Image of the new G'n'R

[mr_BROWNSTONE]

 Well, about the clothes....I think that they had an anormous influence. Yeah, of course the music was more important and they talked with the music not with clothes but the clothes were also very important. Imagine what it would be if a rebolous band like them were going in concerts with the same suits and same tights as Backstreet Boys or Blue. Or to see Axl with sleepers, or Slash and Duff with trainings and sandals. No way. So what, that we are 2004? I go everywhere with punk and rock shirts, mostly of GN'R, boots and leather jacket when it's cold.  
 Other than that, I won't write about today's GN'R image because I still believe that this is not GN'R. GN'R can't be GN'R without Slash, Duff and let's say Matt. Today there is Velvet Revolver and Axl's band according to me.

[spiderman]

axl looks cool yeah? thats all that matters

[CryGirl]

Whatever Axl`s wearing (or not!) is always cool to me.

And Scott is trying to look like Axl but he really can`t!!!

[elevendayempire]

And Scott is trying to look like Axl but he really can`t!!!

Yes, because Axl always used to go around wearing silver pants with his hair cropped short...

Anyway, this next bit doesn't pertain to you specifically, it's more of a generalised rant about image-obsessed fans.

Seriously, all this going on about image is just bollocks. I remember the reviews of the 2002 tour - half of them were detailed lists of what the band was wearing. Anyone who's that concerned about image is completely shallow and should be listening to Beyonce or Britney, frankly. I always find it deeply ironic that the fans of rock music, who disparage pop acts because they're image-conscious, are so utterly obsessed with image themselves. If a band deviates in any way from the fans' percieved image of what 'rock' is (by, say, wearing a bucket on one's head, or playing with - God forbid - Michael Jackson or Justin Timberlake), they're deemed to have 'sold out.' It's especially ironic since rock fans also pride themselves on being focused more on the music than the artist's image - after all, obsessing about an artist's image is for pop fans...

So, try closing your eyes and listening to the music for once. Phew, I'm glad I got that off my chest.

SG

[badgirl]

totally agree. BUT... Zepplin, Doors, GnR, and the other BIG bands have all had hot front men, badass lead guitarist, and a cohesive look (actually, it's all pretty much the standard rock and roll uniform: shirtless with low-riding jeans, cords, or black leather pants).

Do you think people got into GN'R because of Slash's naked chest and Axl's biker pants? Do you think that Led Zeppelin sold over 200 million albums just because of Robert's blonde and curly hair? Do you think people still buy The Doors' albums like shit, just because of Jim's leather pants? On their largest tour, Jim was already fat and had grown a beard. He looked like a fuckin bump on the street! But the people loved him - because of the MUSIC!

If your formula was working, then all you'd have to do to become a rockstar is to pull a Lenny Kravitz - be more or less handsome, put on your leather pants, take off your shirt and fake it. But without the right music backing you up, you would only LOOK like one, but you would never BE one. That's what seperates the actors from the musicians, and that's why people laugh at Lenny Kravitz and respect Bob Dylan. And guess who of the two has made more money in the same period of time? It all comes down to when you've got the right music, then no one will gives a fuck about how you look. It's the MUSIC!

Um, are you retarded? Can you read? Read my posts and see that i stated exlicitely that the music is the number one factor and SHOULD be the number one factor. However, i think that image can add or detract, especially if a band wants to be the biggest band in the world.

And Chinese-- obviously you can't read either. I am a BIG supporter of the new GnR. I absolutely adore the new songs. I am also a huge fan of Axl. However, i am not so blinded by my love that i can't criticize or disagree with certain elements.
There might be some posters here who are black and white thinkers, but don't quote me and thow that shit out, kay?

[Freya]

because singers who don't have a good look don't make it.....poor Greg Allman

Hey, Greg Allman was hot, and a major babe hound.  

[christina_rose]

I'm going to throw in my two cents. Why the hell not.

Bands nowadays come from a cookie-cutter type atmosphere. They look/sound/dress/act the same. Not ALL of them mind you, but alot of them are. The stupid pop crap is all fixed to sell records. Sure some of these bands sound good, and look good as well. And looks do help sell albums. Because there are some acts out there that sound like shit, and look wonderful because they have people telling them how to dress, and do their hair, etc. Being good looking does help you sell, wheter you're good or bad. But eventually being a crappy singer or band catches up with you sooner or later, and you're popularity dies out.

