Just saw Van Halen in Philadelphia...Shame Axl burned this city.

[Acquiesce]

I don't recall GNR being banned from playing Philly again. I know at least one radio station (WMMR) said they were going to boycott any new GNR material until Axl issues an apology, but I never heard of it going beyond that.

[jarmo]

1. I think with your 5 posts you might be the fastest poster who's not Latigo to be banned from the forum (try not to tell Jarmo to not Shoot his mouth off)

Wrong.


My point was, the band didn't riot, the "fans" did.

I bet those fans have been at other shows as well and they just needed an excuse to riot. GN'R gave them that reason.

I have a hard time believing this would've happened if, say U2, had cancelled.


/jarmo

[C0ma]

1. I think with your 5 posts you might be the fastest poster who's not Latigo to be banned from the forum (try not to tell Jarmo to not Shoot his mouth off)

Wrong.


My point was, the band didn't riot, the "fans" did.

I bet those fans have been at other shows as well and they just needed an excuse to riot. GN'R gave them that reason.

I have a hard time believing this would've happened if, say U2, had cancelled.


/jarmo

I'm confused, was that supposed to be a response to my quote above? Becuase I agree it was that fans not the band to blame??

[jarmo]

"Wrong" was a reply to the part where you said he'd get banned for not agreeing with me.

People get banned for breaking the rules.


This reminds me, we've heard about the courtcase in Vancouver about the fans vs the police. Did anything happen in Philadelphia? Was anybody held responsible for the riot or was it just blamed on the band?

I remember how the Vancouver PD had a web site with pics of the rioters.


/jarmo

[C0ma]

the banning thing was a dig at your description............

back to the subject.

I don't recall any action taken by the Philly police to the extent that Vancouver took (as far as posting pictures of rioters) But were there as many injuries in Philly as there were in Vancouver?

[SLCPUNK]

Blame Clear Channel.

Those people at clear channel, with their beady eyes and flapping heads!  

 

[Buddha_Master]

VH actually showed up and played a great show, so don't tell Philadelphia to go suck a dick. I don't buy all that Clear Channel is to blame crap. Why would they not want the band to play a sold out arena? It would make no sense not to. And Jarmo, don't pin the riot all on the Philadelphian people. I'm sure a few bad apples particpated, but I'm willing to bet the majority of those poeple were not from Philadelphia. I'm sure you have no clue about the American East Coast, so I'll give you a little geography lesson. Philadelphia is an hour south of NY, and about an hour and a half north from Wash/Bal. (That's Washington D.C. and Baltimore Jarmo) Not to mention the fact that New Jersey is just a bridge toll away from the city. Thats a lot of people in the mid-atlantic region. If you didnt get tickets for the MSG show, chances are that many New Yorkers opted to go to the two Philly shows. I remember being in the parking lot, and there were tons of cars without PA plates. The Wachovia Center is one of the finest arenas in the country. My friends and I there that night were not about to take part in trashing the place where our Flyers and 76ers play. And I'm willing to bet that those there that night actually from the city were not going to give in a do something destructive. There is a strong Philly pride among the people that live here. Most of them would not want to see the place trashed. Also think about it, who would be more pissed off Jarmo, the guy who had drive and pay tolls to get to Philadelphia from someplace, or someone who actually lives in and this city who had at maximum a 20 minute ride to get to South Philadelphia. Who do you think would be more likely to throw a chair, or destroy a concession stand? Know what your talking about before you shoot your mouth off.

Don't tell Philly they can suck a dick? Lol. All I said was if they are going to go see VH but they won't see a future GNR show, then they can GO SUCK A DICK! ( or they can go Steven Adler themselves...however you want to put it).

If they are going to shun GNR because of what happened then them and their 76ers loving selves really do blow, and know what they can go do with themselves. What a bunch of cheese steak slobbing cry babies. They can keep VH. Eddie Van Halen...that prick should move there. Philly can have him.

