Slash & Duff to sue Axl!

[BeefyD]

What a lot of people here have to remember is that this has NOTHING to do about the name Guns 'n Roses. It's about who owns the songs and how they can use them.

Just because Axl wrote the lyrics doesn't mean he soley owns them.
Remember, Michael Jackson owns most of the Beatles publishing rights. Paul McCartney has NO SAY SO as to how the songs are used in commercials or movies, etc.

So, it comes down to who owns the publishing rights to the songs. If Duff and Slash gave up their part legally (which I would think someone here would have record of), then they have NO SAY.  However, if they are still partial owners of the songs legally, then they should have a say-so as to how they get used.

Just remember, the next time you hear The Beatles "Revolution" being pimped out to sell deoderant, it's Wacko Jacko's doing, not Lennon/McCartney.

This is the best soap opera in the world!
In addition, this is a quote from Axl about giving Steven part of his publishing rights for Appetitite in RIP in 1992:
"At one point, in order to keep this band together, it was necessary for me to give him a portion of my publishing rights. That was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life, but he threw such a fit, saying he wasn't going to stay in the band. We were worried about not being able to record our first album, so I did what I felt I had to do. In the long run I paid very extensively for keeping Steven in Guns N' Roses. I paid $1.5 million by giving him 15% of my publishing off of Appetite For Destruction. He didn't write one goddamn note, but he calls me a selfish dick! "

[Dizzy]

Just because Axl wrote the lyrics doesn't mean he soley owns them.

And in a lot of cases, he didn't write the lyrics.  According to the writing credits that he admitted to back in 1988, he only wrote 1/2 of the lyrics on AFD.

What a lot of people here have to remember is that this has NOTHING to do about the name Guns 'n Roses. It's about who owns the songs and how they can use them.

So, it comes down to who owns the publishing rights to the songs. If Duff and Slash gave up their part legally (which I would think someone here would have record of), then they have NO SAY.  However, if they are still partial owners of the songs legally, then they should have a say-so as to how they get used.

Indeed, and that's what this is about, not the usage of the GNR name.

[badapple81]

What a mess, what was once the biggest and greatest rock band on the planet, has turned out to be  

It's six to one or half a dozen to the other as they say.. I can see where Slash & Duff are coming from.. and I can see where Axl is coming from.. although yes I tend to agree, that if he wants to use new GNR recordings, perhaps he should use a new song written by the new band.

[St.heathen]

but of course im sure slash and duff wouldnt care a bit as long as they were makin money

Man surely you can evaluate the situation by looking at the past 8 years or so.  Neither of them has abused the GNR name, at most -they have performed a couple of songs here and there. Do people associate them with Guns? Yes they do and they always will.  They speak about Guns because people ask them, people are interested.
Because they were key figures in creating it all, so that in my mind says that they all should have a say into how their music is released.  

Wasn't that an argument that most here posed about the GH? That it didn't have the band members say or involvement to make it a more decent - fan -appriciating feel to it?

I happen  to think the reasons about the film releases is a bit weak. Axl has a good sense of quality control.  Apart from Black hawk down only because it was based on a real event and it would have been cool to have GNR be apart of that history.  The other films mentioned - it wouldn't have been a good thing.  But i think their case is perhaps more to do with control than just the money.

 

[St.heathen]

In the latest weeks issue of Radio and Rercords they had an interview with Duff. In the interview Duff goes on to say he was pulling for Axl in 02 and "i've moved way beyond that (GNR) and that was a long time ago for me."

Point is They (Slash,Duff) do all these interviews saying how they have moved past the guns n roses days. But then they go file this bullshit lawsuit. What the fuck! This could of been done 5 years ago but they know they cant sell a fucking copy of Contraband unless it has a GNR connection to sell it. From what I have heard its sounds ok nothing awesome. The guitar work is great but the lyrics are terrible. Weiland cant sing and I cant stand the sound of his coked-up voice.

Another point is Slash,Duff,Gilby,Matt all walked away from GNR. Its like quiting a job and showing back up 10 years later and saying hey boss you owe me some money. Whats the boss going to say Fuck You!!! You quit!!

But what if you had helped create the product being sold?  Would you just walk away?  Not many people would.

