Slash & Duff to sue Axl!

[Naupis]

I knew that, but I am going to venture to say that was the last time they have had any contact because when asked Gilby has said he knows nothing about New Gnr's projects. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[jarmo]

Axl Rose Sued By Ex-Guns N' Roses Bandmates

In March, guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan joined forces with their old singer in Guns N' Roses, Axl Rose, to file a lawsuit against their former label to prevent it from releasing a Guns N' Roses greatest-hits album. They lost.

Now, Slash (a.k.a. Saul Hudson), McKagan and Rose again have their names on a legal document, only this time their union is adversarial: the two members of Velvet Revolver are suing Axl for at least $1 million, according to "Celebrity Justice."

In the suit, Rose is accused of rejecting requests to use old Guns N' Roses songs in major motion pictures even though he lacks controlling interest in the material. Slash and McKagan added that they weren't consulted when their ex-bandmate nixed lucrative offers from the makers of "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochy," "Old School" and "Just Married."

The suit also claims Rose killed negotiations with the producers of "Black Hawk Down," who wanted to use "Welcome to the Jungle" in their movie. He allegedly had wanted to re-record the track with the new members of GN'R he had hired so Slash and McKagan wouldn't receive any licensing payment.

Rose's management had no comment on the suit.



?Jon Wiederhorn


www.MTV.com



/jarmo

[PhillyRiot]

Axl probably couldn't even complete a new recording of WTTJ then.  Pathetic.

I hope Slash and Duff win the case, and I look forward to seeing them in Philly on the 28th.  

[nesquick]

Axl probably couldn't even complete a new recording of WTTJ then.  Pathetic

Axl would do a techno/rock version of "welcome to the jungle" with samples, with an electronical horrible voice like in "oh my god" and he would tell scooter (the german techno DJ) to help him to put a 300 bp for the drums... and he would finish with a "YO MAN!" at the end because Axl is Hip-Hop now, yeah it is the trend it's "cool"...
Pathetic is the word. he would destroy the song, like he destroyed "Use Your illusion 2" with "My world".
MC-Axl will be back very soon! "yo man!"  

[Booker Floyd]

This thread is just a mess, so Ill just limit my post...

For those who suspect there might be some kind of conspiracy with the timing...It costs money and takes time to look into and then file these lawsuits (meaning its probably been looked into for awhile).  And unlike Axl, neither Slash are Duff are incredibly litigious (at least not to my knowledge).  So to go through with something like this seems pretty serious, so for them to plan it as a [hardly effective] promotional method doesnt seem rational, especially when the realities of the suit will far outlast any short-term "promotional" value, and especially since VR havent exactly had any problems in the PR department.  I really doubt that theyre happy about doing this, but if they feel theyre getting screwed, and it appears that way, then its certainly worth pleading their case.

[Izzy]

Pathetic is the word. he would destroy the song, like he destroyed "Use Your illusion 2" with "My world".

If i've told u once i've told u a million time, don't exaggerate

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Just reading that bit about GNR could have been included on the 'We were soldiers' soundtrack - i can't really see helicopters riding into battle accopanied by welcome to the jungle (warfare)....

-------------
ps. Booker, i think your being a bit naive - 'lawsuits take time', yes but not 3 years for something as straightforward as this........

And don't u think its a little convenient: VR are struggling for money (somehow)  and have an expensive tour about to start.....

....and now have a quick and easy way of making money.........wonderful how things work out?

[nesquick]

Without "my world", "Use Your Illusion 2" would have been considered as one of the greatest record of all time. Unfortunately that song killed the record. I don't exagerate, this is the truth.

[madagas]

Booker, Axl usually gets sued!!!! He is involved in lawsuits because people sue him or the brand Gnr...I don't recall many lawsuits he filed himself. Please enlighten me......

