What New GNR can learn from Velvet Revolver's juggernaut

[Minneapolisnewsman]

So does anyone think it's time for Axl to convene the forces and get the show on the road--like this could be the moment?

BTW--anyone catch that NY Ritz fantasy plug.  LOL!!

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

I feel that there were 2 very good reasons to do the 2002 tour they did.

1) To let the world get to know the players as Guns N' Roses (hence playing the old songs)

2) To allow the players the experience of playing together that builds the chemistry that is necessary for a band.

and about the size of the shows...  I believe the smallest attendance they had was approximately 6 thousand and the largest being 15 - 20,000 (not sure on the largerst number - if anyone knows I welcome the info).  A club/theatre tour (if this was even an option for them) would have left many, many fans out of the shows.  As far as playing the smaller towns/cities - if they had 'skipped' them (again, if this was even an option for them) again - it would have left many fans out in the cold.

about the 3 albums - sure, no one can prove their existense.... but, is it really beyond the realm of possibiity - probability even - considering the amount of time that the material has been in production?

regarding marketing and promotion - I agree that nothing will or should happen or be said at all until everything is ready to go - the album is signed sealed and delivered mixed and mastered.  Then a release date announcement.  After that the record company, having a major investment in the balance - will, I believe, do everything right as far as promotion, adverstising, marketing, etc.   (btw: how awesome were the tour radio adverts!?)  The band likewise, I believe, will do the right thing. Its their baby - I'm sure they will be proud to make the proper announcements, appearances, etc.

A lot of the pre Contraband promotion was about the evolving of VR.
We have already seen this with Guns N' Roses.  (thats what the past few years have been - including the one-off shows and the tour).

[Minneapolisnewsman]

Well, VR have created a street credible buzz, Axl had a circus that drew a crowd, but eroded the base.  VR's base is growing, due to the wise decisions they made.  Moreover, RCA did a great job of not over-promoting this product, but promoting in the right places at the right time.  VR is going to debut at #1, and up to this point, it seems they could be leading a revival of modern rock.

[DRUNK]

and up to this point, it seems they could be leading a revival of modern rock.

 ::)Yeah, right.  They FUCKING SUCK!  They're not going to lead shit.  The material isn't going to inspire anyone.


They'll go number one, and then the album will drop off the charts immediately.  There is no long term value for that material.  It is all sold on hype so far.  

[matt88]

GNR's 2002 tour should have been a theatre tour, with then secondary arena dates scheduled in the following markets:  Toronto, LA, New York, Miami, Philly, Phoenix, Mexico City, Rio, Tokyo, London, Sydney, and Paris.

Now THAT'S a good idea!  

Yeah ur tellin me

[Mikkamakka]

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

But they didn't get back. Every 'band'member is on holiday since then. This band does not exist. I wonder when they've met all together or only with Axl, 'cause it's been months they had a conversation with Axl - on telephone.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

To the people who insist the whole three album thing is a myth.

Brian May stated a few years ago that Axl had 3 complete albums worth of material that axl had him listen to, he also said Axls singing on the songs were outrageous, so those 3 albums also had vocal tracks on them. Brian May is not in gnr nor he is associated with them, it was just a few throw away questions in the middle of a Brian May interview about what he did in gnr and what he heard.  So why would Brian May lie about there being 3 albums done? What is so hard to understand about this?

Well whoop-dee-freakin'-doo! Brian May said that Axl had three albums worth of material.

So what!

I don't see any albums. I don't see Axl dropping a release date. I don't see a band that does ANYTHING. This is not a band that I see.

So you guys can sit back and sing all day long about 3 albums if it make you feel better. But he hasn't given us jack shit, and he probably won't!

IF a tree drops in the forrest and you do not see it, does that mean there really is not a tree?

People asked for proof that axl had 3 albums of material, a person that is not axl, and you got it, so stop claiming there are not 3 albums.  Were you in the studio to prove axl wrong? No you were not, but May was, so he knows better that you or who ever else doubts it.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Well, VR have created a street credible buzz, Axl had a circus that drew a crowd, but eroded the base.  VR's base is growing, due to the wise decisions they made.  Moreover, RCA did a great job of not over-promoting this product, but promoting in the right places at the right time.  VR is going to debut at #1, and up to this point, it seems they could be leading a revival of modern rock.