[philafighter]

Ok, a couple things:

1. 70% of the people who did the rioting were from Philly?
Not a chance. You cannot argue intelligently on this subject becuase you have no clue as to the dynamic of this city. I would bet the bank that the majortiy of the people who did that rioting do not make Philadelphia their residence. I would bet that those responsible were from either NY/North Jersey, or South Jersey/Delaware. If you knew this city, you would know that they have had problems with outsiders from these areas. A few years ago there was a real full blown riot on South Steet in Center City on Madi Gras. Those morons were mostly from South Jersey and the outlying towns in PA. They come to Philadelphia on the weekends and treat the place like a zoo. Just like the people there that night treated the Wachovia Center like a zoo. The football stadium thing is so old I can't believe i even have to go into it. All of those problems were caused by the same drunk guys each week. The Eagles have finally gotten rid of that kind of element now that they've moved into their new stadium.

Every city has these kinds of outsiders who cause trouble and make the citizens of the city look bad. NY, Chicago, Detoit, ect ect. Its not right though that the people who actually live there take the blame for what happens.


2. This post does not have anything really to do with VH, i was just saying that rock and roll shows do very well here because of Philly's location as mentioned earlier in previous posts, and because the people who actually live here do go out and see these shows. I wasn't comparing the two bands at all. And how can you blame them for not wanting GNR to return? Axl is a guy who doesnt show up for concerts...concerts! Thousands of people are there to see this band. Even if Clear Channel canned him, common loyalty to one's fans would make him still go on stage and sing and play his heart out. But he didnt.

Inreguards to him not being welcome back: What are they supposed to do? Let him perform in the Art Museum so he can get that place all torn apart too? Maybe the Kimmel Center, Penns Landing, or you know what, how about we tear down William Penn and Axl can balence his fat ass on the top of City Hall and do a show? Let me ask you this Budda Master, lets say your the mayor of some city, whatever one you want, and GNR has already been a reason for a riot at your arena, are you really going to be welcome to the idea of them come back? Answer me that question truthfully, no bullshit please. Your a mayor, its an important job, people depend on you. Give me a serious answer on that one. What would you do?

The Philadelphia Police handled the situation in a calm and professional matter by the way for those you who want to so quickly put the city down for no reason. I just can't believe so many of you people cannot even send any blame GNR's way. "Ok, lets blame the Philadelphians, they're crazy, its their fault." That is simply not a fair assesment of what happened in terms of the people who constituted that mob, and who was responsible for that mob doing the damage that it did.  

[Acquiesce]

This reminds me, we've heard about the courtcase in Vancouver about the fans vs the police. Did anything happen in Philadelphia? Was anybody held responsible for the riot or was it just blamed on the band?

/jarmo

The police and the venue never pointed fingers. In fact, at first the venue denied that a riot even took place.  I guess they didn't feel necessary to get worked up over it since it was easy to control and there wasn't much structural damage done to the venue. For the most part it was just one huge clean-up job. Plus, it seems GNR took the biggest hit in the damage since their soundboard was destroyed.

Don't tell Philly they can suck a dick? Lol. All I said was if they are going to go see VH but they won't see a future GNR show, then they can GO SUCK A DICK! ( or they can go Steven Adler themselves...however you want to put it).

If they are going to shun GNR because of what happened then them and their 76ers loving selves really do blow, and know what they can go do with themselves. What a bunch of cheese steak slobbing cry babies. They can keep VH. Eddie Van Halen...that prick should move there. Philly can have him.

Overreacting much? Aren't you the one telling people to relax and find some humor in the situation? I really doubt that Philly decided to ban GNR. I'm sure they won't turn down the chance to make a quick buck, especially if CD is doing well their next time around. However, I can't say I would blame them for being unwilling to let them play because they are so unreliable and pose as a financial risk to these venues. Unfortunately, the fans of Guns N Roses are hot-headed and a cancellation could quickly turn into a violent and dangerous situation.

In the end it's all about the money. If they feel GNR is worth the risk, they won't stop them from playing. However, if GNR isn't doing well and still poses as a threat, they may think twice. I highly doubt they would ban them but who knows.

[Buddha_Master]

Overreacting much? Aren't you the one telling people to relax and find some humor in the situation? I really doubt that Philly decided to ban GNR. I'm sure they won't turn down the chance to make a quick buck, especially if CD is doing well their next time around. However, I can't say I would blame them for being unwilling to let them play because they are so unreliable and pose as a financial risk to these venues. Unfortunately, the fans of Guns N Roses are hot-headed and a cancellation could quickly turn into a violent and dangerous situation.

In the end it's all about the money. If they feel GNR is worth the risk, they won't stop them from playing. However, if GNR isn't doing well and still poses as a threat, they may think twice. I highly doubt they would ban them but who knows.

