Slash can't compare VR with anything

[Falcon]

In musical terms, something that extends beyond the music itself. Something that has relevence beyond the specific arena it's associated with. Something that makes people have different views and look at things in a different light.  Something that influences social perceptions at the time and musical perceptions of the future.

But you're here daily on a GnR message board 10 years later man, you couldn't have thought it was that bad.  It obviously affected you.  

So it may not have been socially relevant, but it's a hell of a story, a spectacle, a tragedy and a triumph and that's kind of cool.  

AFD affected me greatly.  It still does to this day, 17 years later.

To the same degree, UYI put me off the band.  It still does, 13 years later.

Luckily, I can now distinguish both eras and have a clear view on each, and hopefully discuss both in an informed, thought provoking manner.

And yes Freya, it's a helluva story.  No doubts here.

[Dizzy]

Dizzy you have no clue what you are talking about.

Sorry Dave, I already said that.  Beat you to it.

What slash said was a dig at Axl and you cannot even try to say otherwise.

Oh yes I can, and yes I will.  But it's useless to try and convince you otherwise, because in your eyes, EVERYTHING Slash says is a dig at Axl, because as I said, it's "The Whole World vs Axl" to you.

If slash meant what you are saying, slash would have said when it was still cool to be in gnr but he did not. HE said when Gnr was still cool.

Nope, he meant what I said he meant, because he's said the same thing in past interviews and gone into more details.  Look around the site and you'll find them.

Are you really ignorant enough to believe that Slash thinks GNR's old material (songs he cowrote and recorded) is not cool?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dizzy just read the quote, its simple.
He said back when gnr was cool.
He never said when it was cool being in the band.
What don't you understand about that?
And slash is not talking about the material, he is talking about how people perseve the band, and slash is implying Axl made Gnr a joke in his eyes.

Also no I dont think slash is saying gnr songs are not cool but some of you VR fans do since you said the ten min songs are not  

[Jizzo]

I don't know about you dave, but to the average person GNR is a laughing stock. So what he took a shot at Axl. Somethings you just can't understand. so what if Tommy and Josh said he's cool to work with, you weren't in the room. He could of been nice to them and an asshole to Slash. Unless you witness it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears you have no right to pass judgement.

Today GNR is a laughing stock no matter how much you don't want them to be.

[Ignatius]

GNR's downward spiral of uncoolness started with UYI and officially ceased the first time "Smells Like Teen Spirit" aired on MTV...It's that simple.  Anyone who's in denial about this fact needs to read their musical history book.

I disagree there. I'm not gonna discuss whether GNR was cool or not because what is cool to me might not be to you and the other way around, but as for GNR "offically ceased the first time Smell...was aired on MTV" I have my doubts. If I'm not mistaken, MTV must've aired Nirvana's SLTS around Sept-Oct'91. The illusions had just came out and GNR was just becoming the biggest band on the planet.

Sometimes the media, trying to set dates to when the whole grunge thing started ( killing bands like GNR aloing the way) make up bullshit just to make their point clear. We both know it didn't happen like that. GNR down fall was a very slow process, probably magnified  by Kurt's dead in 94.

[Pviljoen]

UYI era GNR ain't cool, they weren't then, they sure as hell aren't now.

No, the "cool" factor was gone during the Illusion era, but now?  I don't know if I agree, things always look better in retrospect and looking back there were a lot of cool things about that big, messy, monstrosity of a  tour.

Even in retrospect (for me) there's absolutely nothing cool (or endearing for that matter) about that era of GNR.  Biker shorts, back up singers, horns, drum solos, Duff singing, biker shorts, 10 minute songs, Izzy leaving, biker shorts...et al.

E-gads.

I love people like you. You would bash Axl if CD only sold a million copies yet if he sold 5 million you would say record sales dont mean anything and bring up the N Synch thing.

The 10 min songs gnr played are some of their best if not some of the best songs of all time (nov rain, coma, estranged). Yeah I guess Zepplin really sucks with all their ten min songs right?

Now you are bashing Axl for wearing biker shorts, well did you see what Scott is wearing at the VR songs? I dont think that is cool either. Also Axl wearing sports jeserys is not cool either eh? So no matter what axl wears it wont be cool to you right?  Not that what someone wears makes them cool.

As for the back up singers and horn section, blame slash for that one since it was his idea to do so.

I guess the how ever many million people that saw the UYI tour did not think it was cool.
Just because you dont think its cool does not mean it wasnt.

The UYI albums together are still one of the best albums ever, and they are better than AFD (IMO of coarse).

But like i said Gnr are still cool today just look at the GHs and look at the pop gnr got at the VMAs.

But I will ask  you, what makes something cool in your eyes, I am just curious.

It's quite obvious that you have a vendetta against Slash.