You are kidding me right?
I really hope you dont believe that.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

But they didn't get back. Every 'band'member is on holiday since then. This band does not exist. I wonder when they've met all together or only with Axl, 'cause it's been months they had a conversation with Axl - on telephone.

You saying that they didn't get back is pure speculation on your part.  So is saying that every band member has been on holiday since then.

Just because there is a comment from a band member about last speaking to axl on the phone a few months ago does not prove either of your statements.

Just because the band members have done/been doing solo work doesn't prove your statement.

You said they didn't get back.  I say they did.  Don't argue things that can't be proved right now.

You say this band does not exist.  I say it does.   I can't offer proof because they haven't released an album yet and the are not currently touring.  Yet, that doesn't prove they don't exist.  (Ever heard the saying about trying to prove a negative?)  Again, lets not argue what can't be proved.  

Anyway, I thought this thread was about thoughts and ideas about GN'R promoting thier album when its ready?  

If you wanna talk explore your theory about the band not existing you should start another thread.  

[Mutherfunker]

Crap, crap, and more crap!

Before I start on the original points...

What is so difficult to comprehend about the idea that Axl has a lot of material (enough for three albums) and plans to eventually release at least three albums? If he said that, why is it so difficult to believe? It's pretty simple and even obvious isn't it? Dumbest plan ever? To difficult to comprehend? How can anyone making these comments not be classed as a total idiot?

VR leading a revolution? What planet are you living on. Why do people here live in fantasy land? The album sounds great and I have every respect for them, but there ain't gonna be no 'revolution'. On top of that Minneapolisnewsman, you state:

"VR have created a street credible buzz, Axl had a circus that drew a crowd, but eroded the base.  VR's base is growing, due to the wise decisions they made.  Moreover, RCA did a great job of not over-promoting this product, but promoting in the right places at the right time."

How the fuck do you know? We've got no sales figures yet, no evidence of anything your saying. I'm glad we can congratulate RCA on a great job despite not producing any results yet. I think I might aswell congratulate Axl on the great album that is Chinese Democracy  

And the rest.....

1) Releasing a single for a movie, and then promoting it, making a video to go all over the internet, and pumping it for radio play was VR's first brilliant move. OMG could have been significant, imho, if only a video and push was made for radio play. Moreover, a few 'secret gigs' playing about four or five new songs at that time would have primed the band for a huge return. Instead, we get Axl's forced explanation, and nothing. No radio interviews, no gigs, no video, no net streaming.

Are GNR trying to promote anything yet? No. Why would they want to promote OMG? Secret gigs to prime the band? Well GNR did start with a small venue in LV. Also, what do you mean 'prime them for a return'?

2) Rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal! It is obvious, that VR rehearsed vigorously before they recorded. They were able to cut a solid rock album in about two months of recording. Strikingly, I think Frontline mentioned that recording costs were very low and that this came from all FIVE members being at rehearsals and contributing. The albums production is perfect! It is important to work hard at whatever trade one chooses--and if you are a musician, practice and most importantly practicing interaction with other players is a must. You must learn how to "team" write if you are hoping to be a great band. Solo writing is for solo artists. Great rock bands depend on a freight train-cohesive rhythm section for the leads to 'snake' around--this fusion in the writing and playing comes from hours of learning each bandmembers intricacies, and leads to the magic. If only Axl and co. would rehearse together. I am sure they have some, like before Rio, and their aborted tour, but from what I gather personally, and from the new bandmembers comments Axl is still AWOL from sessions, and does his vocal parts solo. Not good--not really a band.

Riiiighttt...... so you've been with the band have you? Seeing how they haven't spent any time together. The whole of CD has been written individually? GNR haven't rehearsed together? It's funny how people here go mad when someone believes in something Axl said, but people just accept as fact any old crap that is just random guesswork. If they wrote all the songs together musically and laid it down so they all liked it and even contributed some lyrics maybe and then Axl has to just record the vocals, why the fuck would the band need to be there for that?