[Naupis]

Another point is Slash,Duff,Gilby,Matt all walked away from GNR. Its like quiting a job and showing back up 10 years later and saying hey boss you owe me some money. Whats the boss going to say Fuck You!!! You quit!!


They may have walked away from the band, but they didn't sell Axl their share of control in the songs. Its like owning a Stock you may have obtained while working for a company, you may leave that company but you still own the stock you obtained while working there. You might not work for company X anymore, but as a share holder you still have a direct say in what happens with that company's assetts. In this case those songs are kind of like the company and the writing credits assigned to Slash/Duff and the others are the stock.


The bigger question....what would it do to GNR were Slash/Duff to actually pull this lawsuit off and gain extra control over use of the back catalog. They would not be wasting litigation and lawyer fee's (and no lawyer would even take the case if they didn't see themselves getting part of the final payout by winning) if they didn't at least think there was a reasonable chance for success. What would this do to Axl's mental stability and the future of GNR?

[Freya]

p.s. What you said about Petty sensing the future - that's very interesting.  I love his lyrics and I think he was able to feel things like that.

What about the video?  Johnny Depp as an innocent small town boy who turns into a mess of a rock star?  Totally based on Axl and a bit of Slash with the awards ceremony part.

I kind of actually have respected Axl's decisions not to let just anybody use their songs.  
 

Don't you get it?  Axl was going to let the movie use the song, he just was going to let them use some crappy version re-recorded by the new band so that Slash, Duff and co wouldn't receive any royalties for songs THEY HELPED WRITE.  In other words, Axl wanted to stab them both in the back.

Hello?  That was the first post under this topic, before I even knew about the BHD thing, don't speak to me like I'm a moron.  Save it for the morons.  I realize Axl was trying to punish them with the WTTJ thing.  I'm still somewhat sympathetic to both sides of the dispute though.  Fact is Axl and Slash have widely opposing views on how to manage their music, if Slash were to get a majority vote with Duff and whoever else, GnR's music could be whored out to places it maybe should not go.  Although yes, I do not think they should be cheated out of their monies.  

[D]

Untrue.  Somebody on this board once went into some big chatroom that was unrelated to any type of music and asked people what they thought of when they heard the name Guns N Roses.  The overwhelming majority said "Axl and Slash".

there ya go, a chatroom said it so it is true!!!!!!!

axl isnt whoring the name out by continuing on, he didnt quit guns n roses, they quit so why should he have to start over?

why should he turn his back on everything he worked to help create just cause bandmembers want to leave?

i dont think its fair and u know i always am sensitive to millionaires cryin cause they may have missed out on another million dollars or so

boo fuckin whoooooooo

are slash and duff still gettin royalties from album sells? yes they are so they should be happy and shut up!

axl still is tryin to do something with Guns N Roses, putting old songs in every movie coming and going would hurt whatever progress he intends to make

i applaud axl for not whoring out the GNR catalogue and i think everyone should give axl a hand for not doing so

but its the slash and duff and old band loyalist on here that talk shit regardless of what axl should do

dizzy u bitch at me for talkin bout george w bush and how he is damned either way, well u know axl is damned either way

if he had gnr songs in every movie comin and goin u would be the first on here bitchin about how he is capitalizing further from former  gnr success etc etc so u call me a hypocrite, u are one in the same

and dont say u wouldnt be the first to say something like this cause i and everyone knows u take any opportunity to bash axl

to old gnr fans no one ever holds slash and the old members accountable for shit, its all axl's fault! everything is axls fault and im tired of it!

slash and poor duff arent innocent victims they have their fair share of blame, its just no one ever holds them accountable

[kockstar99]

Don't you get it?  Axl was going to let the movie use the song, he just was going to let them use some crappy version re-recorded by the new band

why does it have to be crappy version?? The versions that the New Band play are way better than the AFD version... The New band plays it way better than the old did.. The guitars are fuller, louder not to mention that the drums are way better than fucking Popcorn could ever play...

Id rather hear and audence recording or Soundboard of the new band than the Studio Version from the old... coz it sounds old...

so that Slash, Duff and co wouldn't receive any royalties for songs THEY HELPED WRITE.  

yeah thats it... he wanted to rerecord it coz of the old band members... oh and FYI they would have recieved royalties from the song... roylaties for writing the song, just not for playing on it... get it right if ur gonna make assumtions like that...

