Velvet Revolver/Guns N' Roses (2 different bands)

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Anyway, I regret calling Hellactopers great. They're cool. I ment to say that. And eh, of course any band (or most) would sell out to be like GnR. Did I compare them? NO! About Going Blind, I heard a very few cool songs by them. And where did I hear about them? At a GnR forum! So surprise! Others obviously like them too! And do I give a shit where Hellacopters play? I love seeing a show at a 1000-audience venue! I would love GnR to do that! And Hellacopters does that!


Finally, I don't push anyone to listen to anything. You are free to choose what the fuck you want. But my point is that I don't just listen to Beatles even though they're my favourite band. (And feel free to come and diss me for my taste in music again. I actually enjoy it when people do that!).

Hey don't bring the Beatles down on your list of crappy bands that are better then VR because they get local reviews in school newspapers are good. A good review doesnt mean anything. How many artsy movies get "great reviews" I wouldnt blow 2 cents to see most of the movies that get great reviews. I would rather see an action move that critics hate because it have killing and rock n roll in it.

The Beatles were great. Lennon was the man. You probalby prefer Julian Lennon's solo cd, because its "underground" and cool.

Britney Spears does get great reviews and she doesnt even sing.

[Surge]

Hey don't bring the Beatles down on your list of crappy bands that are better then VR because they get local reviews in school newspapers are good. A good review doesnt mean anything. How many artsy movies get "great reviews" I wouldnt blow 2 cents to see most of the movies that get great reviews. I would rather see an action move that critics hate because it have killing and rock n roll in it.

The Beatles were great. Lennon was the man. You probalby prefer Julian Lennon's solo cd, because its "underground" and cool.

Britney Spears does get great reviews and she doesnt even sing.

Britney... has one good pop song. I don't like it at all, but I can see that it's good. And people who review her is people who are into her music. You couldn't put me to review her! I'd give her a 2/5 and that might not be fair! Beatles were great. Julian Lennon is in no way underground. He's been on the charts (Why? Because of his name). Yeah, he's alright, but no, you can't tell me what I think, and no, I don't like Julian over Beatles. That's just absurd. I don't give a shit where the bands are on a sales list. If I listen to it and it's cool, fine. And no, I just mentioned two other rock bands to show that rock isn't all that dead. And if I had said it on a GnR forum, no one would give a shit! I wonder why...

So you're saying, "Your views and opinions are stupid, but you aren't. Really!" I have to agree with gezm's and JohnHert's posts.

You do one big mistake here as you put an s after view and opinion. I'm talkuing about one, not several. I havn't been lucky enough to get to read more posts by this guy. Besides, there's lots of people who has stupid opinions but who were smart. I've had to go through Marx a lot due to reasons and he sure has some views (especially concerning economy) that are stupid. Still, he was smart. And I refuse to judge because of lacking insight (just as I'll get back to)! And if you blame me for that, I'm totally fine with it!

What does he know about your taste in music? What you told him. And he is judging your taste in music by... what you told him!

Oh, and you expect people to not judge your musical taste when you're the one who said - on a VR board, of all places - "VR is average and these bands are better." Makes you sound like some four year old, or a really bored person who has nothing better to do. Why don't you grow up?

Well, thing is, I probably have a some thousand albums floating around. One is a Hellacopters one, one is Turbonegro, That's what he judged it on. Is that enough? Yeah, I said it! But well, of other things, there's lots of GnR there, as well as Led Zep, Doors, Dylan, Lennon, Pearl Jam, REM, some U2, Clash, Byrds and lots and lots of other things... (yeah, including more underground stuff, but not for the case of those being underground! If someone ask me what I like, I say things that people know). But the point is, few would say these bands suck! And by the way, there's no such thing as everything that doesn't rock, suck. It's not that black and white! I'm having a hard time getting how you guys can dislike Apocalypse Dudes so much. If you've even heard that one, that is. And I also doubt you'll find many people who has a taste that sucks on a GnR forum!

And you don't have to whine about it and try to insult me even if I give a perfectly fair opinion about your band! Hell, many people here has been digging them since they didn't have any songs! They had fans then! I just waited and juddged what I heard! That's pretty fair, I think. And yeah, I've listened to VR because I find it interesting. It includes two people from GnR - that's more than any other project I've heard from GnR members. It's not very strange I find my way into a VR forum. I've seen lots of people who bash GnR on GnR forums. I don't come here and bash VR. VR just didn't impress me all that much (some cool ideas, but it just doesn't kick for me). But I'm gonna check out the album when it comes, and I allow myself to stay interested, and I'll even admit it if the album sounds better than what I think from what I've heard!