How ingenious to do a theatre tour to build buzz! How frickin simple and practical! How financially sound, and wow what a way to make the product desired.

When VR sold out their theatre tour in ten minutes--it became a headline. Moreover, the ticket became a hot item: "it's a sold out show!"
Start with reality, and work into the stadiums. Moreover, the bootlegs sound quality is ten times better.

When GNR start doing things on tour or when recording just to be financially sound and just to sell a product, then I will give up. I hope VR didn't do these shows for that reason. As for headlines, I think the return of GNR spoke for itself.

Moreover, due to better acoustics and intimacy--reviews tend to be better. The press, just a many music fans, love the blue-collar nature of dirty rock bands, playing dirty theatres with smoke filling the place, and booze pouring.

Again, if that's what you are as a band, fine. You shouldn't do things to get better reviews and impress the press. The new GNR are not the old GNR, imagine robin, buckethead, and Axl doing that! It wouldn't work unless your expecting them all to dress in leather and act like rockers as well. That would be selling out!

4) Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll! It sells, it works! VR embrace their dangererous past, and promote danger in vigorous ways. Axl's PR man should tell him to quit cutting down Slash in a condescending way for being loaded, and just embrace the story and explain just how crazy those days were. Stay a bad-ass. The fans want a rock star, and if that is your trade, embrace it.

Same again. New GNR are not from the eighties. They are trying to do something new.

IMHO, Axl's strength has always been his ability to put emotion into std. Stones type rock songs--the players and talent to rock are there (Stinson, Finck, Fortus, Brain, and Dizzy are stars in their own right) now get in the room and cut thirteen rockers written by everyone. Rehearse, quickly and spontaneously record and schedule theatre dates.

Anybody can see that this VR record was laid down a little too quickly, and the full potential of the band hasn't been fulfilled. They can do even better if they take a little more time

6) Sanctuary should ride the coattails of VR's rock revival and the buzz coming from the Behind the Music and a possible Press field day with a GNR vs. GNR competition. It could be the last chance, and a perfect chance, to explode within their own means and have street creditibility at the same time.

You've got to be joking..... right?

Your whole thread talks about VR's great tactics. Firstly these are all the obvious things a band like VR should do, they haven't done anything extraordinary. Secondly, you CAN NOT EVER compare the processes for promoting VR and their album with the things GNR should do before releasing CD. Different band, different look, different music.

P.S. VR and juggernaut should not be used in the same sentence.

Phew, got that out my system  

@#$%Muther

[Neemo]

I agree with SLCPUNK and Old Man.  If he had 3 albums of material 2 years ago how come we haven't heard any of it? (aside from the 5-6 songs) I'll believe in CD when I hear it. Not before, how many release days has it had? How many cancellations. Come on people. You can't honestly take anything said about this 'Chinese Democracy' album to heart. There's been so much said about it but with no action.  Maybe Axl called it "Chinese Democracy" because like actual Chinese democracy, IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!  That would be like his sense of humor wouldn't it?! Well? Wouldn't it? (sorry if this thought has been voice before.)

[justynius]

VR is going to debut at #1, and up to this point, it seems they could be leading a revival of modern rock.

I was really excited after hearing "Slither," that was a refreshing track that was as good as anything Old Guns had put together (without trying to be GN'R). Unfortunately, that is the only song on the record that will have any success. They have put up the full record on several internet sites (Rolling Stone was where I heard it) and it sucks. Nothing but cliches and groans on top of Slash's guitars. "Set Me Free" is probably the second best song. It's obvious they just put a lot of effort into one big track as a selling point, and crammed together the rest. VR might be better off not releasing anymore singles, because if songs like "Sucker Train Blues" and "Fall to Pieces" start showing up on the radio, the record will be immediately pigeon-holed into a one hit wonder category. If "Slither" is the only thing the general public has heard, people will like that song and be tricked into buying the record thinking there is more where that came from.

