NYC Review

[Falcon]

sorry for the dumb question, but what does this mean?

From a Joe Perry-esque existence to modern rock guitar hero..

do you think that VR are going to be absolutely huge and the next big thing in music, ALL music? because people last night at the concert seemed to think so...



ETA: and if the answer is "yes", then do you think they will be ready and willing to carry the torch left behind when Guns and Nirvana bowed out? That's quite a responsibilty for a bunch of guys with families and who, really, just did this out of their pure love for making music (and not some need for money/fame/etc..)

Slash has been associated with blues based playing (like Perry) for years.

Now he's associated and plays with the likes of Dave Navarro and Billy Duffy, highly credible players within the modern rock realm.

As for VR "being the next big thing", with the mass popularity of old GNR or the musical influence and social relevence of Nirvana, highly unlikely.

[jarmo]

Now he's associated and plays with the likes of Dave Navarro and Billy Duffy, highly credible players within the modern rock realm.

Billy Duffy from The Cult is modern rock?   His band was popular even before Slash/GN'R.....

I think Tom Morello is a better example.


But it's interesting that the band is considered "modern" now that they have Weiland in it. Loaded didn't exacly sound like Snakepit, but I guess they weren't "modern" enough.



/jarmo

[Dizzy]

Awesome show!!! Had a special feeling to it. The opening band was aweful. They literally got booed off the stage  -- people are there to have a good time, not to hear your personal oppinion on politics you arogant bastards!!! Dont impose them on me whether I agree with you or not!!!

I agree 1000%.  And I will boo their asses too if they start preaching politics onstage.  Politcs are the last fucking thing I want to think about when I am at a concert having a good time.

[Falcon]

Now he's associated and plays with the likes of Dave Navarro and Billy Duffy, highly credible players within the modern rock realm.

Billy Duffy from The Cult is modern rock?   His band was popular even before Slash/GN'R.....

I think Tom Morello is a better example.


But it's interesting that the band is considered "modern" now that they have Weiland in it. Loaded didn't exacly sound like Snakepit, but I guess they weren't "modern" enough.



/jarmo

Absolutely.  Just like Janes Addiction,  The Cult have been a staple of modern rock radio since the early days of KROQ and are played daily on that station and others formatted that way across the US.

Morello is a fine example as well, although Slash hasn't played with him to my knowledge.

Perception is reality...

[Doc Emmett Brown]

[The punk kids, the real alternative kids. They are not the rock kids, but Scott has crossover appeal and will snag an audience that is rather snobby and elitist about what music they like. I can't tell you how surprised i was to see these people in the audience.

I've been saying this since the day Weiland was announced.

The credibility he brings from the alterna/modern rock crowd is unfathomable.  The same audience that Slash had never sniffed in his prior bands is now bowing in reverence to VR.

Who said he couldn't "evolve"?.....

Evolution complete.

1.  With regards to "bowing in reverence to VR" - I dont know if they're quite there yet.   But you probably have a better pulse on the mindset of those 'snotty and elitist' kids than I do.

2.  These snotty kids who wouldnt listen to GNR - wasnt it because GNR got too big?  See, in indie/alterna-land it's not cool to be big - IMO the worst influence that Nirvana had on modern music.  So if VR does ever get big, they will lose these fans.   'I'd rather be dead than cool'  

But you're right - the transformation from essentially being irrelevant to today's music to gradually becoming accepted on modern rock radio is fascinating to witness.  

I have always wanted Slash to be recognized for his talents - including his amazing blues-style brand of rock n' roll (which you contemptuously dismiss as 'Joe Perry-esque'  ).  If Weiland and his silver pants can open up people's eyes & ears to this, then I'm all for it.  

[younggunner]

Were obviously not all going to agree on this, but i think that Scott's voice surpasses Axl (and i love Axl).

SOrry but its not even close. Axl has much more of a range and he just sounds bette rlive. Again Weiland is excellent but he doesnt standfout at all. When you see him live youll see what i mean.

He isn't Axl, and he has his own thing going, but i found his performance extradionarily effective. I liked his little dancing (more than Axl's running and jumping). I like his strung-out heroine chic look, i like the megaphone, i like the black eyeliner. Scott Weiland brings a "hip" sort of glamorous element into this band and will help to attract a different type of fan, the kind of person who would NEVER be seen at a GnR show (or one with 3/5ths of the new members).