Why the hell did you bring Turbonegro into this discussion......they have nothing to do with GNR and you've disgraced their good name by mentioning them in one of your moronic posts.

Sorry I hurt your feelings! I didn't think you'd take it so hard and I sure didn't intend to!

And no, you don't have to insult me. I can teach you some stuff about discussing if you want:

Rule 1: Never insult people!

[Imfuckincrazy]

You do one big mistake here as you put an s after view and opinion. I'm talkuing about one, not several.

Oh well. Does that make it better?

Well, thing is, I probably have a some thousand albums floating around. One is a Hellacopters one, one is Turbonegro, That's what he judged it on. Is that enough?

Good for you. Those two are the only ones that you mentioned, not anything else. Not that I expect you to list every single album you own or anything, but that is what you put, and that is what he judged by.

diss me for my taste in music again. I actually enjoy it when people do that!

One thing that I don't understand is why you're bitching about "Who are you to judge my taste in music?" and all this shit, and then you say that you enjoy it?

And you don't have to whine about it and try to insult me even if I give a perfectly fair opinion about your band!

Okay, but you also put the two bands Hellacopters or whatever it's called, and the other one, and JohnHert said that they are shit. So your opinions are fair, and others' are not?

Rule 1: Never insult people!

Um, hello? You're the one who said came here and said that you think VR is average, and that your opinion is the one that matters most because you own more albums and "know more about music" and shit.

You are also the one who said "You're learning from Scott Weiland," and mentioned what he put on the website. First of all, I'm not going to get into that. That interviewer kissed his ass and pretended to be friendly and then said they chose "the biggest fuck up of them all." That's fucking shitty and I like Scott Weiland even more after he posted that! Go Scott!

Anyway, the "you're learning from Scott" remark was an insult directed towards Scott, and it insulted us, his fans. (Or me, anyway.) So don't tell anyone to not insult anyone!

It includes two people from GnR - that's more than any other project I've heard from GnR members.

I like how you argue that you know so much about music and then you say there are two members of GN'R that are in VR. Learn to count. Slash, Duff, Matt. One, two, three. Now you try it!

[Surge]

You do one big mistake here as you put an s after view and opinion. I'm talkuing about one, not several.

Oh well. Does that make it better?

It changes it all, because what you claim I totally agree with - only thing is you misread me and gave me an opinion I never had. If I said everything he ever said and did was stupid, yeah, then I would probably also call him stupid. But I say one thing is stupid (I can't even recall what I said, and I definitely don't wanna bother reading it again cos I'm getting tired of it). And then I claim one act can be stupid without the individual being so. If you run over the street and almost get hit by a car that must be a stupid thing to do. If you took the risc I mean. But that doesn't mean you could still solve the biggest mathematical problems no one else ever would be capable of. And I wouldn't think you would be stupid then, would I?

Well, thing is, I probably have a some thousand albums floating around. One is a Hellacopters one, one is Turbonegro, That's what he judged it on. Is that enough?

Good for you. Those two are the only ones that you mentioned, not anything else. Not that I expect you to list every single album you own or anything, but that is what you put, and that is what he judged by.

Yeah, but is it right to judge it on that little? I said I see one song by Britney as good as well - I see some quality in it. You can judge people on so little, but it's not always right.

diss me for my taste in music again. I actually enjoy it when people do that!

One thing that I don't understand is why you're bitching about "Who are you to judge my taste in music?" and all this shit, and then you say that you enjoy it?

Now you gave me a tricky one. Well, yeah, I somewhat enjoy it because I know it's wrong. I know a thing or two about music. I will never say I know more than you or anyone else reading this thread, because music is not about that, but I truly enjoy listening to music. But as well as that, it bothers me that people does it.

And you don't have to whine about it and try to insult me even if I give a perfectly fair opinion about your band!

Okay, but you also put the two bands Hellacopters or whatever it's called, and the other one, and JohnHert said that they are shit. So your opinions are fair, and others' are not?

Another tricky one. Well, I say VR is average. Some songs are alright and I'm looking forward to hear real album versions. But then "shit" and "average" are different words. And as I think I said, I don't believe music is so black and white that things either suck or rock. And that pisses me off when people paint a portrait of music as that. Cos, yeah... I'm totally cool with people not liking stuff. But I hate it when people come and say "Beatles sucks". Do they? Is there any chance so? (Note that I'm not comparing Beatles to anyone and never will). I don't think so. They just don't like them. And I see qualities in Apocalypse Dudes. I see qualities in Hellacopters. I just don't believe they can go so far down as being "shit". (I would use that word about Limp Bizkits worst and the worst pop music there is.)

