Why GNR covered C. Manson ?

[//JK75]

I was thinking about "Look at your game girl" the hidden track on the Spaguetti and started to search some info about it.. I found this site:

http://www.charliemanson.com/music.htm

At first I was wondering does Charles Manson sing ? and I found all the info about the Lie album and I even found the song on Kazaa. This is the part about GNR:

[ "The Spaghetti Incident" by Guns N' Roses.  This originally had an unlisted 13th song at the very end which was written by Manson.  Apparently newer copies have removed the Manson song.  There was a big stink over this due to Manson possibly making money off of it (he had written the material before the murders and after he had been released from prison).  Charlie could have made $62,000 for every million copies sold, but in the end, it was decided the money would go to Frykowski's son (who has reportedly passed away since).  Axl Rose has appeared in concert (and the video "Estranged") wearing a Manson t-shirt. ]

I want to ask you... why do you think Axl covered Manson ?

I like the song... but I think they covered only because it was from Manson and maybe they want to start some controversy but when I read that Manson could have recieved money from that recording I thought It would suck... and now that Axl has removed the song from the album he seems to be regret for it.

What do you think ?

[LimeGreen_Engines]

It was Marilyn Manson that turned Axl onto Charles Manson and suggested he listen to his stuff.

The song is absolute shite and the guy is just a fucked up old man.

[MR.BROWNSTONE]

I have no idea why Axl put that song on the album. Only he knews that. Maybe it was for controversy and to help sell more albums.  

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

In a statement and some interviews Axl speaks about how he discovered the song and why he covered it.  His brother liked to play "Who sings this tune" whenever they would have a get together and would play an obscure song on the stereo and they would all guess as to who was singing.  This one time Stuart played "Look At Your Game Girl" for Axl and Axl really liked the song and could relate to the lyrics cause of what he was going through at the time.  When he found out it was Charlie Manson he was very surprised.  
He covered the song cause he could relate to the lyrics and thought it would be a song some people may be interested in hearing sung by someone else (Axl).

Also, Marilyn Manson CLAIMS he was the one responsible for turning Axl on to Manson.  This is not true.  Axl had been wearing a Charlie Manson t-shirt on stage since 1991.  He also appears in a Charlie Manson shirt in the Tokyo Videos which were recorded in February 1992 -more than a year before Axl ever met Marilyn at the U2 concert and had a conversation with him.  Also in some early photos Axl can be seen wearing  a Zeppelin t-shirt with a bunch of crazy images on it, including an image of Manson.

If you want I can go dig up Axl's statement about "Look At Your Game Girl" and post it on here.

[cdogg]

Written by: "Look At Your Game Girl" was written by Charles Manson.
Written in: "Look At Your Game Girl" was written in or before 1963.

Performed live: "Look At Your Game Girl" was never performed live.

In Their Own Words

Axl: It's come to my attention that some people have taken offence to a particular song, "Look At Your Game, Girl," on our new album The Spaghetti Incident?.

Slash: Stuart, Axl's brother, had a copy of the Manson cassette, and that particular song had significant lyrical matter, especially since Manson was singing it. We were a little bit shy about doing it, because we didn't want anybody to pin us on a Manson thing.

Axl: Personally, I liked the lyrics and the melody of the song. Hearing it shocked me and I thought there might be other people who would like to hear it.

Gilby: Axl played me the Manson song, "Look at Your Game Girl", and I said, "That's pretty good." Then he told me what it was and I just went, "What?"

Axl: I like the words because, to me, it's about a woman who has thrown things away. She thinks she's gaining love but basically she's gaining sadness. It was very fitting for a personal situation I happened to be in. The song talks about how the girl is insane and playing a mad game. I felt that it was ironic that such a song was recorded by Charles Manson, someone who should know the inner intricacies of madness.

Axl: The reason we didn't list that song on our album is we wanted to downplay it. We don't give any credit to Charles Manson on the album; it's like a hidden bonus truck.

Slash: There's a rumor that he didn't write it. I got a phone call from someone who said it was written by Dennis Wilson and somebody else. To this day we still don't know who the fuck wrote it. We did it anyway, but we didn't want to put its title and Charlie Manson's name on the record. None of us are into that for a serial killer's sake. We didn't want to give him the credit.

Axl: It is my understanding that the song was written by Dennis Wilson. To what extent Charles Manson is involved in the publishing, I'm not aware.