I totally agree. He isnt axl and he doesnt have to be. Hes great at what he does. And i truly like him a lot. But i wasnt blown away by him last night. I was hanging with stp fans all day and after the show they told me how disappointed they were and I was like how can you say that the show wasnt great. They told me that Scott didnt seem to be the same as he did with stp. These peopel have seen him a lot too. Thats from his own hardocre fans. What made the show great for me was duff and slash. Duff was fukin awesome. Now i know why old gnr ruled. Im glad i got to caprture  some of it last night.
Overall he was fine. Hes supercool the way he moves around and dresses. I love it but it just seemes liek something was missing last night.

I couldn't believe seeing these kids walking around the VIP section. The punk kids, the real alternative kids. They are not the rock kids, but Scott has crossover appeal and will snag an audience that is rather snobby and elitist about what music they like. I can't tell you how surprised i was to see these people in the audience.

It was liek that at the gnr show too. Kids wanna see something thats different and good. Both of these bands supply peopel with that. Obiviously scott will bring over more of the "alternative" type fans but overall it was the same as the gnr in msg that i went to.


 

And Booker, i totally agree with you. I don't really make fun of people's clothing either, but the musicians (expecially the second-stringers) DO need to show some discression. Scott looked hot in his little police hat.

I want really referring to you booker, but I'm pretty sure ive read some of your posts that have commented on Pitmans look. I could be wrong though. But it was more towards the peopel who do.

As for your point...its valid and i understand but its also rnr....a guy in a band can dress any way he wants...there are no dresscodes to your posisition in a rock band....

[badgirl]

Awesome show!!! Had a special feeling to it. The opening band was aweful. They literally got booed off the stage  -- people are there to have a good time, not to hear your personal oppinion on politics you arogant bastards!!! Dont impose them on me whether I agree with you or not!!!

I agree 1000%.  And I will boo their asses too if they start preaching politics onstage.  Politcs are the last fucking thing I want to think about when I am at a concert having a good time.

Yup, totally agree. That lead singer was WAY arrogant for someone who is in an opening band... The stunt with Rumsfied fucking Dubya in the ass was crude and not terribly original or funny. Though it was pretty funny to watch them get their asses booed.  


ETA: i wanted to mention that i WAS at MSG for the Guns show so i have seen Axl live and still maintain that i THINK that Scott sounds waaay better. Also, i absolutely DID NOT see those kids at the Garden. Perhaps you don't know the kind of kids i am talking about. The NY downtown "hipster" scene. Trust me, wouldn't be caught dead at a Guns show. Some are my friends and they make fun of me for liking Guns N Roses  .

[Booker Floyd]

I want really referring to you booker, but I'm pretty sure ive read some of your posts that have commented on Pitmans look. I could be wrong though.

You are.  I knew you werent referring to me.  Im not even familiar enough with Pittmans appearence to comment on it...But like many on here, you make assumptions on my opinion and presume its fact...

As for your point...its valid and i understand but its also rnr....a guy in a band can dress any way he wants...there are no dresscodes to your posisition in a rock band....

Im not advocating any dress code, and I dont care how Pittman dresses, just offering a possible explanation of some peoples opinions.

[younggunner]

But like many on here, you make assumptions on my opinion and presume its fact...

I wasnt assuming naything...i actually thought you have made comments on it. But maybe not. I really dont write down who said what....your the one who jumped out on it...

Im not advocating any dress code, and I dont care how Pittman dresses, just offering a possible explanation of some peoples opinions.

Why offer an explanation? If you havnt been involved in this issue or dont know much about it then why even involve yourself. The people who i was adressing can handle it themselves....

[the dirt]

So who are the people that would be caught at a GNR show dead (or alive) these days...creed fans?

Or would creed fans also prefer VR?

I don't really pay attention to that stuff

[badgirl]

So who are the people that would be caught at a GNR show dead (or alive) these days...creed fans?

Or would creed fans also prefer VR?

I don't really pay attention to that stuff

Honestly, people who don't want to believe that the 80's are over.  
No offense, but to many people, Guns N Roses fans don't have terribly sophisticated taste in music. They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception.
Look, i am a fan, but i am reporting what i see and hear out there. I live in New York City which is as diverse a population as you can find and a fairly decent cross-section of America and the westernized world, for that matter. It's sort of funny because i got the same shit when i went to see VR than when i saw Guns back in 2002- that it was going to be mainly a "new jersey" crowd. that kind of says it all, if you understand what "new jersey" means.