Im not overreacting at al and I couldnt be much more relaxed then I am now (Im at work, but we just partied during our lunch break so its cool). Shit I laughed when I typed that because i know my shit is the shit. My humor may not be your cup of tea, but you cant please everyone all the time.

So dont worry about me man...im lucid. And if Philly wont have GNR back, I dont think Axl would lose any sleep over it. In fact I think he'd laugh his ass off. I know I would.

[philafighter]

You still didnt answer my question budda, what would you do if you were the Mayor, or just some city offical who had the power to ban a performance. You know what, forget that its even GNR. Just some band or entertainer who has caused damage to a arena in your city. How would you proceed?

[C0ma]

You still didnt answer my question budda, what would you do if you were the Mayor, or just some city offical who had the power to ban a performance. You know what, forget that its even GNR. Just some band or entertainer who has caused damage to a arena in your city. How would you proceed?

Guns N Roses didn't cause damage in the city......fans caused the damage. Just because he didn't show up doesn't give every asshole in the building the right to riot. and by residents of Philly, most people mean the people who live in the metro area not just the city limits. So in that respect 70% of the rioters (just an estimate, but probably pretty close) caused the problem. New York and D.C. residents aren't the reason that there was a jail below Veterans Stadium. Does MSG have a jail?? Does FedEx Field have a jail?? Did the Boston Gargen have a jail?? No, No, and No............But Philly's stadium did? I find it odd that there was a riot by fans in a place like that.

[Buddha_Master]

Alright, sorry I missed that question.

What your asking is very relative. Obviously the venue lost some money the night GNR didnt show, unless they were compensated. But especially as a Mayor you have to consider what business this does bring. A Mayor wouldnt be doing his job if he didn't allow someone into the city that  would keep businesses from making profit earnings. Safety is one concern as is public relations. But they are 2nd (sometimes unfortunately) to that of the Big Businesses. If GNR release CD, and it is as we would expect it to be, and becomes huge, Having GNR do there thing in one of the Venues there, would bring a lot of business (aka money) in. And in the business world, that is everything.

[Buddha_Master]

Oh, so to answer your question phila...I would absolutely allow GNR back in. If I was Mayor I would (as they do already) leave it up to these venues to dictate whether they want them or not...if they see $$ signs at the the end of the rainbow. These businesses, contribute to my campaign (and pay for my vacations).

So as a politician, especially one in Philly (for some reason I am liking fucking with Philly today) They would bend over and take it like a good boy (like every other politician).

[bill213]

First all no GNR was not banned from Philadelphia........that was just news reporters talking shit.
Second for all those in attendance it wasn't a riot.  It was a few damned people on the floor trashing the soundboard, i think about two fights and a few people upon the upper rows throwing trash and a few seats when the arena was basically already emptied.  I stayed until almost the very end when everyone was gone and it wasn't this big giant death riot.  I think it was classified as a small disturbance.  But GNR would easily be able to play in Philly again if they offerend an apology and a guarentee to the city.

[K-Rock]

This reminds me, we've heard about the courtcase in Vancouver about the fans vs the police. Did anything happen in Philadelphia? Was anybody held responsible for the riot or was it just blamed on the band?

I remember how the Vancouver PD had a web site with pics of the rioters.

/jarmo

Contrary to Bildo's response....yes it was in fact "deemed" a riot but it was a riot which did not feature any anger or action against the Philadelphia Police Officers.

It was a riot which only featured property damage.

The police officers showed up, lined up with batons in hand and waited for the opportunity to crack some heads.  

I believe most people were from Philly and had knowledge of what it would have been like if they had rioted against the police or ignored orders to leave calmly.

It would have been far worse than Vancouver incident had most of the aggressors not gotten ALL of their angst out while inside the First Union Center.

People don't fuck with Philly cops.

[Cousin It]

I'll preface this by saying that I spent almost ten years of my life in the Philly 'burbs. And yes I was at the "disturbance". It was an interesting night to say the least. It's pretty hard to point fingers, as nobody knows for sure what happened. However, I will say that a high number of Philly fans are classless. As already noted, they had to have a jail and a temporary courtroom in their football stadium. Other examples......booing Santa Claus, booing a hall of fame palyer who played for the Phillies, and numerous physical assaults in the stands.

