Behind The Music: GN'R (post your comments here)

[thinizzzy]

Another point to bitch about this shit show that u must've loved "Dizzy", is that adler was about as prominent as dizzy, gilby, or sorum.  So y is he featured when he had no song writing credits.  Like I said i'm goin off the top of my head, so if u can prove that he had credits then I will be glad to shut up, but the truth hurts.  Izzy was mentioned like three times and was only featured when they said he quit and had no info after that, basically reporting heresay and no research into it after that.  SO that equals no real story BEHIND THE MUSIC which was the point of the show, I don't wanna hear shit that I heard when he left I wanna know what really went down! Izzy was a major contributor to the song writing perhaps only next to Axl's lyrics.  But he wrote some lyrics and a good percentage of the song arrangements.  Behind Axl and Slash he was the 3rd most important gunner, sorry Duff ur my boy!, so when he left it was a major impass in the history of the band.  So sorry but to see a minute on that and watch 10 min. of "popcorn" (great name) just wasn't floating my boat, ok!  

So in hindsight as everyone knows the 4 cornerstones were Axl, Slash, Izzy, and Duff.  And Adler was just one of those other guys, so like I said the only reason to have him on for 10 min. was b/c he did the interview!  U think if Izzy or Duff nevermind Axl did the interview that he would've even been mentioned never mind called, I think not!  Boo-Yah!

[D]

personally adler is a great drummer, his drumming on afd is class

but really in myopinion drummers and bassists in most bands are replaceable with a few exceptions i mean u couldnt replace flea



to me honestly the drummin on the illusions is as good as the drummin on appetite, just like if u went to a motley crue show where the chick from hole or wherever was drummin im sure it didnt sound any different

facts are without adler appetite for destruction wouldve still been one of the biggest records of all time, take izzy,slash or axl away and it wouldnt have been

so i dont see how adler got screwed out of royatlies when royalties normally only go to the actual songwriters

drums usually dont count in the songwriting process

i believe what axl said in that rolling stone interview about givin steven some of his royalties, why would he lie about money

that being said adler is a fantastic drummer and i dig him tons more than matt sorum but honestly listening to his side of the story i just didnt see where he had much of a bitch

he was given ample warnings and chances to clean up or else, he chose his drugs over being in the band
so for him to say they took everything from him sounds like something axl would say not owning up to responsibility, facts are facts, undisputable at that

if adler had layed off the drugs he wouldve been in GNR for TSI

just like the first guitarist in def leppard who wouldnt get sober, steven left GNR no choice, he and his drug abuse were gettin in the way of GNR's vision and i blame only steven adler for that

[Booker Floyd]

So y is he featured when he had no song writing credits.

Because writing credits arent exactly everything...and all songs on AFD were written by Guns N' Roses, a band Adler happened to be in at the time.

Adler was featured more probably because he had the most "Behind The Music" kind of story.  What are they going to say about Izzy after he left?  Of course I wish they were more in-depth about everything, but when making an hour-long show, you think producers are going to focus more on Izzys solo career than Adlers downward spiral?

The show really should have been 2 hours - hell, 3 wouldve been more appropriate.  Theres just so much information.  What we got is a bare-bones overview, which is what I expected, but they really should have dedicated at least another hour to detail things such as...

Axls new-age spiritulaity fixation
"Sympathy For The Devil" and Paul Huge
Slashs Snakepit
Neurotic Outsiders/Loaded
Duffs near-death experience
Axls feuds with Vince Neil, magazines, etc.
"Look At Your Game Girl"
Live Era
The "Chinese Democracy" years with the new band
Stephanie Seymoure
Slashs hospitalization
"Oh My God"

etc., etc., etc.

So the special is good for casual listeners/viewers, but probably a bore to big fans.  But its always cool seeing that footage...