[Continental Drift]

Just my two cents. I am a paralegal for a film production company that has to deal with securing master use and synch. licenses all the time. BUT I have not been to law school yet NOR have I seen any of the GN'R contracts, etc. So really just a bit of guess work with some limited experience in the field. Take it with a grain of salt and I welcome all feedback:

Anyway, unless there's some hidden "surprise" in Slash and Duff's GN'R contracts or termination settlements from 96-97... I fully expect that Axl's veteran legal team will make quick work of this suit. From the outside, Axl and his lawyers are definitely holding all the cards here.  

The old members continue to be compensated on a daily basis for their previous work (cd sales, airplay, etc.). As far as we know, they were richly compensated for both selling their "controlling rights" to Axl and then further upon their departure from the band. Further, everything I have ever read has stated that what Axl actually bought from Slash and Duff was "controlling interest" in the band... which to me would suggest that he is in effect both the majority owner and CEO of Guns N' Roses and in the judge's eyes positioned to not only carry on under the GN'R moniker but also to determine the business direction of the Guns N' Roses franchise and to say "yes" or "no" to any and all business propositions that come the franchise's  way (This is not without its limitations though as the GH case showed- but I believe that cuts more to the Axl-Universal/Geffen business relationship and not the Axl-Slash/Duff business relationship). Additionally, the passage of time and ample examples of the business model operating according to these paremeters without so much as a whimper from Slash and Duff also damages their case and just reinforces Axl's position.

It would appear to me that Slash and Duff are little more than minority shareholders with royalty rights and perhaps additional other limited rights. In the normal business world- their only recourse would be to try to rally a majority of the shareholders for a vote of "no-confidence" against the CEO and force him out. However, since I believe Axl is not only the sitting CEO, but ALSO the majority shareholder, I think Slash and Duff have ZERO opportunity to turn the tables there.

As I said in the beginning, their best hope has to be that something in the language of their old GN'R contracts or termination settlement has been misinterpreted or abused for going on nearly 10 years now and it is only now come to their attention. That is possible, but highly unlikely. Something tells me Axl's lawyers went through these contracts with a fine tooth comb well before Slash and Duff's lawyers did. Especially considering Axl put down a healthy sum for the name and "controlling interest".

Perhaps they could conceed Axl's "decision making authority", and build a case around "gross negligence" instead, but I suspect they would have to show that Axl deliberately deprived them of revenue streams for no other reason than vindictive spite or completely incompetent business decision making. But it would seem to me that Axl's lawyers can just say that Axl vetoed many of these projects because he "thought GN'R's association with such questionable movies/projects would ultimately do more harm than good for the brand name, and that that decision is certainly the perrogative of any CEO/majority shareholder, etc.". At the end of the day, it's not as if Axl turned down Titanic or The Lord of the Rings. With the exception of BHD- these were all questionable/marginal projects.

I could be missing something... in fact a lot since Slash and Duff did find a way to block the re-recording of WTJ for BHD. But that could be little more than a limited clause in their contracts or settlement agreements barring re-recordings which would deprive them of their master use license fees/royalty fees, but I'm not certain that's enough to claim "controlling interest" in the songs. It's more a measure to restrict Axl's ability to bar them from collecting on master use license fees/royalties, but it would not appear to be a tool for them to force Axl to license out GN'R music to any and all projects they want him to.

I'm not prepared to go down the path of suggesting that this is a PR stunt for VR. More likely, there's some phrase or language in one of the contracts that has been eating at Slash and Duff's lawyers for some time and they have always felt that it was worth a shot at some point along the way to see if they couldn't get their clients a piece of the controlling interest in the potential goldmine that is the licensing of the GN'R song catalog. Perhaps the whole GH suit had them studying the contracts again very carefully and they discovered (or re-discovered) something interesting and decided now was the time to pursue it. Who knows.

Oh well. Let the judge decide. I think we all agree though that it's never good to see GN'R back in the courthouse.

[jarmo]

Without "my world", "Use Your Illusion 2" would have been considered as one of the greatest record of all time. Unfortunately that song killed the record. I don't exagerate, this is the truth.

Nope, sorry. Back on topic.