Rule 1: Never insult people!

Um, hello? You're the one who said came here and said that you think VR is average, and that your opinion is the one that matters most because you own more albums and "know more about music" and shit.

You are also the one who said "You're learning from Scott Weiland," and mentioned what he put on the website. First of all, I'm not going to get into that. That interviewer kissed his ass and pretended to be friendly and then said they chose "the biggest fuck up of them all." That's fucking shitty and I like Scott Weiland even more after he posted that! Go Scott!

Anyway, the "you're learning from Scott" remark was an insult directed towards Scott, and it insulted us, his fans. (Or me, anyway.) So don't tell anyone to not insult anyone!

Yeah, I think VR is pretty average, and I think that's why people mention Axl. It's not as good as people would hope. That's all I stated. Is that an insult to anyone? I'm judging what my ears and my brain tells me. It's simple. And I never r stated that I own more albums than others here or that my opinion counts more. I don't tell you to like VR or not. Cool, I never was a STP fan and I never will be. And VR are closer to them than they are to GnR. It's simply isn't my thing. Now that I call fair. But still, I'm interested. Maybe I will like it more. And it does interest me because I know Slash and Duff can write good music.

The journalist used words that were not cool. But I tell you. Weiland prevented STP from doing tours and made them split up. I think the first album and tour was the only one that went ok, and as far as I remember STP did 4 albums! He screwed up every single time. Now, Scott should know that a journalist does those things. That's what does for a living. Chynical as hell, yeah. Still, it's his job! And Weiland did fuck up! He almost lost his kids and wife due to drugs! He has probably done lots of harm to his kids due to his problems. I say he has to clean up and not start whining about it and I seriously really hope he has cleaned up. I know that drugs can fuck you up and I wish him the best of luck and I hope for his sake that VR will help him not do that shit again!

And, yeah, maybe I set up a  trap for myself there and went straight into it. Maybe it was an insult, but it's not as much of as insult as throwing direct insults towords someone. Moron, idiot, sucks... those things I don't like. But yeah, you got me there...

It includes two people from GnR - that's more than any other project I've heard from GnR members.

I like how you argue that you know so much about music and then you say there are two members of GN'R that are in VR. Learn to count. Slash, Duff, Matt. One, two, three. Now you try it!

I try and I try and I'm sorry but I just get to 2, as Matt was just there playing drums. It doesn't count for me. If you play a part in creating something, or if you're there from the start you count. But it doesn't matter much. He was listed as an employee on Live Era too. Now Axl's to blame for that.

Well, I hope I didn't leave too many things to respond to now. I'm kinda tired of it all. It's a pretty stupid discussion anyway, and I feel like we probably agree more than we think. Usually  discussions are like that.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Another tricky one. Well, I say VR is average. Some songs are alright and I'm looking forward to hear real album versions. But then "shit" and "average" are different words. And as I think I said, I don't believe music is so black and white that things either suck or rock. And that pisses me off when people paint a portrait of music as that (I would use that word about Limp Bizkits worst and the worst pop music there is.)

No there is Great Rock, Good Rock, Bad Rock, and Shitty Rock.

Great= November Rain, Bohiemian Rhapsody, Rhandy Rhodes Ozzy Era.

Good= Mr Brownstone, The Zoo by Scoripions, Zack Wylde Ozzy Era

Bad Rock= Vince Neil Solo, The New Doors w/o Morrison

Shitty Rock= Limp Bizkit "Behind Blue Eyes", Hellicopters, Spinal Tap

SURGE
The journalist used words that were not cool. But I tell you. Weiland prevented STP from doing tours and made them split up.

Weiland didnt split them up. The brothers Bass/Guitars of STP went on to producing and even said they were close to calling it a day and wanted to start producing more. STP had a hell of a run. The members are still friends and they released the Greatest Hits to full their contract and called it good. STP never officially broke up. THEY NEVER SPLIT UP.

It includes two people from GnR - that's more than any other project I've heard from GnR members.

I like how you argue that you know so much about music and then you say there are two members of GN'R that are in VR. Learn to count. Slash, Duff, Matt. One, two, three. Now you try it!

I try and I try and I'm sorry but I just get to 2, as Matt was just there playing drums. It doesn't count for me. If you play a part in creating something, or if you're there from the start you count. But it doesn't matter much. He was listed as an employee on Live Era too. Now Axl's to blame for that.