Re-inventing your image is not necessarily a bad thing. Whether it's to keep up with  the times, or just your own personal taste. Look at Madonna. She's re-invented her look so many times she's probably running out of ideas. There's nothing wrong with doing that.

As far as Axl and everybody else goes, I'll tackle that one at a time. I got into GNR by hearing their songs, and I liked them a little. Honestly at that time I had no idea what metal or rock or anything else was. I was about 8 or 9, and listened to whatever my mom had on the radio, which was usually classic or soft rock. One day a few years later I remember flipping through channels, and saw an image of a cross, and heard piano playing. I flipped the channel off, and then being curious I turned it back on again. It happened to be November Rain. I will say I fell in love with the music right away, and when I saw the first image of Axl I was hooked. So I guess you could say it was a little of both for me, but techinically I heard the music years earlier without knowing what any of them looked like.

As far as the new look goes, I was so happy that I would finaly get to see Guns N' Roses play live, even though it was completely different as far as the lineup went, I really didn't care what ANYBODY looked like. When I saw Axl on the VMA'S I cried because I was just grateful to see him. I'll admit seeing Buckethead and Robin threw me for a loop, but I got over it and enjoyed the music.

So, as far as image goes, my feeling is it's different for everyone. What one person sees as beautiful or handsome, someone else could totally be disgusted by it. Same goes for music. Everyone has different tastes as to what they like. Do the two go hand in hand? I think to a point, they might. But I don't believe one affects the other in such a way as to be horribly detremental to the band or the popularity of said band. There are people concerned about what they look like. And there are those that don't care. I personally am a bit of both, and I will admit that. But I'm more about what the PERSON looks like, not what said person is wearing. I could care less about the clothing.

[Imfuckincrazy]

You're expressing your love for Slash. You bashed Bucket, "that fucking idiot clown of a bastard".

How is that expressing my love for Slash? So you assume that anyone who says any wrong against the new band or Buckethead must have some sort of 'love' for Slash. That's nonsense. And the "forever-in-the-making-of-album" thing also had nothing to do with Slash. So leave him out of it.

The problem is with the old-band lovers who are hurt because Slash isn't in the band anymore or just because blame Axl for every problem in the band.

Again, you assume that people who don't like the new band because people are "hurt because Slash isn't in the band." So no one can have a fair opinion of the new band unless they are Axl supporters?

You know, it's time to move on. Slash has a great band now and Bucket isn't in the GNR

Who said otherwise? I'm glad that Slash isn't in the band anymore. Well, it's not really that, but I'm glad that he left because he didn't need any of Axl's bullshit, no one did. I liked the old GNR, but I'm glad to see Slash, Duff, and Matt in VR. It's a great band, they're doing great so far. As for the new GNR, I'm glad that Buckethead is gone, and if Axl ever releases that album, I just might buy it.    

The only thing that I am angry about is the fact that someone said, "I don't like the new GNR image" and people shit all over them, tell them their love for Slash is clouding their judgement, that Scott Weiland looks gay, and get their panties in a twist and say "the music is more important." So the music is more important, no one said that isn't so, but can't image be discussed without people throwing fits? I guess not, but only because it was against poor little Axl. Honestly, do you think he would care? Images are meant to shock people - look at David Bowie and Madonna and such. Images are meant to stir shit... If not we would have a bunch of fat blob people singing to us. It would all be boring - maybe not the music, but I think people would be less likely to buy someone's album if they weren't "good looking" because more often than not, the image is the first impression. Even the image adds to rock n roll. So don't get all bitchy if someone happens to mention anything about image.

Oh, and it's kinda funny that one person claims that Scott Weiland looks gay, and the other said he is trying to be Axl.  

[jarmo]

You're expressing your love for Slash. You bashed Bucket, "that fucking idiot clown of a bastard".

How is that expressing my love for Slash? So you assume that anyone who says any wrong against the new band or Buckethead must have some sort of 'love' for Slash. That's nonsense.

You have a pic of Slash as your avatar and the personal text "Slash is God" but you really don't like him?  




/jarmo

[Imfuckincrazy]

I never said that I didn't like him!!!!! Where did I say that!?