/jarmo

[younggunner]

I really doubt that theyre happy about doing this, but if they feel theyre getting screwed, and it appears that way, then its certainly worth pleading their case.

I know they must have been so torn in making this descsion that it took them from 98-2003 to make a descsion.Poor fellas

So to go through with something like this seems pretty serious, so for them to plan it as a [hardly effective] promotional method doesnt seem rational, especially when the realities of the suit will far outlast any short-term "promotional" value,

Um, being that many think its a promtional stunt, the conclusion of the suit is irrelevant. The fact that they are suing Axl during the time of their release is lame. really lame. Now when articles discuss the suit they will also discuss vr. and thats the goal...the verdict of the suit is meaningless.

Once again you piant an nice saint liek picture for slash yet its axls fault or his territory. i love it......who cares though slash and duff are liars case closed.

[Walapino]

I dont know but if someone wanted to re-record a song just to cheat the real writers out of money I would sue his ass for as long as he lives for being a stupid selfish crying cunt!  

[marknroses]

I think in the last 5 years, we've seen Axl's true face. I will always admire the dude for his incredible talents, but now this is very sad.  

ppl seem to be forgetting here that even decent people like Robert John are suing Axl because he messed around with their financial deals (not to mention Gilby Clarke). I also wonder if Josh Richman is still friends with Axl, or Sebatchian Bach etc... This is the man who won't even let his greatest professional partner ever, Slash, attend his show (as if he's afraid to prove himself to the old members).

VR would welcome Axl at any of their gigs (though Im sure Axl won't leave even leave his house on any given nite, let alone the night of their shows) because Slash and Duff and Matt are ultimately like you and me and they know when to "Live and Let Live". Axl is just the opposite. He sings about that every nite he performs.

Axl is a very sick man ladies and gents. Everything for him is Victory or Death, and in the process of achieving the ultimate Victory, he's discarded everyone and everything that helped him achieve his stardom in his first place...everyone from Tom Zutaut to Izzy Stradlin, to Josh Richman, to Roy Thomas Baker to us, his fans. He has taken his rock n roll out of the stadiums and he's put it into a court of law because he's trying to cover his own tracks from all the shit he's put people through. He's just like Michael Jackson. he may not molest kids, but he certainly is a bad man to be doing business with. Then again, everytime something pulls through, its a success (until the CD tour 2002).

To the people out there who still believe in Axl and CD, you are all sick as well. Axl has worn out his welcome. It will never matter anymore how great CD is because VR already is putting out a cool record, they have great chemistry, a good-looking frontman in Scott Weiland who's hip and "slithers". Even the name VELVET REVOLVER is a shitload cooler than Chinese Democracy VR is becoming a huge band on the music scene almost immediately while us fans were wasting our time the last 5 years arguing on whether the new GNR could even attract girls  
Now Slash and Duff have a lawsuit against Axl that demonstrates to the public how sikk Axl is over control that he's willing to pursue all options to maintain it (if the MTV Vma's weren't enough to show how sikk the man is).

-We're also talking about a guy who nearly bought back "November Rain" to never released it, thereby almost robbing GNR and their fans of further musical glory.
-We're also talking about a man who forced Izzy out of the band because composed a contract to reduce Izzy's pay because he didn't move around stage like the other members.
-We're talking about a guy who threatened to have his bodyguards beat up Mick Wall because he didn't like his piece in Kerrang from 1990.

We're also talking about a musical genius here and Im aware of that. But just because you ike his music doesn't mean you have to like the man. Im sure he's misunderstood but the longer he stays away from the public eye, the less credibility he has.
Meanwhile, the Philly fans can anticiapte the return of GNR in May with VR. Im in Boston and will be seeing VR on 5/29 in a club with the intimacy and sonic boom that was so lacking when nu-GNR was here in 2002. VR can do the stadiums laters once their album has gone 3-4 PLATINUM. They put a couple of months of work into that. Axl will be lucky now if he sells that much after 7+ years in the studio.