How dumb off an ass are you? So in your opinion if you werent there in the begining to Start something then you dont count?

That means Brian Johnson doesn't count as ACDC after he replaced Bon Scott. Hell most people agree BACK IN BLACK in ACDC's best album and that is Brian Johnson on there.

You telling me Zack Wylde's work with Ozzy doesnt count for anything. Afterall Randy Rhodes was his original guitarist and wrote his best songs.

About about Ron Woods of the Rolling Stones. He has been in the group since 1970. And he has helped to write alot of great guitar parts and helped alot on their songs. But since someone was there before him it doesnt count?

Just because you werent there in the begining doesnt mean you arent a member. If you remember correctly Traci Gunns was the original guitarist for GnR in the very early days of GnR but quit before the Seattle Roadtrip because he thought it was a bad idea. Are you telling me then Slash wouldnt count either?

[Surge]

The journalist used words that were not cool. But I tell you. Weiland prevented STP from doing tours and made them split up.

Weiland didnt split them up. The brothers Bass/Guitars of STP went on to
producing and even said they were close to calling it a day and wanted to start producing more. STP had a hell of a run. The members are still friends and they released the Greatest Hits to full their contract and called it good. STP never officially broke up. THEY NEVER SPLIT UP.

Well, I actually couldn't care less if they split up or not. Go read some history about STP and you'll see who's to blame. I'll give you a brief one:

Formed early 90s, first album in 1992, but in 1994 they released their real breakthrough. And it sold good. After that they took a break and from what I remember Weiland started doing drugs at this time. He was sent to rehab. When he was released, STP went back in studio to record. Shortly after the release, guess who screwed up! Yeah! 100 points! It was Mr. Scott Weiland. Back in rehab! Promotion tour was cancelled which resulted in less sales.

Some years later they reunited and recorded another album. Guess who screwed up? 100 points again! Yeah, it was Mr. Scott Weiland. He was put in jail now! And after that they actually release another album! Guess what! Scott actually didn't screw up! But he did have a pretty high screw up rate there, didn't he?

So say whatever you want. He has given the other guys a mess and I truly understand why they wanted to do other things!

It includes two people from GnR - that's more than any other project I've heard from GnR members.

I like how you argue that you know so much about music and then you say there are two members of GN'R that are in VR. Learn to count. Slash, Duff, Matt. One, two, three. Now you try it!

I try and I try and I'm sorry but I just get to 2, as Matt was just there playing drums. It doesn't count for me. If you play a part in creating something, or if you're there from the start you count. But it doesn't matter much. He was listed as an employee on Live Era too. Now Axl's to blame for that.

How dumb off an ass are you? So in your opinion if you werent there in the begining to Start something then you dont count?

That means Brian Johnson doesn't count as ACDC after he replaced Bon Scott. Hell most people agree BACK IN BLACK in ACDC's best album and that is Brian Johnson on there.

You telling me Zack Wylde's work with Ozzy doesnt count for anything. Afterall Randy Rhodes was his original guitarist and wrote his best songs.

About about Ron Woods of the Rolling Stones. He has been in the group since 1970. And he has helped to write alot of great guitar parts and helped alot on their songs. But since someone was there before him it doesnt count?

Just because you werent there in the begining doesnt mean you arent a member. If you remember correctly Traci Gunns was the original guitarist for GnR in the very early days of GnR but quit before the Seattle Roadtrip because he thought it was a bad idea. Are you telling me then Slash wouldnt count either?

Ok, I'm sorry but now you get trapped twice. First of all you didn't read what I said! I said if you're not part of creating anything (meaning if you just play an instrument like Gilby and Matt did without writing shit or having anything to say) or an original member, you're not a true member. I'm sure all the guys you wrote that little essay about did that! Hell, yeah, Slash was a member. He wrote some of GnRs songs...

And then that "How dumb off an ass are you" is just silly. I don't get how you think that makes your point any stronger. It's just pure stupidity. Stop doing it cos it doesn't fit into a discussion. And if you try to offend me and think you succeed, think again. I just get angry because those words look so fucking stupid in a "discussion". Especially when all you say it wrong based on what I said!

[Mr Cowbell ?]