[the dirt]

So who are the people that would be caught at a GNR show dead (or alive) these days...creed fans?

Or would creed fans also prefer VR?

I don't really pay attention to that stuff

Honestly, people who don't want to believe that the 80's are over.  
No offense, but to many people, Guns N Roses fans don't have terribly sophisticated taste in music. They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception.
Look, i am a fan, but i am reporting what i see and hear out there. I live in New York City which is as diverse a population as you can find and a fairly decent cross-section of America and the westernized world, for that matter. It's sort of funny because i got the same shit when i went to see VR than when i saw Guns back in 2002- that it was going to be mainly a "new jersey" crowd. that kind of says it all, if you understand what "new jersey" means.

Just wondering about the crowd that goes.

[Falcon]

1.  With regards to "bowing in reverence to VR" - I dont know if they're quite there yet.   But you probably have a better pulse on the mindset of those 'snotty and elitist' kids than I do.

That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but, the mere fact that these types if fans would even be at a show Slash was playing is cool to see.  As for me having " a better pulse on the mindset of those 'snotty and elitist' kids", it's not that at all, I just find the constant movement of popular culture fascinating.  

2.  These snotty kids who wouldnt listen to GNR - wasnt it because GNR got too big?  See, in indie/alterna-land it's not cool to be big - IMO the worst influence that Nirvana had on modern music.  So if VR does ever get big, they will lose these fans.   'I'd rather be dead than cool'  

In part yes, but mostly it was the lifestyle GNR led and the larger than life  manner portrayed by the band during the UYI era.  They became everything they weren't during the AFD period and were blatantly grandiose in everything they did.  Hence, a major backlash by a certain sect of fandom, they needed something else to make their own instead of a band that had started out like "Rocky" in Rocky 1, but ended up the rich bloated character of
Rocky 3, ripe for a knockout.  

I think this element of fans has decidedly decreased since that time period, but, these kids who harbored those sentiments are now your DJ's and program directors at stations who follow the formats set by the music class standards of the early nineties.

Same things happened in the late 70's with the English punk movement, as it always does, history repeated itself.  But this time, in the midst of the MTV era.

I have always wanted Slash to be recognized for his talents - including his amazing blues-style brand of rock n' roll (which you contemptuously dismiss as 'Joe Perry-esque'  ).  If Weiland and his silver pants can open up people's eyes & ears to this, then I'm all for it.  

I would hardly call my "Joe Perry-esque" description of Slash "contemptuous". No doubt, Perry is legendary, but he's hardly a blip on the radar screen of some of the fans VR is apparently reaching.

And yes, Weiland and his silver pants have gotten Slash to a different audience, that's a good thing..

[badgirl]

Well said Falcon.

[Falcon]

"They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception"

Very interesting comments Badgirl.

I've found the die hard male Axl fan to be the kid who was in high school, say 15 to 18 at the time the Illusions came out, .  Anyway, they bought the Illusions, probably hadn't been into AFD much but really dug the opus-like material they and found on UYI and immediately got connected to the huge entity GNR had become.  The big arena shows, dramatic video's, Axl's shenanigens etc.  These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.  They were too young to remember the punk era and the social impact of that time and too blindly loyal (fixated to an extent) to understand why everything changed the second "Smells Like Teen Spirit" broke.

[jarmo]

These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.

As soon as you become the biggest band in the world, you're not "cool" anymore.



/jarmo

[Falcon]

These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.

As soon as you become the biggest band in the world, you're not "cool" anymore.



/jarmo

To a degree, yes.  

But..

At least in the US, it was time for a social and musical enema. Things had gotten stagnant and excess became very uncool.  GNR had become everything excess represented, so to blame it soley on being "the biggest band in the world" isn't exactly the case.  They (GNR) perpetuated the
notion to the greatest degree.

[Jizzo]

Right Now in highschool is cool to like GNR again. But back when I was a freshman, I wore gnr tshirts and everyone made fun of me for liking them. But now there is nothing cooler to wear than my roxy VR tshirt

[badgirl]

"They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception"

Very interesting comments Badgirl.

I've found the die hard male Axl fan to be the kid who was in high school, say 15 to 18 at the time the Illusions came out, .  Anyway, they bought the Illusions, probably hadn't been into AFD much but really dug the opus-like material they and found on UYI and immediately got connected to the huge entity GNR had become.  The big arena shows, dramatic video's, Axl's shenanigens etc.  These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.  They were too young to remember the punk era and the social impact of that time and too blindly loyal (fixated to an extent) to understand why everything changed the second "Smells Like Teen Spirit" broke.