Slash: It's sort of a parody almost.

Axl: He's a pop cartoon icon of absolutely how far off the edge you can go, which I don't have any desire to go that far

Axl: I liked the lyrics of the song, you know, I also thought that it was something that people hadn't heard, it was the missing part of the puzzle, I mean almost everything about Charles Manson has been made public, but this was never public on a really big scale, to my knowledge, and just thought that people would be interested in hearing it, but even one of the victim's son, who is getting some of the money, supposedly, was talking to the media about people worshipping Charles Manson, and I was getting a vibe that people were trying to paint a picture that I worship Charles Manson, now it's exactly for me, the opposite.

Slash: It's really weird, coz when the song was done and it was recorded and released there was no attention drawn to it and all the attention that has been given it so far, has come from the media that's been opposing it.

Slash: There was a time when we were planning on pulling it because of that fact that it was, I don't know, the messages were all crossed as far as what we were really doing. I mean basically what we did was a track that had something to do lyrically with the band, you know.

Slash: I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...

Tom Zutaut: The Manson thing was much more problematic than "One in a Million". I could never understand why that song was so important to Axl.
 
 

from
   http://www.gnrinfo.tk/

[Axl11]

Still why did Axl wear Manson t-shirts? Where do you even get a Manson t-shirt?

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

Cdogg,
Good work.  Saved me a lot of time and effort having to go dig up the quotes  [ok]

The Manson shirt that Axl wore on tour in '93 was sold by a company called "Zooport Riot Gear" and they were based in New Port Beach, California.  They sold (sell?) surfing and skateboarding related equipment and clothes.  The shirt itself is a jocular shirt that uses the quote from the film Apocalypse Now "Charlie Dont Surf."  In this instance it can sort of have a double meaning -the meaning from the film -and/or Charlie Manson really doesnt surf -the guy is in jail for life -so make the most of your freedom and enjoy the waves duuuuuuude.  

As for where to find the shirt -I have not seen many around these days, but back in the day Zooport Riot Gear sold them at their store in New Port Beach -not sure if it is still around.  They also distributed them to a lot of "underground/cult" t-shirt and clothing stores.  I saw them a lot here in NYC in the West Village years ago.  People have also recently have had them on eBay for sale -not sure if they are from Zooport Riot Gear, but they are basically the same image/style as Zooport's, and they are listing them as "Marilyn Manson (or sometimes Charles Manson) Axl Rose T-shirt".

[Jizzo]

I always thought that the reason it said charlie dont surf was cause of his fall out with the beach boys

[withoutyoubaby]

I was thinking about "Look at your game girl" the hidden track on the Spaguetti and started to search some info about it.. I found this site:

http://www.charliemanson.com/music.htm

At first I was wondering does Charles Manson sing ? and I found all the info about the Lie album and I even found the song on Kazaa. This is the part about GNR:

[ "The Spaghetti Incident" by Guns N' Roses.  This originally had an unlisted 13th song at the very end which was written by Manson.  Apparently newer copies have removed the Manson song.  There was a big stink over this due to Manson possibly making money off of it (he had written the material before the murders and after he had been released from prison).  Charlie could have made $62,000 for every million copies sold, but in the end, it was decided the money would go to Frykowski's son (who has reportedly passed away since).  Axl Rose has appeared in concert (and the video "Estranged") wearing a Manson t-shirt. ]

I want to ask you... why do you think Axl covered Manson ?

I like the song... but I think they covered only because it was from Manson and maybe they want to start some controversy but when I read that Manson could have recieved money from that recording I thought It would suck... and now that Axl has removed the song from the album he seems to be regret for it.

What do you think ?

 [peace]

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

I actually just finished making a music video for this song.  I simply took a bunch of clips from Steph's HSN appearance last night, mixed in a few clips of Axl playing guitar from some shows in '93, and layed the track for "Look At Your Game, Girl" over it.
Look for it to debut on the new Headbanger's Ball on MTV next week  

[kupirock]

It was Marilyn Manson that turned Axl onto Charles Manson and suggested he listen to his stuff.