When you listen to Tom Petty's "Into The Great Wide Open", have W. Axl Rose in mind. Tom Petty sang with him a couple of times in 1989 and I think he sensed that Axl was about to lose it all. It was a prophecy that unfortunately came true. we have now lost a great musical genius (but at least we get his cool lead guitarist and bassist as compensation!)
 
Mark N' Roses

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Thank you for sharing your insight on the topic MaoAxl  

Very interesting and well stated.
Great points.  I think that Axl owning the GN'R name will come into play on this big time.

[younggunner]

To the people who still believe in Axl and CD, you are all sick as well

Are we severely sickened or is it temporary. Some tussin cure it?

[Booker Floyd]

Um, being that many think its a promtional stunt, the conclusion of the suit is irrelevant. The fact that they are suing Axl during the time of their release is lame. really lame. Now when articles discuss the suit they will also discuss vr. and thats the goal...the verdict of the suit is meaningless.

So theyre going to spend money on legal fees and burden themselves with legal proceedings just so they can get some mentions in news outlets?  If thats what yout think...

[NickNasty]

Isn't all this ironic? When the band really started "breaking up" back in 1995 (or in 91, if you want to include Izzy), there wasn't nearly as much acrimony...A few press releases and people just left....suddenly, almost 9 years after the fact, we're seeing all the nastiness usually associated with 'bad' breakups. It's dissapointing, but it proves that Axl isn't the only one to blame here (though he certainly shoulders most of it.), IMO...all these guys (except Izzy, who has actually moved on) are egomaniacal pricks.

[Death Cube K]

I dont have anything against Slash and Duff having a go at Axl per-se. I have a problem with the timing. Are you guys so dumb that you wont even see that they at least thought of the timing and how it would be great for more than the reason to shove some paperwork up Axl's ass yet again. Anyone would have at least thought twice about it.

They are still getting an awful lot of money from the songs and albums sold. I hardly see the difference of income by having some songs on some really sucky movies up to a couple of decent ones. Mind you, films that music does very little on. A film like "We were Soldiers" for example. Who can remember any music from that movie? It's not really needed. You just need the orchestral arangements and the odd 60-70s song and thats about it.

It's like Im having this dinner and when Im done there's some bits and pieces on the plate couldnt care less about since Im pretty full as it is. I then proceede to sue the manager of the restaurant for taking away my plate before I was finished.

[The New Fiona Apple]

Former Guns N' Roses Members Fight for Control of Songs

Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses ruled rock in the '80s with hits like "Sweet Child of Mine" and "Paradise City." The original band members parted ways in 1995, but now, former band mates Slash, whose real name is Saul Hudson, and Duff McKagan are suing Rose, claiming he ripped them off to the tune of at least a million dollars.

Duff and Slash now have a new band called Velvet Revolver, and are about to go on tour. But they're bound to have some things on their mind -- mainly the lawsuit against their former front man which pertains to who controls the rights to old Guns N' Roses hits.

In the suit, Duff and Slash claim Rose doesn't have any controlling interest in the songs, but they say he killed deals that would have put their tunes in a half dozen movies, including "Just Married," "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochie" and "Old School."

And you won't hear the band's huge hit, "Welcome to the Jungle" in the movie "Blackhawk Down," because, according to the lawsuit, Axl wouldn't let the producers use it. Instead, he wanted to re-record it, thereby allegedly cheating his ex-band mates out of the licensing fee.

David Powell runs "The Music Bridge," a company that deals with music rights for movies. According to Powell, "Licensing is very important for any band or any artist that gets out there in popular culture."

In Powell's business, when the movies come calling, most bands seem eager to participate, since, "There are many income streams that can be generated from the songs, as well as the master recordings, for years and sometimes generations to come."

source: http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/news/0405/03a.html

It makes sense.  Axl is a Cutthroat business man.

But I have one problem, Why is this 9 years late and so close the the Contraband release date?

[Mattgnr]

How would such people react, if it was the other way around?  Looking at Death cube, Young gunner and SCLPLUNK.