In other words, Axl wanted to stab them both in the back.

in your words     Nobody would have gave it 2 seconds of thought if that movie had an AFD version of WTTJ on it... a new version by the new band would have gotten alot of interest... interest in his new band.. the band hes trying to promote ... unlike Slash and Duff hes interested in putting his new band on Soundtracks ... VR needs to do the same.. worry about putting VR songs on more soundtracks.. not GnR....

Axl has a long track record of fucking people over, so I hope they sue his ass off.

of course you do.. Coz you know that Contraband is gonna be a shitty album... if Slither is any indication of whats to come then id be worrying about old GnR songs on soundtracks also... instead of concentrating on thier new band and thier new tour..

Contraband will straight to the bargin bin by the end of the summer....

[kockstar99]

They may have walked away from the band, but they didn't sell Axl their share of control in the songs.

yes they did...they dont control the songs anymore Guns n Roses and Geffen do..  They have no more right to say what projects a Guns n Roses recorded song are on than Chris Webber does...

Its like owning a Stock you may have obtained while working for a company, you may leave that company but you still own the stock you obtained while working there.

Thats why they still get royalties from the songs or (stocks as you put it)  you may still get the royalties from the songs but if you quit the company you dont have a say in the day to day workings or decisions of the company anymore ... you quit....

You might not work for company X anymore, but as a share holder you still have a direct say in what happens with that company's assetts.

no... thats dead wrong...  you go buy some stock in WalMart and then try to tell the company what to do just coz your a share holder..... Dead wrong...

In this case those songs are kind of like the company and the writing credits assigned to Slash/Duff and the others are the stock.

thats all they are are writing and performing credits for the old recordings... thats it..... they cant decide what Guns n Roses songs are used for what project.. only Guns n Roses and Geffen can.... They know that too...

They would not be wasting litigation and lawyer fee's (and no lawyer would even take the case if they didn't see themselves getting part of the final payout by winning) if they didn't at least think there was a reasonable chance for success.

This will never go to court... its a publicty stunt... what does it cost maybe a few hundred bucks for them to file a lawsuit that they know will get thrown out anyways??
Its a chicken shit way to hype the VR album thats out in a month.. If it truly were about the money from the lost sound tracks it would have been filed and brought up years ago when Axl turned down those old movies...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

so that Slash, Duff and co wouldn't receive any royalties for songs THEY HELPED WRITE.  

yeah thats it... he wanted to rerecord it coz of the old band members... oh and FYI they would have recieved royalties from the song... roylaties for writing the song, just not for playing on it... get it right if ur gonna make assumtions like that...

In other words, Axl wanted to stab them both in the back.

in your words     Nobody would have gave it 2 seconds of thought if that movie had an AFD version of WTTJ on it... a new version by the new band would have gotten alot of interest... interest in his new band.. the band hes trying to promote ... unlike Slash and Duff hes interested in putting his new band on Soundtracks ... VR needs to do the same.. worry about putting VR songs on more soundtracks.. not GnR....

Thank you.  Two good points.  First one:  YES They would get royalties for the song just as though it was a cover....
the way whoever owns the rights to KOHD or LALD gets royalties when the old band perfomred 'em.  So they wouldn't be getting screwed out of 'their rights' or 'their money'.

and second:  Excellent.  Yes, they should be planning how to get VR songs on some more movies and make money off of that - where they don't need Axl's okay.  and another thing regarding Black Hawk Down - at least he can recognize a quality movie *coughnottheHulkpieceofshitcough*    

[Dizzy]

why does it have to be crappy version?? The versions that the New Band play are way better than the AFD version... The New band plays it way better than the old did..

This statement alone lets me know that I don't even need to read anything else you wrote.

[Will]

This statement alone lets me know that I don't even need to read anything else you wrote.

Why's that? Because someone prefers the way an AFD song is played by the new band, his/ her opinion is automatically wrong and not interesting?

[kockstar99]

This statement alone lets me know that I don't even need to read anything else you wrote.

too bad you did and couldnt come up with anything to back up "sue his ass off"

Its a sad day for you VR fans isnt it... coz all the shit you all accused Axl of for soooo many months... the banter you all spewed about "Slash and Duff have moved on"
and "Slash and Duff dont need the GnR name" all that shit you all accused Axl Rose of being Slash and Duff just proved they are exactly what you all accused Axl of being....