[Dizzy]

LOL, yea the only reason y they're not worth refuting is b/c u have nothing to back it up u smuck!  U can read the quote that someone put up about what Axl said about him a few posts ago, which I believe to be true.  And which I read in the RS interview when it came out.   So we can do this and look up shit if u want I'm goin off the top of my head  

You want to debate?  Go to the ex-gunners section and find one of the dozens of Steven debates in which I have participated, in which I have refuted dozens of ignorant anti-Steven comments.  Which certainly isn't difficult because the only thing anybody ever says about Steven is "He's a drug addict!  He's pathetic!  He's a loser!"  I don't think I've ever read anything more intelligent than that (and I use the word Intelligent very loosely), and certainly not in your ignorant, hackneyed statements.

So while this is an improper forum to hold such a debate, I invite you to venture over to the ex-gunners section and debate, because I'll debate this subject to the death, and I guarantee I'll have more evidence to buttress my side than you could ever dream of having, "SCRUB".

facts are without adler appetite for destruction wouldve still been one of the biggest records of all time, take izzy,slash or

so i dont see how adler got screwed out of royatlies when royalties normally only go to the actual songwriters

drums usually dont count in the songwriting process

I could debate this subject here, but again, this isn't the proper forum.  I've posted the account about Steven getting fucked out of his royalties several times, most of them can be found in "Steven" threads in the ex-gunners section.  I also addressed the Axl statements that were posted here, there are several instances of evidence which refute some of the things that Axl said there, as well as the shady, underhanded manner in which they terminated Steven.  I certainly invite you to discover some of the things I posted there.

Oh yeah, and Steven wasn't just screwed out of songwriting royalties, that also included royalties from CD sales, T shirt sales (which featured Steven's likeness), EVERYTHING.  Steven was defrauded of all royalties to which he was entitled from being in Guns N Roses.  I do concur that Steven bears responsibility with his former drug problems, but in no way does that justify the band fucking him out of the royalties to which he was entitled.

And keep in mind that when Steven sued Guns N Roses for this, the court ruled in his favor.

[Dizzy]

Okay, even though this isn't the proper forum, I have a suspicion that nobody is going to bother looking up my old posts on this debate in the other section.  So I'll post this here.

This is Steven's summary of his sworn deposition in his lawsuit against Guns N Roses.  I got this out of a "Rock n Roll court" article I once came across on the net, and I also think someone posted it at one of Steven's fansites not too long ago.   This isn't the actual deposition, it's Steven commenting on why he filed it.  Read it very carefully and you'll see that Steven addresses the statements that Axl made in that quote somebody posted.  I don't think he was actually responding to Axl's comments, because I think Steven said this in 1991, which was before that Axl interview.

Anyway, here it is....


