Just imagine how good it must feel....

[Dizzy]

People will not come just by listening to one CD.  NOBODY will immediately fill arenas with one good album.  NOBODY.

So you're telling me that gnr will not fill arenas when they go back on tour to support their album?

You say "when", I say "If".  Axl may be the possible exception, since he using the GNR name.  The GNR name will always be attractive.  If Axl were to go it alone, I'd say no.

[younggunner]

You say "when", I say "If".  Axl may be the possible exception, since he using the GNR name.  The GNR name will always be attractive.  If Axl were to go it alone, I'd say no.

Thats fine.If you dont think gnr will ever release new material or tour. Thats your opinion. But thats not what we are discussing here....

well dizzy, have you been paying attetion to this thread? you and booker are telling how gnr couldnt even fill an arena yet you just said "gee golly being axl is using the gnr name he will have no problem"...um if the gnr name was so attractive they would have sold out last tour.
They didnt because its a new lineup and that lineup didnt offer anything new. as a result this band has to prove itself to the haters, the skeptical, and everyone else. If when they do that is when they will fill areneas. The gnr name will no doubt help but it def. wont be the sole reason why new gnr sells out arenas in the future.

but when they do i know you will all say its because of the gnr name.

It doesnt matter if axl used a different name or not. People are still going to hold him responsible for breaking up gnr. so the guy cant win. He has chosen to use the name. he has accepted the responsibilities. So lets see if they step up to the plate.

It all comes down to the material this band puts out. You all bring up the gayest pussiest shit. whuch is fibe because for now thats all there is to talk about and to soem degree i valid. gnr have fucked up in the pr department. But once againg great music changes a lot of things. Many think it wont be great many do. when its released we will see.....

[noizzynofuture]

Hang on a minute, when you're out everywhere promoting an album from your new band, that's gonna affect ticket sales whichever way you look at it. To suggest it only promotes the album and doesn't affect ticket sales is wrong.

Of course it affects sales, but the point is the tour isnt being promoted in those articles, or being promoted much at all - unlike GNRs.  The other poster was acting as if all the articles had tour dates in them, when the reality is that the articles that did discuss touring hardly had specifics.  The tour has only been announced now for what, two and a half weeks?  The fact that theyre touring on the heels of an album and such makes sense, while GNRs, well...didnt.

No doubt VR is going about the tour the intelligent way and I hope they have tremendous success.

Your argument about promotion Booker is just dead wrong.  VR is now on their 3rd single being played on radio, how the hell can you compare that to GNR.  You list the VMA's as being promotion and yes it was promotion ....... Bad promotion.  If axl would have come out and blown people away i would have said you were right, but if anything it probably turned off millions of old GNR fans who thought axl was washed up and playing with a bunch of nobodys.

With 3 singles out, whether you like them or not, it's much better promotion than what GNR ever got so it's unfair to say their out promoting nothing but the album, they're promoting everything VR.  GNR had the name but because of the VMA's everyone knew it wasn't the "old GNR" which basically cancelled any advantage of using the name for promotion.

Ps - i've never heard vr referred to without hearing that the group consists of 3 ex gunners and scott weiland former lead singer of STP.  I've also heard the term "supergroup" thrown about cheaply as well.  So to say VR is not getting a boost from the former groups is not accurate.

[younggunner]

its quite simple...
Vr are in the process of the proper band promotional procedure that any band does when releasing an album.

GNR have yet to do that because they have yet to release an album.

To make it a bigger issue than it really is, is mind boggling, actually commical.

[Falcon]

Hang on a minute, when you're out everywhere promoting an album from your new band, that's gonna affect ticket sales whichever way you look at it. To suggest it only promotes the album and doesn't affect ticket sales is wrong.

Of course it affects sales, but the point is the tour isnt being promoted in those articles, or being promoted much at all - unlike GNRs.  The other poster was acting as if all the articles had tour dates in them, when the reality is that the articles that did discuss touring hardly had specifics.  The tour has only been announced now for what, two and a half weeks?  The fact that theyre touring on the heels of an album and such makes sense, while GNRs, well...didnt.