The Michael Jackson stuff was a joke, Snakepit was horrible, VR was a failure but a much more valiant effort. Maybe next time Slash hits it because he's been getting better with each try. Unfortunately, Velvet Revolver is not it.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Here is something GN'R can learn from VR....

once the album is out - its time for the bandmembers to stop telling people how good it is    
time to let the music speak for itself
sure do your videos and release your radio singles...
do your interviews and appearances / photo ops etc.
do your shows...
but let the MUSIC speak for itself
its kind of embarrassing (or you would think it would be for them) to keep talking  themseves about how dangerous and sexy the album and the band is.  If its dangerous and sexy you don't have to tell people that!  They'll figure it out!

Any more advice?  Oh, tell Chris Pittman if he bangs 18 yr old chicks everyday just because he is in Guns N' Roses - to keep it to himself.  And uh... tell Brain that if he ever shoved a crack pipe up his ass - we dont' wanna know about it.  

The music will speak for itself people.

 

[Mutherfunker]

I agree with SLCPUNK and Old Man.  If he had 3 albums of material 2 years ago how come we haven't heard any of it? (aside from the 5-6 songs) I'll believe in CD when I hear it. Not before, how many release days has it had? How many cancellations. Come on people. You can't honestly take anything said about this 'Chinese Democracy' album to heart. There's been so much said about it but with no action.  Maybe Axl called it "Chinese Democracy" because like actual Chinese democracy, IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!  That would be like his sense of humor wouldn't it?! Well? Wouldn't it? (sorry if this thought has been voice before.)

I understand your point. But just because we haven't heard them yet does not make the idea of having that much material, or planning to release three albums ridiculous/fantasy/unbelievable. It's perfectly reasonable. There has been a lot of crap talked about it, but this seems a lot more reasonable and normal than some things that have been said.

@#$%Muther

[darkmonth]

3)  How ingenious to do a theatre tour to build buzz!  How frickin simple and practical!  How financially sound, and wow what a way to make the product desired.  MAKE IT EXCLUSIVE, SOLD OUT, AND INTIMATE FOR YOUR DIE-HARD FAN BASE.  MOREOVER, IF YOU SCREW UP, ONLY 2000 PEOPLE SEE IT, AS OPPOSED TO 9,000.

When VR sold out their theatre tour in ten minutes--it became a headline.  Moreover, the ticket became a hot item:  "it's a sold out show!"  
Start with reality, and work into the stadiums.  Moreover, the bootlegs sound quality is ten times better.  

GNR's 2002 tour should have been a theatre tour, with then secondary arena dates scheduled in the following markets:  Toronto, LA, New York, Miami, Philly, Phoenix, Mexico City, Rio, Tokyo, London, Sydney, and Paris.

Could one imagine the press they would have received had they scheduled 25 theatre dates (2000 seaters) and the inevitable sell out of all dates on the same day it went on sale?  That is how a band generates buzz.  Moreover, due to better acoustics and intimacy--reviews tend to be better.  The press, just a many music fans, love the blue-collar nature of dirty rock bands, playing dirty theatres with smoke filling the place, and booze pouring.

Yep, that's it. VR did a theatre tour as a strategic move to "intimate the fan base" and create better sound quality for bootleggers. It had nothing to do with the fact that they'd come nowhere close to selling enough tickets to have an even halfway successful concert tour.

Thats ludicrous.  Of course they didn't go for a fucking concert tour (I assume you mean arenas and stadiums).  For fuck sake... even Axl's band had problems doing that (as overall sales figures will blatantly prove).

VR needs to settle itself and make sure it can do that kind of shit before entering into a foolish business decision like that.  However, I am certain that they will be doing arenas next year.

[Death Cube K]

how many release days has it had? How many cancellations

No release days and therefore no cancellations.

Get your facts straight. Chinese Democracy have never had an official release date. If you want to discuss then at least get the history right. Go check with Sanctuary or any other possible label. There has never been a release date. VR had a release date and it got pushed back and then released. See? Easy?

[Neemo]

I don't know about perfectly reasonable. or even reasonable.  I would say maybe possible. But with so many let downs on speculated release dates, I'm just not optimistic anymore. If it comes out perfect! if not I'll listen to something else.