My avatar and personal text, yes, I suppose you can say that expresses love for Slash, but I'm saying that what I said in this thread doesn't. My point was that just because I hate Buckethead, and don't exactly worship Axl, doesn't mean that someone can automatically assume that it's because of Slash.

Also, Captain_Harlock made no comments about Slash, and certainly didn't claim any love for Slash at all, and it's stupid to just assume that because he doesn't like the new GNR image, that he must love him. Some people don't think anyone can not like GNR and have a good, unbiased reason, such as not liking their image, or the music, or whatever the fuck it may be.

[jarmo]

My point was that just because I hate Buckethead, and don't exactly worship Axl, doesn't mean that someone can automatically assume that it's because of Slash.

It's pretty safe to say that among GN'R fans, out of the ones who hate BH and dislike Axl, many of them are Slash fans.



/jarmo

[Imfuckincrazy]

It's pretty safe to say that among GN'R fans, out of the ones who hate BH and dislike Axl, many of them are Slash fans.



/jarmo

Well, so? It's the same way with the Slash bashing people, most of them are the ones who worship Axl and hate everyone else. And even the most diehard Slash fans are mostly fans of Axl too, but the Axl followers bash Slash at every opportunity, always have to believe that what he says is wrong, or against Axl in some way, etc.

I don't like Axl, but I'm a fan of his music, sorry that I fail to see him as a god, or Buckethead for that matter, and yes I do hate him, so what? Everytime someone says something "against" Axl, such as the first post in this thread, they automatically jump to Axl's defence, saying, "Well, your love of Slash is clouding your judgement, and Scott Weiland is/looks gay" - things that have nothing to do with it. It's stupid to start shit with people over it, or even assume things. Captain Harlock said nothing about Slash, yet people think he must love Slash just because he stated an honest opinion about the new GNR image, which just so happened to be a negative one.  

[AxlGunner]

My point was that just because I hate Buckethead, and don't exactly worship Axl, doesn't mean that someone can automatically assume that it's because of Slash.

It's pretty safe to say that among GN'R fans, out of the ones who hate BH and dislike Axl, many of them are Slash fans.



/jarmo

That point is pretty meaningless. If you hate axl, don't like slash, why are you a fan of GNR? Dizzy's keyboarding skills got you hooked as a child?

Also, why are you encouraging this confrontation? Here's how the gnr-fan breakdown probably goes (if you don't believe me, why don't you make a poll on the homepage?):

10%- love axl, dislike rest of band
10%- love slash, dislike rest of band
80%- love axl, love slash, want everyone to do well

BUT, as is the nature with most discussions, it is usually just the fringe, extremist groups/people who say confrontational and argumentative things that rile people up and get them angry. The other 80% of the people here probably don't hate axl or slash, but they can look *somewhat* objectively (even though nothing in music is really objective) and try to criticize something about one member of the band or another.

For instance, I love Axl and can't wait for him to put out a CD, but by God I can also understand how it's been so many years and it may easily be several more before we hear anything new, and Axl is a large part of the holdup.

Anyway, that's all I have to say for now about this. I'll retreat now and watch from a distance as the wolves continue to tear at each other some more.

For the time being though, rock on GNR and VR!

[jarmo]

That point is pretty meaningless.

I don't care if it's meaningless. That's how I experience it.

Oh, and I said "many" not "all", there is a difference.


I'm one of the fans who can make up my own mind instead of hating Nirvana just because Axl said something about Kurt in 1992. But, for example, because I also find some comments made by Duff funny, I get labeled an "Axl fan".

It's quite funny having people telling you how you feel about stuff, people who never met you or even talked to you. They read the posts and label.....  

Well, so?

Well, so I answered your question.


I don't understand the hating thing at all. It's a musician you're talking about, not a terrorist or an evil dictator who killed a bunch of people.

It's one thing to dislike his playing and/or music, but you say you hate him.... So I guess you hate him as a person? How many times have you met him?



/jarmo

[MadmanDan]

It's not looks that,aside from talent, makes or breaks a rock star.It's charisma!!!
  Steven Tyler and Mick Jagger are two of the ugliest people I have ever seen,but they have that special something that,combined with great musical ability,makes you a legend.
 

[AxlGunner]

My point is that I would actually contend that just about ALL GNR fans who hate axl probably like Slash.