Your argument about promotion Booker is just dead wrong.  VR is now on their 3rd single being played on radio, how the hell can you compare that to GNR.  

With 3 singles out, whether you like them or not, it's much better promotion than what GNR ever got so it's unfair to say their out promoting nothing but the album, they're promoting everything VR.  

"Slither" and "Set Me Free"..

3 singles?

Enlighten me.

[kockstar99]

the worst set of replies Ive ever read, mind you, the one you replied to were just a drop of piss better  

they werent supposed to be good.. That guy made a fuckin stupid thread with stupid bashes on Axl Roses new band... I was just poroving that I can make just as stupid threads and arguments against VR.... like is said later

You can make an argument for and against both bands.. there is no perfect way to do this..

They are two different animals from the same species...

[Booker Floyd]

VR is now on their 3rd single being played on radio

 

Speaking of "dead wrong"...

how the hell can you compare that to GNR.

Well ignoring the fact that GNR has an entire catalogue of classics and hits that they toured with...The 2002 tour, which is what Ive been referring to the entire time, was promoted in numerous ways, almost all of which Ive already covered and what do again.  TV ads, radio ads and interviews, MTV features...all examples of that tour being promoted.  VRs tour is being promoted on a much smaller scale (it is a much smaller tour).  The articles, interviews, etc., thats all for an album, not a tour.  Of course all of the other promotion for Contraband indirectly boosts ticket sales, but its not actual tour promotion, and thats the point.

 You list the VMA's as being promotion and yes it was promotion

Point proven - thank you.  Anything said afterward about the performance is irrelevant...promotion is promotion.  Axl announced the tour right after the performance, which was surely seen by millions across the nation.  The quality of the performance is completely subjective, just like "Slither" since you brought that up.

they're promoting everything VR.

Youre right - thats indirect promotion, and not what Im talking about.  

GNR had the name but because of the VMA's everyone knew it wasn't the "old GNR" which basically cancelled any advantage of using the name for promotion.

No, the name still sparks interest, regardless of the lineup.  Having that name, especially in a touring situation, will always be an advantadge.  That name alone basically sells tickets.

Ps - i've never heard vr referred to without hearing that the group consists of 3 ex gunners and scott weiland former lead singer of STP.  I've also heard the term "supergroup" thrown about cheaply as well.  So to say VR is not getting a boost from the former groups is not accurate.

 

Youre right...which is why you cant find a quote from me indicating otherwise.  In fact, Im positive that VR is selling most of their tickets simply because of who they are.

[younggunner]

The 2002 tour, which is what Ive been referring to the entire time, was promoted in numerous ways, almost all of which Ive already covered and what do again.  TV ads, radio ads and interviews, MTV features...all examples of that tour being promoted.  

No1 is disputing that it wasnt promtoed. It was advertised. WHat the hell were gnr promoting that would bring peopel to come and see them?

VRs tour is being promoted on a much smaller scale (it is a much smaller tour).

Booker, this isnt rocket science. A band promotes itself and its tour by releasing singles,videos,an album and various interviews etc. Whether they mention exact tour dates in any of those forms of promotion are irrelevant. Peopel who like the single,video,album will then say hey I read they were going on tour lets check them out" thats how you get fannies in the seats.

Gnrs last tour peopel said: Wow, gnr back on tour again, i wonder what there promoting. They do a check. No single,video or album. Other than the old gnr fan what would drive a kid or any music fan who isnt aware of the gnr name to their concert?

The articles, interviews, etc., thats all for an album, not a tour.  Of course all of the other promotion for Contraband indirectly boosts ticket sales, but its not actual tour promotion, and thats the point.

Yes,it is actual tour promotion. We are discussing why gnr only sold half the areana on average. The reason is because they didnt the regular promotion procedure when a band goes out on the road. There were ads run saying they were on tour. NO shit. That not promotion. It just raises awareness. Now what did gnr offer to the public that would get them to come out other than the gnr name? Aboslutely nothing.

When gnr does what vr is doing now that is when you can gauge how popular the band is. Its up to the material they release that will either bring fans or keep away fans.