On that note, VR, imo, have some pretty good tracks, and I am, overall, happy with the album, I don't think it sucks ass as some people suggest. It's definately not Guns just as it's definately STP (I love both bands, btw) it's Velvet Revolver! They are a new band with a new sound and IMO shouldn't be judged against their respective former bands, it's not fair. You can definately hear some STP at times as well as some G'n'R type music at times. But if you are expecting STP "Core" or G'n'R "AFD" you are gonna be let down. Besides thats pretty high standards. Don't you think?

[Mikkamakka]

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

But they didn't get back. Every 'band'member is on holiday since then. This band does not exist. I wonder when they've met all together or only with Axl, 'cause it's been months they had a conversation with Axl - on telephone.

You saying that they didn't get back is pure speculation on your part.  So is saying that every band member has been on holiday since then.

Just because there is a comment from a band member about last speaking to axl on the phone a few months ago does not prove either of your statements.

Just because the band members have done/been doing solo work doesn't prove your statement.

You said they didn't get back.  I say they did.  Don't argue things that can't be proved right now.

Great idea, I will start a new topic. But Tommy said that after the 2002 'tour' the band went to holiday. Later he said that they'll be back together rehearsing from 2003 September. It didn't happen, Tommy has been doing his solo album since then. Maybe they have a new bass player?

Richard Fortus said that he recorded his parts 2 years ago, then went to the tour, and nothing.

Robin Finck's on holiday, working on his new look.

Aunt Ger can surely tell if Dizzy did any work with the other guys in the last 18 months.

Buckethead left.

That's it.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Crap, crap, and more crap!

 

Riiiighttt...... so you've been with the band have you? Seeing how they haven't spent any time together. The whole of CD has been written individually? GNR haven't rehearsed together? It's funny how people here go mad when someone believes in something Axl said, but people just accept as fact any old crap that is just random guesswork. If they wrote all the songs together musically and laid it down so they all liked it and even contributed some lyrics maybe and then Axl has to just record the vocals, why the fuck would the band need to be there for that?

 
I know we're not supposed to post just to say "I agree"...
but what you said is so true I had to applaud it.

When GNR start doing things on tour or when recording just to be financially sound and just to sell a product, then I will give up... You shouldn't do things to get better reviews and impress the press.

once again - well said
making sure to play small venues just so you can appear like a bigger fish in a small pond?

and rehearsing to the point that when you go into the studio its rote?  Musicians creativity should not be limited to this.  What is being suggested - that in the studio there should be a sign "Play it like we rehearsed it.  No fucking around.  We are on the clock.  No creativity allowed here."  

Not for nothing... but when is (having) less money (to spend) ever better than (having) more money?
 

Your whole thread talks about VR's great tactics. Firstly these are all the obvious things a band like VR should do, they haven't done anything extraordinary. ... you CAN NOT EVER compare the processes for promoting VR and their album with the things GNR should do before releasing CD.

I agree.  GN'R should do whatever the fuck they want.
Axl Rose hasn't shown his face on TV in the states but 2 times in the past decade yet he is still recognized as one of rock's biggest stars.  

Sometimes the best appetizer/foreplay is a taste/tease.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

But they didn't get back. Every 'band'member is on holiday since then. This band does not exist. I wonder when they've met all together or only with Axl, 'cause it's been months they had a conversation with Axl - on telephone.

You saying that they didn't get back is pure speculation on your part.  So is saying that every band member has been on holiday since then.

Just because there is a comment from a band member about last speaking to axl on the phone a few months ago does not prove either of your statements.

Just because the band members have done/been doing solo work doesn't prove your statement.

You said they didn't get back.  I say they did.  Don't argue things that can't be proved right now.

Great idea, I will start a new topic. But Tommy said that after the 2002 'tour' the band went to holiday. Later he said that they'll be back together rehearsing from 2003 September. It didn't happen, Tommy has been doing his solo album since then. Maybe they have a new bass player?

Richard Fortus said that he recorded his parts 2 years ago, then went to the tour, and nothing.

Robin Finck's on holiday, working on his new look.

Aunt Ger can surely tell if Dizzy did any work with the other guys in the last 18 months.

Buckethead left.

That's it.

Psst...  there are things that go on that we don't know about.
Believe it or not - its not like everything that goes on is posted abot on the internet.  There are people who know things who don't talk about it on the internet.  

shocking, isn't it!