That is because the reverse logically doesn't make any sense.

Slash and Axl were the two main aspects of GNR, so how could you like gnr if you don't like either axl or slash, or both? Perhaps Izzy or Adler or Duff, but these were mostly role players who did a great job backing up Axl and Slash- who were the main forces associated with GNR.

thus, those that don't like axl must, at the least, have some sort of positive opinion about slash, otherwise they probably wouldnt be a GNR fan at all.

similarly, those who hate slash probably like axl, for the same reasons.

This means a couple things:

You cannot assume that JUST because someone likes slash, they hate axl. And also, that JUST because someone likes axl, they hate slash.

Similarly, JUST because someone has a problem with axl, it is not neccessarily BECAUSE they are a slash fan. And just because someone has a problem with Slash, it is not necessarily BECAUSE they are an axl fan.

These are all innappropriate causal relationships to make. They might be obvious, but I see so many people day in and day out on this board jump to these conclusions and base arguments off them, often times resorting to insulting people.

[jarmo]

As I said, that's how experience things. I've seen ex-Gunner fans who didn't exactly seem thrilled that Axl was on tour in 2002.

Go check out some ex-Gunner forums and see for yourself. I bet you'll find some fans who wish Axl would fail at anything he does.  

You don't need logic in this case.  

Their guy left the band, so they hate the guy who, according to them, made him leave.


/jarmo

[Imfuckincrazy]

I get labeled an "Axl fan".

What a horrible thing to say about someone... calling them a ... I can't even say it... an "Axl fan"! Maybe a reason why you are labeled such a thing is because you side with Dave on a lot of his biased, Axl worshipping, Slash/VR bashing rampages.

It's quite funny having people telling you how you feel about stuff,

Oh really? It's okay for people to tell me how I feel because "It's pretty safe to say that among GN'R fans, out of the ones who hate BH and dislike Axl, many of them are Slash fans," but you have your own opinions? But I'm not allowed to, huh? I didn't know that only applied to me.

[AxlGunner]

As I said, that's how experience things. I've seen ex-Gunner fans who didn't exactly seem thrilled that Axl was on tour in 2002.

Go check out some ex-Gunner forums and see for yourself. I bet you'll find some fans who wish Axl would fail at anything he does.  

You don't need logic in this case.  

Their guy left the band, so they hate the guy who, according to them, made him leave.


/jarmo

I'm saying I agree with you on this.

However, it is unfair to place ALL the fans of VR into this category. MOST of us like VR and Axl, but when we try to say how good one is, we get labeled as hating the other side- which in most cases is completely false!!

SOOO.... please stop making it seem as if everyone who posts in the Ex-gunners section or the Velvet Revolver section are all bitter at Axl. I, and many others, are not bitter and just want both to do well. Don't lump us in with the few who ARE bitter just because they are often the ones that get the most attention for their controversial opinions.

[jarmo]

What a horrible thing to say about someone... calling them a ... I can't even say it... an "Axl fan"! Maybe a reason why you are labeled such a thing is because you side with Dave on a lot of his biased, Axl worshipping, Slash/VR bashing rampages.

Side with him? I don't hate VR. Go read my posts.  

You guys are breaking the rules at an impressive rate when he posts.

Oh really? It's okay for people to tell me how I feel because "It's pretty safe to say that among GN'R fans, out of the ones who hate BH and dislike Axl, many of them are Slash fans," but you have your own opinions? But I'm not allowed to, huh? I didn't know that only applied to me.

OK, so you hate BH, you have a Slash avatar and a personal text which says "Slash is God", I'm sorry if I assumed you were a Slash fan. I guess you fooled me there.

Maybe you're a Robin Finck fan then?  


Please point out the facts that you have that proves there are no fans who hate Axl that are big fans of Slash. Because I've seen the opposite. I'm sorry if it offends you, but that's what I've seen online.

If you feel like I singled you out by saying "many" fans, that's your problem. Maybe you need to change your avatar and personal text?  

However, it is unfair to place ALL the fans of VR into this category. MOST of us like VR and Axl, but when we try to say how good one is, we get labeled as hating the other side- which in most cases is completely false!!

It would be nice if you read what I said. I said "many", meaning a bunch. "Many" does not equal everybody or all.


/jarmo