No, the name still sparks interest, regardless of the lineup.  Having that name, especially in a touring situation, will always be an advantadge.  That name alone basically sells tickets.

I totally agree that the gnr name is definately a big help when they release the new material. Like i said earlier they have the name brand but they still have to prove it with their quality.

And a perfect example of this is the 2002 tour.
The people that went basically went because of the gnr name.
The other half stayed home because their was no material for them to go to the concert.

So your whole thing about "oh its easier for them to sell out because they have the gnr name" is bullshit. New bands are successful based on the material they release. That material keeps old fans, and attracts new fans. Being that the band was mia for 10 yrs and had no new material to release or promote they didnt atrract any new fans and didnt attract many of the old. Thats what happens when a tour is promted properly. Its very simple booker. To make this out to be a big issue is stretching for soemthing that isnt there.

Dont worry 1 day you will have the oppurtunity to tell me if this band is a failure. I will aslo have the same chance to tell you the opposite. Till then we have to wait on the material they release. So till that happens i guess you can continue to cream yourself over their fucked up pr moves.

[noizzynofuture]

"Slither" and "Set Me Free"..

3 singles?

Enlighten me.

How about the cover of Pink Floyds "Money" which was used as a part of the soundtrack for i beleive "The Italian Job" not sure if i have the right movie.  

Maybe I'm wrong calling it a single but it's still a way for this band to release music and gain notice.

Thus one more form of promotion they've used, smartly i might add, but still much more than a group who stayed pretty much in hiding for 10 years.

[Booker Floyd]

How about the cover of Pink Floyds "Money" which was used as a part of the soundtrack for i beleive "The Italian Job" not sure if i have the right movie.  

Maybe I'm wrong calling it a single but it's still a way for this band to release music and gain notice.

Thus one more form of promotion they've used, smartly i might add, but still much more than a group who stayed pretty much in hiding for 10 years.

Wow...youre reaching really heard there.

"Money" wasnt even released, and was only featured in the end credits of the movie for a minute or so.  The full version of the song has only been heard by die-hards.  Thats not to mention that this was all over a year ago.

[noizzynofuture]

How about the cover of Pink Floyds "Money" which was used as a part of the soundtrack for i beleive "The Italian Job" not sure if i have the right movie.  

Maybe I'm wrong calling it a single but it's still a way for this band to release music and gain notice.

Thus one more form of promotion they've used, smartly i might add, but still much more than a group who stayed pretty much in hiding for 10 years.

Wow...youre reaching really heard there.

"Money" wasnt even released, and was only featured in the end credits of the movie for a minute or so.  The full version of the song has only been heard by die-hards.  Thats not to mention that this was all over a year ago.

Money was still put out for promtional purposes and further proves that VR is going heavy on promotion.  

I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with but i like the way VR is handling their buisness and can't wait to hear contraband.  I disagree with you that they are doing this under the radar and that this is all just about the current make up of this band.  I also take offense (and this is ironic cus i'm usually bashing axlites) that you're comparing the promotion of the 2002 tour with the upcoming VR tour and basically turning this into a slash vs axl thing once again.

ps- off subject, booker, what do you think the response would have been had axl walked out with the old gnr and announced an upcoming tour ?

[Booker Floyd]

Money was still put out for promtional purposes and further proves that VR is going heavy on promotion.

It was never put out.  It was included briefly in a movies credits...to bring that into a discussion of VRs tour promotion...I dont see the point.    

I disagree with you that they are doing this under the radar and that this is all just about the current make up of this band.

Please point me to where I said they were doing it under the radar.  

VRs tour has been promoted appropriately.  The only two points Ive made pertaining to it are 1) It hasnt been promoted as much GNRs tour, which I think is obvious and 2) All of the articles on the band are not actual tour promotion, which I also think is obvious.  Do they indirectly influence sales?  Yes, but thats not what Im talking about.  Theres a million things that could influence GNRs ticket sales too.  Im talking strictly promotion for the VR tour, promo that announces the tour, gives dates, etc.