I guess then you just mean drumming in general doesnt count for anything.  Unless Matt was told exactly what to play, how to play it, the speed to play it and what not I think he should get his credit. Oviouslly if someone's name is printed on the song he should be given credit for its work. After all THE UYI cd's sound great and they have Matt to thank for keeping the Beat

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Surge
I try and I try and I'm sorry but I just get to 2, as Matt was just there playing drums. It doesn't count for me. If you play a part in creating something, or if you're there from the start you count. But it doesn't matter much. He was listed as an employee on Live Era too. Now Axl's to blame for that.

So you either have to have a PART in creating something or be there from the START?  SO MATT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH UYI or TSI. I guess matt was just a touring drummer huh?

Why would you give someone credit just for being there in the begining. IF YOU WORK ON A SONG YOU GET CREDIT IF YOU WORK WITH THE BAND YOU SHOULD GET CREDIT.

You think and act like you know so much about music yet you have some pretty uneducated ways of determining who gets credit for songs and who doesnt. You youself said if you are a part in creating something you should get credit?

What's your defination of A PART. I think everyone here will agree MATT was sure a hell of a part of GNR. Jackass

[Freya]

I keep seeing a few jackasses post responces about how he has Big Boots to fill and what not. Scott is in VR. Axl is in GnR. Scott is not trying out for GnR so for everyone who goes to a VR show or listens to the music and says "Axl is missing" or "Scott has alot to go to replace axl" They are two different bands.

Well, this is no doubt pointless, but I think you're being a tad sensitive.  Obviously, a lot of GnR fans are into seeing VR, as a Boston review pointed out the audience went wild for the GnR covers, so it's only natural that Weiland and Axl will be compared and contrasted.  No matter how good Weiland is people will wonder how it would be if Axl and Izzy for that matter were there.  Just the fact that the "Axl sucks" chants are prevalent just shows that he's still on a lot of people's brains.  They choose that chant over "Weiland/Slash rules" so it just shows how linked the personalities are.  

[Surge]

Surge
I try and I try and I'm sorry but I just get to 2, as Matt was just there playing drums. It doesn't count for me. If you play a part in creating something, or if you're there from the start you count. But it doesn't matter much. He was listed as an employee on Live Era too. Now Axl's to blame for that.

So you either have to have a PART in creating something or be there from the START?  SO MATT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH UYI or TSI. I guess matt was just a touring drummer huh?

Why would you give someone credit just for being there in the begining. IF YOU WORK ON A SONG YOU GET CREDIT IF YOU WORK WITH THE BAND YOU SHOULD GET CREDIT.

You think and act like you know so much about music yet you have some pretty uneducated ways of determining who gets credit for songs and who doesnt. You youself said if you are a part in creating something you should get credit?

What's your defination of A PART. I think everyone here will agree MATT was sure a hell of a part of GNR. Jackass

Yeah, Matt was an employee, just as he was listed in Live Era. He can't write music at a GnR-level, which he proved with his debut album, and the only thing he did was to write some drum parts (many were really written by Steven). And Matt was always well instructed by Axl in what to do. I don't rank him too high because of that. He joined GnR, made tons of money and played a boring drum solo. That's pretty much it...

[jarmo]

How dumb off an ass are you?

Don't ask questions like that when you're not exactly coming across as the brightest bulb in the box. I've told you before to read the rules before you continue posting.

Looks like your HTGTH posting career will be shorter than Milli Vanilli's career as international pop stars.



/jarmo

[TK1]

This is the first post I've made, but I've been following this board for a long, long time.  I think it's fair to say the GN'R / VR comparison will never cease.  Ideally, it would be great to sit back and support both bands.  Really, you need to give VR some time to grow; maybe even waiting until their next album to see what they can do.  Axl has been writing and recording for six years; VR has really just started. And, I think from what little we have to compare of both bands, they more than hold their own against Axl.  I love Madagascar and the Blues as much as anybody and drove 4 hours to see Axl in Columbus, OH on their tour, but think YGNR and especially loving the alien are just as good.  And, I'd probably give VR the edge when comparing harder rock songs.  I'm as excited about CD as anybody, but think if you are going to compare VR to them, then give them the same amount of time to grow and establish their chemisty as we've given Axl...

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Yeah, Matt was an employee, just as he was listed in Live Era. He can't write music at a GnR-level, which he proved with his debut album, and the only thing he did was to write some drum parts (many were really written by Steven). And Matt was always well instructed by Axl in what to do. I don't rank him too high because of that. He joined GnR, made tons of money and played a boring drum solo. That's pretty much it...

We'll just have to agree to disagree. When I think of hired guns I think of Josh Freese and how bands like 3 doors down have him throw down a drumbeat and then pick someone different to tour.