Just remember two things:

1) The 10 minute songs that you jerk off to like NR, Estranged, Coma etc... (which I love a lot too) are all songs in which Slash contributed to... a lot of the reasons that those songs are as powerful as they are is because of Slash's guitar playing, along with Axl's powerful lyrics.

2) The mainstay of the GNR tour in 2002 (which I was very fortunate to see) was Appetite and UYI hits... again, all of which Slash is a huge part of. So don't make this an Axl vs Slash thing... because remember, Axl and Slash needed EACH other. Also remember that you give a lot of credit to the new 3 guitarists, and 90% of the material that they are playing is based on Slash's guitar playing.

[Naupis]

Even if he was taking a dig at Axl....who in their right mind is going to argue GNR as a band now is even half as cool as the Appetite Era Sex, Drugs and Rock N' Roll version of the band? I still love the band but I would love some of whatever you're somking if you're going to try and say that in terms of mass appeal and coolness that people would choose the New Band over the Appetite Era line-up. I would guess that is what Slash was referrring to when he said when the band was still cool.

[Dizzy]

Dizzy just read the quote, its simple.
He said back when gnr was cool.
He never said when it was cool being in the band.
What don't you understand about that?
And slash is not talking about the material, he is talking about how people perseve the band, and slash is implying Axl made Gnr a joke in his eyes.

Ridiculous.

Take your own advice and read the quote Dave, and read it in context.  Here let's analyze it.

What we're doing right now, from the second that it started and now that we're finally touring and getting onstage, I can't compare it to anything. Even in my old days when Guns was still cool, which was a great time in my life

Now read the bold part very carefully.  Read it twice if you can't understand it.  It puts the "when Guns was still cool" statement right into context.  He meant that when GNR first formed, when they started touring and getting onstage.  It's blatantly obvious he means the exact same thing about GNR that he explicitly stated about VR.  At least it's obvious to anyone who interprets those statements without having a "Slash is out to smear Axl" bias.

[Falcon]

GNR's downward spiral of uncoolness started with UYI and officially ceased the first time "Smells Like Teen Spirit" aired on MTV...It's that simple.  Anyone who's in denial about this fact needs to read their musical history book.

I disagree there. I'm not gonna discuss whether GNR was cool or not because what is cool to me might not be to you and the other way around, but as for GNR "offically ceased the first time Smell...was aired on MTV" I have my doubts. If I'm not mistaken, MTV must've aired Nirvana's SLTS around Sept-Oct'91. The illusions had just came out and GNR was just becoming the biggest band on the planet.

Sometimes the media, trying to set dates to when the whole grunge thing started ( killing bands like GNR aloing the way) make up bullshit just to make their point clear. We both know it didn't happen like that. GNR down fall was a very slow process, probably magnified  by Kurt's dead in 94.

No problems with your disagreement.

I'll clarify, the perception of GNR changed with the UYI's and subsequent tour.  The perception increasingly worsened with the rise of grunge,  less became more and excess was deemed passe'.

[Acquiesce]

I was going to say I'm shocked that people are actually arguing over what Slash said, but then I realized it's just another case of the SSDD (same shit different day) syndrome going on here.

It's beyond obvious that Slash was talking about the height of Guns' popularity, you know when they were they were "cool." They are no longer in the public eye, so they are no longer cool in that sense. It's not an insult in any way, shape, or form. Case closed.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. I really can't believe certain people are that thick. Please stop trying to think because it's not working for you.

[Lineker10]

If you read the quote properley which obvoiusly some people havent Slash says-

Even in my old days when Guns was still cool, which was a great time in my life

Notice the word MY. He says "In MY old days when guns was cool which was a great time in my life". He is saying that back when he was in Gn'R and things between him and the rest of the guys were good. Even so i think the old Gn'R was miles cooler than the new one - i want to be in the old Gn'R, not so much with the new one!

In terms of UYI tours and albums i think the band lost alot of that street edge - slow 10min songs, drum solos, guitar solos and coming on stage late are all things that made that area alot worse than AFD.

And Dave - you constantly say in your posts "You VR fans" etc.. Were not all simply VR loving Axl/NewGn'R hating VR fans. I like VR and i like the NewGn'R - so stop trying to catagorise everyone who posts in this section as blind VR lovers - otherwise by that definition you yourself must be one.

[tomass74]

UH OH Dave has his panties all up in a bunch.......Anyway, my interpretation of what Slash said wasn't a dig at Axl. He may not think GnR is cool now, but he didn't for the last couple years he was with Gn'R either. He meant GnR was still cool, like when everyone was still having fun.  

[matt88]

I don't know about you dave, but to the average person GNR is a laughing stock. So what he took a shot at Axl. Somethings you just can't understand. so what if Tommy and Josh said he's cool to work with, you weren't in the room. He could of been nice to them and an asshole to Slash. Unless you witness it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears you have no right to pass judgement.

