to make is this: As a fan from the beginning, I will NEVER sit here and slam the guys, who along with axl, gave us all the great music we know as gnr. The few songs the band has let us hear are not bad. But dont kid yourself into thinking that OMG, and silkworms, are the songs TRUE gnr fans want to hear! The blues, CD, and mady are what we want and expect!

[Hammy]

Ok slightly off the topic of who did what on Appetite but like Izzy's been saying about the band being '5' musicians or in the UYI time a few more fact is all contribute.  Axl is happy enough to acknowledge it on the UYI2 booklet thanking Slash for Estranged i mean what Slash brought to that song on guitar was amazing but what Axl brought lyrically was equally amazing.  Every little bit of the band and musicians have contributed from the little things to backing vocals to who wrote what.  I mean i love Duff's backing vocals and listen to the new band and compare them to Finck's they are distinctly different what im saying is every little bit that they brought to the band was important with each different member on each album.  Like it has already been mentioned Think About You & Mr. Brownstone are Izzy songs he is one unsung hero not in the sense he did more than everyone but he made a big contribution like Axl and Slash and got very little credit outside many of the die-hard fans.  A band is only as good as all it's members.

[Midnight]

Ok slightly off the topic of who did what on Appetite but like Izzy's been saying about the band being '5' musicians or in the UYI time a few more fact is all contribute.  Axl is happy enough to acknowledge it on the UYI2 booklet thanking Slash for Estranged i mean what Slash brought to that song on guitar was amazing but what Axl brought lyrically was equally amazing.  Every little bit of the band and musicians have contributed from the little things to backing vocals to who wrote what.  I mean i love Duff's backing vocals and listen to the new band and compare them to Finck's they are distinctly different what im saying is every little bit that they brought to the band was important with each different member on each album.  Like it has already been mentioned Think About You & Mr. Brownstone are Izzy songs he is one unsung hero not in the sense he did more than everyone but he made a big contribution like Axl and Slash and got very little credit outside many of the die-hard fans.  A band is only as good as all it's members.

A very good post, I agree 100%.

As for whoever was going on about the new Gn'R being Gn'R so we gotta deal with it, well they are Gn'R by name only because everyone knows who will be remembered as Gn'R, hint - not whoever the hell is in the band now.   Deal with it?   Well we don't need to man because there is nothing from the new line up in the main stream...and an album, well it's on it's way like it has been for however many years.   So what exactly do we have to deal with, the fact some guys are claiming to be Gn'R.

[RnT]

what this thread turned to ?

??

[Doc Emmett Brown]

what this thread turned to ?

??

Dont act so innocent!  I could smell it a mile away that this thread will turn into an old vs. new GNR thing.  

I liked your original post, I think your idea is amusing, but it was tailor-made for the Slash haters to say "lmao! poor slash, etc, etc"   And what do you think is gonna happen next?

But anyway, it was cool seeing Slash pics on the main GNR forum.  

An idea for you: Why dont you make another photo story of a reunion of the old band?    Now I would love that, and you also know what that thread will turn into.