Philafighter, I have a proposition for you. This football season when your beloved Eagles are playing, say the Dallas Cowboys. You wear a Cowboys cap and jersey and make a lap around the stadium in the upper deck area. And then, if you make it out without any permanent damage, please feel free to enlighten us about your beloved fans and city.

[philafighter]

Bildo: So your saying the Philadelphia Inquirer was wrong in when they said GNR wouldnt be welcomed back. Interesting. I've already written to the newspaper to confirm this.

Budda: So Axl can just keep up with his old tricks and no one is responsible. This was not a bad riot, Bildo was correct in saying. But what happens if this happens again and things are worse. Heavy damage, many injuried, someone dies. Where does Axl's responsibilty come into play, if you feel it does at all.

Coma: You still don't understand the dynamic of this city. It is said over and over again and again that Philadelphians caused this problem. And you've proved my point, the "metro area" of Phiadelphia is South Jersey, North Delaware, and eastern PA. They are the same one's who participated in that riot on South Street that i mentioned. The metro area is not representative of the people one would find walking down broad street or hanging out at Love Park. These metro people live in their rich sub-burb homes all week in East PA, Jersey, and Del, and then come to town and treat our city like their own playground. And the Vet Stadium jail...Jesus, that is so old. That jail was put there to arrest the same groups of guys each week who would cause trouble. The most notorious group was called the dirty 30. They were a few sections of guys in the nosebleed seats who would cause trouble. Think of it as your drunk uncle who ruins birthdays. Anyway, Vet stadium was old and crappy at that time, and many decent people refused to buy tickets to go there. So you had these ruff neck yahoos come in and buy cheap seats, and drink cheap light beer and caused problems. Things are different today. Lincoln Financial is the new football stadium and it is the best in country. There is no jail anymore because those guys who caused problems cant afford going to the nice stadium. So there is no jail anymore and that arguement and topic should be laid to rest just like Vet Stadium was.
Also, dont even get me started on New York and bad behavior. I could write a book on all of the outragious behavior New York fans have done, come on.

[C0ma]

Lincoln Financial is the new football stadium and it is the best in country.

according to Philly fans........ most media acctually call Gillette Stadium in Foxboro MA the best stadium in football, but thats niether here nor there.

I know you don't want ot hear it but the rest of the country considers the 'metro' area fans....'Philly' fans....
Same things happens in Boston with the South and North Shore areas.....Nationally thats Boston as far as Sports and Music fans go. I can tell you right now if the Boston concert was cancelled and the fans rioted, and in 2006 Guns N Roses toured for CD, City officials wouldn't think twice of letting them play the Fleet Center. because as Budda said it brings business to the area.......hotels, bars, etc..

[bill213]

Bildo: So your saying the Philadelphia Inquirer was wrong in when they said GNR wouldnt be welcomed back. Interesting. I've already written to the newspaper to confirm this.

Okay chief check it out.....just because the turd that wrote that article in the inquirer, which I have and I'll dig it out to make it exact, felt as if GNR shouldn't be welcomed back to Philly, doesn't mean that GNR isn't allowed to play there.  I'm sure a lot of fans would jump at a gnr show, but It would behove Axl to first offer an apology to the city and something very special like a free show or an extended show to make up for it.

And just for everyone that wasn't at this show, when Mix master mike was finished with his extended set of shit, the arena seemed to taunt the fans by having GNR's equipment set up and dimming the lights as if GNR were to pop up.  After about 15 minutes of waiting fans starting getting restless and chanting Asshole.  Then the first thing to start the disturbance broke out when A person in the seats by where i was threw a basketball onto the equipment to the right of the stage (if you're facing it).  Then drinks started flying at it.  Next thing someone hit Dizzy's keyboards with a drink and that's when they started covering the equipment.  The lights all came on and they made the announcment at around 11 oclock.  A full hour after the fans had been heating up.  It then started with a few fans on teh floor level throwing their seats, People from the top where i was were ripping their binoculars from underneath the seats.  A few fans actually ripped the seats from the metal backing.  A few went flying but no one was hit.  Down on the floor their was like 2 or 3 fights, a few guys starting throwing stuff at the soundboard. They started removing the bands instruments frmo the stage and then the cops came and everyone left without any large incidence.  Out side a few fans were burning GNR t-shirts around the stadium while news camera's were filming.  Other than that the cops really had to use no force, but they did show up with batons and shield just incase.