Slash and Duff just proved that they are not above the same things the VR fans all accused Axl Rose of doing...

They need to worry about thier album and thier tour not if Guns n Roses songs will be put on soundtracks... you all know that...They know that... and thats not what this is about... Its about trying to start a public fued with Axl Rose on the eve of thier debut album dropping....

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

This statement alone lets me know that I don't even need to read anything else you wrote.

Its a sad day for you VR fans isnt it... coz all the shit you all accused Axl of for soooo many months... the banter you all spewed about "Slash and Duff have moved on"
and "Slash and Duff dont need the GnR name" all that shit you all accused Axl Rose of being Slash and Duff just proved they are exactly what you all accused Axl of being....


Slash and Duff just proved that they are not above the same things the VR fans all accused Axl Rose of doing...

They need to worry about thier album and thier tour not if Guns n Roses songs will be put on soundtracks... you all know that...They know that... and thats not what this is about... Its about trying to start a public fued with Axl Rose on the eve of thier debut album dropping....

  so true... SO TRUE!
but they'll never admit it  
Axl is always the bad guy... even when they are attacking him  

[noizzynofuture]

Damn it took me an hour to get through all these posts and it i'm no more the wiser, just more confused.
 

One thought that occurred to me was

Why do you think axl was so adamant about getting the name signed over to him during the illusion era or post illusion era as far as the money is concerned ?

I've heard the debates about how axl took advantage of slash and the other guys by using threats not to perform but what really hit me was, would i have done the same thing ?

Think about it.  During a recent interview slash and especially duff talk about how wasted and bad off they were during these years to the point they couldn't remember large chunks of the tour and allot of specific events that happened.

IMO axl probably looked around him and realized that this thing was going to end up badly and decided to take control of what he interpreted as the titanic going down steered by a bunch of junkies.  He may have also known at that time that the other guys just weren't going to be able to write and perform new songs and that creating another album with them would have been torture as the drugs may have robbed them of the mental and physical tools necessary to do so.

Maybe axl did us all a big favor by securing the name and not having it used in 3 or 4 different formats like so many groups end up doing.  Can't remember allot of the bands but some have several different lineups on tour trying to capitalize on old hits and they're all using the same name. Steppenwolf comes to mind as in John kay and as well as several other variations.

It just an opinion but after looking at snakepit and loaded axl may have saved the name much more than any of us will ever know.

Kind of ironic that many people talk of him exploiting and ruining the name by reforming with all new members but maybe in the end uncle axl knew what was best for the name.

Just my two cents, and i'm glad axl has control of the name and music cus i don't want to hear paradise city in some fertilizer commerical to make some cheap money.

[kockstar99]

so true... SO TRUE!
but they'll never admit it  
Axl is always the bad guy... even when they are attacking him  

haha its nice to see the VR fans eat their own words for once isnt it Eva?... If I was Axl id release the best song he has recorded as a single a week before VR's album hits the shelves....

Something soooo bad ass that it just takes over the airwaves... something to go number 1 on the Rock Charts.. Something to make the VR album go un noticed for the week or two because all Music media coverage would be on the new GnR song....

[volcano62]

so true... SO TRUE!
but they'll never admit it  
Axl is always the bad guy... even when they are attacking him  

haha its nice to see the VR fans eat their own words for once isnt it Eva?... If I was Axl id release the best song he has recorded as a single a week before VR's album hits the shelves....

Something soooo bad ass that it just takes over the airwaves... something to go number 1 on the Rock Charts.. Something to make the VR album go un noticed for the week or two because all Music media coverage would be on the new GnR song....

Is it possible to release only 1 song?

[Dizzy]

Something soooo bad ass that it just takes over the airwaves... something to go number 1 on the Rock Charts.. Something to make the VR album go un noticed for the week or two because all Music media coverage would be on the new GnR song....

Dream on.  Yeah, I can just see another "Oh My God" dominating the charts.  

[younggunner]

Yeah, I can just see another "Oh My God" dominating the charts.

I know because cd,maddy and the blues sound so much like omg