Today GNR is a laughing stock no matter how much you don't want them to be.

Agreed GN'R is looked at as a laughin stock. I remember at the start of 2003(so 18 months ago)in Melbourne's main paper The Hearald Sun, it showed the big things that were gonna happen that year. And in the big albums being released it said Chinese Democracy? And it goes on to say something like...."This almost 10 years in the making album is turning into a "SOAP OPERA".

GN'R is being laughed at. God you look at Axl n slash n duff rocking out on stage, and today we were reduced to watching a clown wearing a bucket on his head and Axl parading around with a bunch of idiots. Besides Stinson and Dizzy, the rest of the band have got no where near enough talent to be under the name Guns N' Roses.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

So for all the VR fans that say Gnr is a laughing stock.
AT the VMAs how many people did you see laughing when they were playing?

[dave-gnfnr2k]

If you read the quote properley which obvoiusly some people havent Slash says-

Even in my old days when Guns was still cool, which was a great time in my life

Notice the word MY. He says "In MY old days when guns was cool which was a great time in my life". He is saying that back when he was in Gn'R and things between him and the rest of the guys were good. Even so i think the old Gn'R was miles cooler than the new one - i want to be in the old Gn'R, not so much with the new one!

In terms of UYI tours and albums i think the band lost alot of that street edge - slow 10min songs, drum solos, guitar solos and coming on stage late are all things that made that area alot worse than AFD.

And Dave - you constantly say in your posts "You VR fans" etc.. Were not all simply VR loving Axl/NewGn'R hating VR fans. I like VR and i like the NewGn'R - so stop trying to catagorise everyone who posts in this section as blind VR lovers - otherwise by that definition you yourself must be one.

Well its funny that most people that bash axl and love VR like to name calling toward people that support Axl and the new band and bash peeople that dont like certain VR songs.

Go figure. And some of you wonder why I like fucking with your heads hmmm

[Naupis]

[quoteAT the VMAs how many people did you see laughing when they were playing? ]

I think its great you think your fucking with people's heads....I mean this is an internet message board and I am sure there are people losing sleep over your repetitive Axl-loving arguments, but did you happen to see ANY of the reviews or parodys of GNR after the VMA in which they all had a totally fat guy running around pretending to be Axl after he was totally out of breath during Jungle and PC. I think you are either dellusional or in denial if you don't think the VMA's did more to HURT than help New GNR. I am sure we'll get the same dose of how excited he was, and that the band sounded great, and that the people went nuts....but at the end of the day the thing that sticks out in the casual viewers head is that Axl COUNT NOT perform those songs like he should have given no one had seen him in about 7-8 years. That is what we like to call choking under pressure. Now let the excuses flow as to why this is totally not the case even though it totally is. Do you really think shows like Howard Stern or Connan O'brien would have fat people parodying Axl Rose had he come out and nailed the VMA's the way he did in your mind and not run around noticibly bigger and more out of breath than any of his fans had ever seen him?

[younggunner]

Besides Stinson and Dizzy, the rest of the band have got no where near enough talent to be under the name Guns N' Roses.

Can we wait till the album is out before you say that

[Imfuckincrazy]

It's really sad that Dizzy had to analyze Slash's statement in order to even attempt to get you to understand it, Dave, and even so, you choose to ignore it because you have a belief that what everyone says about Axl is against him.

But even if what he said was to say that GNR is now a joke, it would be true. Perhaps not in your dellusional world, but anyone with a clue of reality can see that.  

[Ignatius]

GNR's downward spiral of uncoolness started with UYI and officially ceased the first time "Smells Like Teen Spirit" aired on MTV...It's that simple.  Anyone who's in denial about this fact needs to read their musical history book.

I disagree there. I'm not gonna discuss whether GNR was cool or not because what is cool to me might not be to you and the other way around, but as for GNR "offically ceased the first time Smell...was aired on MTV" I have my doubts. If I'm not mistaken, MTV must've aired Nirvana's SLTS around Sept-Oct'91. The illusions had just came out and GNR was just becoming the biggest band on the planet.

Sometimes the media, trying to set dates to when the whole grunge thing started ( killing bands like GNR aloing the way) make up bullshit just to make their point clear. We both know it didn't happen like that. GNR down fall was a very slow process, probably magnified  by Kurt's dead in 94.

No problems with your disagreement.

I'll clarify, the perception of GNR changed with the UYI's and subsequent tour.  The perception increasingly worsened with the rise of grunge,  less became more and excess was deemed passe'.

I see what you are saying, but my perception ( and the majority of GNR fans then ) is totally different. We've discussed this before though.

[Dizzy]

Besides Stinson and Dizzy, the rest of the band have got no where near enough talent to be under the name Guns N' Roses.

Can we wait till the album is out before you say that

Yes we can younggunner, but can we also wait for the album for you to say the opposite?