They told me I had a drug problem, well, who the fuck were they to tell me that?  A couple alcoholics and heroin users?  Did they take some time in between fucking strippers to decide they were going to throw me out of the band?  Doug [Goldstein] took me to have an opiate blocker [in 1990], which made me very sick.  I told them [Slash & Duff] that I felt sick and couldn't record.  Slash told me we had to, because we couldn't waste the money.  I said "Money?  What about the money we wasted last year [referring to the 1989 Chicago rehearsal/recording sessions, in which only Slash, Duff, and Steven attended] when Izzy was cleaning himself up, and Axl was nowhere to be found?  Why was it okay for those guys to waste the money, but not me [in order to] get well?"  So anyway, they bring me into the studio and I feel like shit.  It took me forever to get the song [Civil War] right, and they got frustrated with me.  So next thing I know, Doug [Goldstein] has a stack of papers in front of me that I could never fucking read because they were about five inches thick!  He's telling me 'sign here, sign there' and telling me I was signing an agreement saying I was on "probation", meaning I was going to detox in time to record, or else.  But it turns out, those papers weren't really giving me that chance.  [After that] I don't hear a fucking thing from anyone for awhile, then I got these notices saying 'you're out of the band'.  Through my lawyers, I discovered that the "probation" papers that Doug had me sign were actually the rights to my partnership and all my royalties, which I was unknowingly signing away!  They completely screwed me out of everything, these guys, [who were] my friends, my family.  It hurt more than anything.  My royalties were from playing, writing, and [use of] my image such as t shirts and shit.  When we recorded [Appetite for Destruction], Slash came up with this system where whoever wrote got credit.  But then when it came time to actually divide them up, suddenly everybody was getting credit but me.  I mean, [for example] Izzy wrote the song "Think About You" by himself before we started playing it [rehearsing and performing it], yet Slash, Duff, and Axl were also going to be receiving royalties for it, since they supposedly "added to it".  I said, "well what about me?  Did I add nothing?"  I mean Izzy wrote the fucking song, I thought that's how the writing credits were determined, but the other guys were getting credit for something they didn't write, and I wasn't.  Same thing for all the other songs, Axl would get credit for songs such as "Brownstone" [written by Slash and Izzy] and "It's So Easy" [written by Duff and West Arkeen], even though he didn't write anything on them, and the other guys [who didn't write also got credit] too.  So why not me?  So Axl gave me a portion of his [to compensate for not being included], and my name was put beside the rest of theirs [in the writing credits] and that was that.  But now they've screwed me out of those royalties and my other ones too.  Two fucking albums [AFD and GNRL] that I played on are still selling and they're collecting money from them, and I'm not.  Guns N Roses T shirts with my face on them are still selling, and they're collecting money from them, and I'm not.  That's what they did to me, people I thought were my friends took it all away and said goodbye as if I never existed.  Fuck that!  That's why I [now] sue them, and I'm confident the jury will see it my way.

--Steven


And the jury did see it Steven's way, because they voted in his favor and awarded him rights to his royalties.  So there's refutation to some of what Axl said in his interview.  Though I am sure we'll still have the "Axl never lies or distorts the truth" crowd still insulting Steven.

[D]

since he got his royalties they  havent screwed him out of anything, thats my point, they may have initially but he's not being screwed anymore
that is fuckin shitty though takin advantage of him and trickin him into signing those papers, but im glad he won and got his share

his drummin does make some GNR classics, i was listening today and realized that

the part b4 "you know where u are......" part on the jungle that little tom fill he does is class
also the drum beat in paradise city makes paradise city and that drumbeat can be argued as being one of the most recognizable drum beats in rock history

also cant leave out rocket queen, i dont air guitar cause i can play guitar but where im not a great drummer i find myself air drummin some of stevens shit

especially the fill on mr brownstone right b4 the "stuck it in the middle sections

[Dizzy]

since he got his royalties they  havent screwed him out of anything, thats my point, they may have initially but he's not being screwed anymore

Well, I don't think he said that he is still being screwed, he meant that he was then.  And that's what I meant as well.

his drummin does make some GNR classics, i was listening today and realized that

Indeed, AFD would not have been nearly the record it was without Steven.  If you listen past Axl's and Slash's lead parts, you'll hear that it is Steven's rhythmic drumming that carries those songs.

[RumJungle]

Steven Adlers drumming on AFD kicks ass.  

I dont really like the way Matt Sorum played the Appetite songs on the Illusions tour, he didnt have that groove that Steven had.

But, Matt did a great job on the Illusions songs.  

OUT

[Walapino]

Hmm I wanted more of Izzy and Axl on the show but they declinde not to participate so I think they decided to focus on Steven and Slash who happened to be there to tell it.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

 So anyway, they bring me into the studio and I feel like shit.  It took me forever to get the song [Civil War] right, and they got frustrated with me.  So next thing I know, Doug [Goldstein] has a stack of papers in front of me that I could never fucking read because they were about five inches thick!  He's telling me 'sign here, sign there' and telling me I was signing an agreement saying I was on "probation", meaning I was going to detox in time to record, or else.  But it turns out, those papers weren't really giving me that chance.  [After that] I don't hear a fucking thing from anyone for awhile, then I got these notices saying 'you're out of the band'.  Through my lawyers, I discovered that the "probation" papers that Doug had me sign were actually the rights to my partnership and all my royalties, which I was unknowingly signing away!  They completely screwed me out of everything, these guys, [who were] my friends, my family.  