 [rofl] yeah right

[lastroots]

I also have that Manson shirt with "Charlie Don't Surf" on the back. I finally understood that joke after I saw Apokalypse Now. For me, I think Manson isn't a too bad musician. Well, his guitar playing isn't too exciting, but his lyrics are quite good, especially on "Lie" and "Way Of The Wolf".
I think there's nothing bad in listening to his music. We also listen to Richard Wagner, who was, in my opinion, the greatest composer ever. But does anybody talk about the fact he was a fascist or that his family was friends with Hitler? No, just because, that are two different things. They were (are) persons you don't want to deal with, but their music is another part of the story.


/lastroots

[Christos AG]

It was Marilyn Manson that turned Axl onto Charles Manson and suggested he listen to his stuff.

The song is absolute shite and the guy is just a fucked up old man.

From nigeldick.com (Director of Welcome To The Jungle Video):

PART FOUR (Of Welcome To The Jungle Preliminary concept 7/10/87)
Axel is in a seedy hotel bedroom with a girl. They are watching a number of TV sets. Once again the screens are filled with violent images. Amongst these images we must include Manson, the Nightstalker and other 'key' figures. I would suggest that this room is built on a set. (To be shot in a studio day 2).


"A word from your sponsor: I guess I didn't know how to spell Axl's name properly - I hadn't met the band when I wrote this! The treatment was basically handed to me by Alan Niven over the phone and I put it in order and typed it out, which is the way Alan and I would work, I guess that's why I typed the phrase 'key' figures the way I did. It's interesting to note Axl's early fascination with Manson even before the release of the first album"

[Jim]

Still why did Axl wear Manson t-shirts? Where do you even get a Manson t-shirt?

Loads of places sell them.

I always thought that the "Charlie Don't Surf" thing was a joke in relation to his connection with the Beach Boys?

If anybody would like to buy the Manson shirt, it can be found here:

http://www.rottencotton.com/index2.htm

Disclaimer: If you are easily offended, or offended period, then do not go to that site.

[Pretty Tied Up]

This brings up apoint that I actually don't like about Axl.  I really can't stand the way he puts out controversial songs like One in a Million and the Manson song and then when he gets heat for them he backtracks and removes the songs from the cds.  It shows a real weakness of character to me.  Either have the balls to release the material the way you want and then stand by it, or don't release it at all in the first place.  Releasing it and then pulling it because you are getting criticized is absolutely weak.

/Pretty

[Jim]

Actually, I think that it shows that Axl dosn't do things just to be controversial.

Also, isn't it mainly the record companies decision wether the song stays on as well?

And, that thing about One in A Million being removed: ha.

Does anybody actually own a copy of Lies that dosn't feature it?

I bought my copy ten or so years after it was released, and funnily enoug it had One in A Million on it...

[lastroots]

Watch ApokaLYPSE Now if you wanna understand the CHARLIE DONT SURF joke.



/lastroots

[Johnnyblood]

First of all, what a great topic. I can't believe this hasn't been discussed more, because it really reveals a lot about Axl's mind.

I think Axl has these great big moments in his mind (where he spends most of his time) then tries to "recreate" them for the world.

Lots of times it all goes wrong. "Look at Your Game" and last year's tour (which Axl himself said would prove all the doubters wrong - I'm sure he believed that when he was sitting at home, protected from the whole world) stand out.

I think Axl is very confident in the comfort of his own imagination, but out in the world he's a bit of a frightened child. I'm not saying that as an insult but an observation.

With the Manson shirt, especially wearing it to court, he probably thought it would make him look really dramatic and interesting and bold and unafraid of the forces against him at that moment. What he didn't realize was how self-centered it made him look.

As far as the song, it's my understanding that he recorded that song without the band's knowing about it. (This contradicts what some of them say in that "In Their Own Words" post, but I'm pretty sure they didn't find out it was on the record until after it was released.)

So it was probably a moment of personal indulgence, and probably wouldn't have stood up the test of scrutiny by the band. And when the shitstorm over the songs hit, only then, I think, was Axl able to understand the moral problem with it and see it in a rational way.

But he never lets himself see the rational side of things because he surrounds himself with people who won't challenge him in any serious way, and so his grand ideas are often doomed to fail in the light of day.  

[Axl11]

I always thought that the reason it said charlie dont surf was cause of his fall out with the beach boys

Same here. Also didn't Axl have more then one Charles Manson shirt? Besides the one with Charlies Don't Surf on it.

[Jim]

That makes three of us who linked the shirt with the Beach Boys  [ok]