I absolutely agree with this assessment- like i said, not exactly the most aware, savvy of fans.. more just blind worshipers. Look, Axl was the kid who got beaten down and all those kids who have been beaten (the kid with bad skin, the chubby kid, the kid who could never play sports, etc...) see him as their spokesperson, their hero. They see him getting hot girls, blowing cash, living the high life while at the same time, suffering and broken hearted, and the combination of relatability AND fantasy is too much. I think that's why he draws so many, rather obtuse, die-hards.

Funny anecdote- just a few hours ago, my brother and his college friend stopped by. They are both 30 (so prime age when Guns were big). My brother used to love Guns (especially Slash because my brother plays guitar). He and his friend were in a college band (in Indiana) and when his friend saw my Guns book, we started talking about the band. My brother rolled his eyes, and Dave (his friend) mentioned that when he was in high school, he saw them in Indiana. I told him i had that show on DVD. He was totally pumped and we watched most of the show (it has one of Axl's best rants). Dave was totally psyched and my brother could not have been more bored. We then sort of joked my brother for being "too cool" to like GnR, despite liking them just 10 years ago and how i always have to throw in the disclaimer that "i am an unapologetic" Guns fan and i don't care what people think about it.
But that's really the state of the public perception today. It's not "cool" to like Guns and it hasn't been for a while. I am only 25, so i am not too aware of the musical landscape pre-80's (sad, i know), but i am smart and acute enough to try to stay on the pulse, and guys, it aint GnR!  

Jizzo, with all due respect, where do you live? Because certain areas of the country are more known for the arts (new york in particular- it's the cultural capital of the country) Detroit as well, LA too. No offense, and i don't know where you live, but just because Guns N Roses is hot where you live, does not mean it is popular overall. I mean, shit, there are parts of this country that aren't aware that the 80's are in fact over!

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I would hardly call my "Joe Perry-esque" description of Slash "contemptuous". No doubt, Perry is legendary, but he's hardly a blip on the radar screen of some of the fans VR is apparently reaching.

And yes, Weiland and his silver pants have gotten Slash to a different audience, that's a good thing..

I was a little brusque in my last post to you - sorry about that, but I cant let you get away with a "well-said Falcon".  I know you're a Guns/VR fan or else you wouldnt be here, but I distinctly remember you describing his guitar work as '9 minute opus butt rock' or something to that effect.  That's a bit on the contemptuous side, dont you agree?  

These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.  

Yes, GNR became bloated and that was a major element of their downfall.  But for me, it was also specific events that added up to it - for example, if Axl hadnt antagonized Metallica during the ill-fated Guns/Metallica tour, then Kurt would have had to fight both of them.  OIAM didnt help, of course.  Instead Axl continued to make enemies while Kurt placed his pawns, ready for a checkmate.  It is sad & pathetic that GNR's music should be essentially forgotten due to this battle.

So enter VR!   Make people remember!

Perception is reality...

How Orwellian of you Falcon O' Brien...   Are you saying that if VR gets airplay on a KXYZ modern rock station, then people will obediently swallow VR as 'one of them'?  

That says something about the sheep-like nature of these 'snotty & elitist' people.   They wont listen to GNR because Kurt told them not to, but throw in Weiland and there is mass confusion!   Is it ok to like Slash if I am a hip punker?  Decisions, decisions.  

I think this element of fans has decidedly decreased since that time period, but, these kids who harbored those sentiments are now your DJ's and program directors at stations who follow the formats set by the music class standards of the early nineties.

Good point... I hadnt thought of that.  The young hipsters who listen to Hoobastank dont know/remember the parody days of GNR and may accept VR, while the old hipsters are bemused and jerkily mention Slash on the radio.  

VR is doing a good thing by playing KROQ's Weenie Roast.  I cant really gauge how big they'll become...  I remember when people said The Strokes would be the next big thing, but it didnt happen.  

Another good thing is their down to earth image despite their obvious rockstar qualities - something Audioslave doesnt have.  If they can play both angles, then perception really does equal reality  

For all their talk about dissing the Rockstar persona, if these punkers & hipsters embrace VR it just shows that people do want (and need) the rockstar in music.  Because without one, you end up with someone like Fred Durst.