That's pretty shitting of GnR to do that to Steven, Atleast he got him fair share from Axl

[jivetalklinbitch]

I don't buy this whole thing with Adler...first of all...what did GN'R have to gain by kicking him out of the band? They had to replace him and pay the new drummer, right? Matt Sorum surely didn't work for peanuts...

There is just too much left out of this whole story...and again we'll never know because no one wants us to know...as is with many things surrounding Guns...that's just the way it is with them.

hey yo'

[Mr Cowbell ?]

They wanted a nice and cute 48 minute long GnR story and thats how they edited it. I am sure they do it to alot of other bands on BTM, its just with GnR there were so many riots, lineup changes, turmoil, they could never an accurate 1 hour story even at 2 hours it would be missing some.

I JUST WISH THEY WOULD MENTION DIZZY HE HAS BEEN IN GNR for 14 years. Give him a "lil" credit.

They mentioned Teddy Zig Zag for christ sake

[D]

matt said something like "axl was workin on a 64 piece masterpiece song and he was like "wtf"

i wonder if that was "this i love"?

[RnT]

sorry if already asked it, but where can I download the BTM ? I?m from Brazil ... don?t have VH1 or MTV

( NO, I DON?T USE THE HUB )

thanks
 

[Mr Cowbell ?]

matt said something like "axl was workin on a 64 piece masterpiece song and he was like "wtf"

i wonder if that was "this i love"?

Yeah it made Matt Sorum look like a deush when he said something along the lines of "I thought I was gonna join the greastest rock band on earth, then he brings in painos. WTF .....

Matt was expecting a free ride, and when he got it he wasnt happy with the direction of things...

What a selfish motherfucker

[D]

to answer the whole "the times have changed and axls songs wont be relevant anymore"
november rain was wrote over 20 years ago and it is still a great song so i dont buy the relevant argument!!

[badapple81]

Thanks to D, I finally got a tape of the show! Thanks D!  

I thought it would be a little more in depth than it was. Cool to finally see 'Rocket Queen', or Barbi as her name is.

I can't wait till the day when we hear Axl's side of the story. I wonder if Axl will write a book or something someday detailing his side of everything.

Matt Sorum really did sound like a dick when he said that shit about thinking he was signing up for a bad ass band etc..

You know.. that stuff he said about it not being brain surgery.. referring to post 1994 GN'R and writing a new album - guess it sums up the differences between the band and Axl. Their perception of the music and the future was just so different to Axl's that it was just destined to end. I think whilst the Illusions was happening, Axl already knew this.

What that guy from the RS magazine was right too, about trends in music changing 3 or 4 times while Axl has been working on the album. I guess that's a huge factor in why the album has been delayed for so long. Maybe Axl has moved away slightly from directions he had previously been heading in.

How cool was it to see the footage of all those people lining up for the UYI albums!

I've never been so eager for Chinese Democracy as I am now. GN'Rs music has been the biggest interest and hobby of my life, and although it was kinda sad and it sunk in when watching BTM that no former member of GN'R will ever play alongside Axl again, I just can't wait to hear the album.

[badapple81]

Couple of other things..

The part I most wanted to hear was missing.. the Paul Huge/Tobias story, the breakup.. everything 1994-1996/7.. the material that was being written.. all that stuff.

And when Axl was being interviewed in the back of the car about the St Louis riot, was he about to be arrested? He had the same t shirt and looked just the same as the photos of his arrest.

[Yourmother]

didnt dave navarro film a testimonial regarding playing on Oh My God?

[Eugene Klein]

I agree with those who say that AFD wouldn't be the same without Steven's work.
That guy added killer grooves and provided badass motor speeding to all the tunes. Just hear the band in those 80's gigs and you'll realize what Steven was about.

I'm sure this isn't the ultimate Gn'R documental so let's wait to hear the others. Not in the near future of course.