I also take offense (and this is ironic cus i'm usually bashing axlites) that you're comparing the promotion of the 2002 tour with the upcoming VR tour and basically turning this into a slash vs axl thing once again.

Maybe you havent noticed, this thread has been "Slash Vs. Axl" the entire time.  I object to posters who falsely claim that the 2002 tour wasnt promoted and refer to VR articles as "tour promotion" in the same vain as GNRs tour-specific ads, interviews, etc.

ps- off subject, booker, what do you think the response would have been had axl walked out with the old gnr and announced an upcoming tour ?

 

It would probably be great.

[younggunner]

1) It hasnt been promoted as much GNRs tour, which I think is obvious and 2) All of the articles on the band are not actual tour promotion, which I also think is obvious.

You couldnt be more wrong.

I object to posters who falsely claim that the 2002 tour wasnt promoted and refer to VR articles as "tour promotion" in the same vain as GNRs tour-specific ads, interviews, etc.

Can you please stop saying the same stuff that no1 is saying. No1 is sayting that the past gnr tour wansnt promoted. It was. They had a few ads running saying hey folks gnrs out on tour again. Thats it.

NOw lets compare the two once again. since you have failed to repsond to my last post.

GNr: Ads were run saying that gnr was back out on the road again.
Mtv performance

Tour results: failed tour in terms of ticket sales.
Reason: Gnr name only brought back some of its old fans.
New fans:none: why because they didnt have the proper touring promotion that every band uses.
What might that promotion consist of younggunner?
a single, video,album,interviews,more singles and videos,tour and any other marketing strategies.

VR: They are in the process of the proper promotional methods. what might those be?
a single,video,album,additional singles, interviews tour.
Gee golly, who will be going to a vr concert? any1 who likes the material. Not just stp or gnr fans.

what is the difference between the vr tour and the gnr tour? vr are actually out promoting osmething. as a result they will have better ticket sales and will be able to get new fans and keep their old fanbase.

Same will go for gnr when they release their album.

Yes booker we know the 2002 tour was promoted. If you think it was heavily promoted because it was in some newspapers and on commercials, your right it was. But that means dick. when cd comes out then thats when you can gauge gnrs success.

[Booker Floyd]

Can you please stop saying the same stuff that no1 is saying. No1 is sayting that the past gnr tour wansnt promoted.

Not only did you say it in this very thread, but its been one of the most popular excuses since the tours failure nearly two years ago.

They had a few ads running saying hey folks gnrs out on tour again. Thats it.

They had the VMAs, MTV.com features, MTV News features, Axl interviews to a handful of local radio stations, television ads, radio ads, and tons of press in various news outlets.

I hate repeating myself.  

GNr: Ads were run saying that gnr was back out on the road again.
Mtv performance

Tour results: failed tour in terms of ticket sales.
Reason: Gnr name only brought back some of its old fans.
New fans:none: why because they didnt have the proper touring promotion that every band uses.
What might that promotion consist of younggunner?
a single, video,album,interviews,more singles and videos,tour and any other marketing strategies.

Obviously were talking about two different things.  My original point has always been that because of decent promotion, people knew about this tour.  It was promoted well.  Apparently they werent motivated to go...then its no longer about promotion, its about the band.  All of the tickets sold were sold because of Axl and the Guns N' Roses name.  That alone wont sell out an arena tour.  It seems we agree on this - but dont blame it on "no promotion" or "poor promotion".  No album means no album, not "no promotion".

VR: They are in the process of the proper promotional methods. what might those be?
a single,video,album,additional singles, interviews tour.
Gee golly, who will be going to a vr concert? any1 who likes the material. Not just stp or gnr fans.

Well, there hasnt been a video, album, or additional singles yet, so you cant credit them for selling tickets.  And maybe Im mistaken, but I dont think theyre selling 2,000 tickets in 5 minutes to rabid "Slither" fans.  Its because of who they are.

what is the difference between the vr tour and the gnr tour? vr are actually out promoting osmething.

Yeah, an album...an album that nobody has even heard (unless you want to really start reaching and bringing up listening parties or something).  

 

Yes booker we know the 2002 tour was promoted. p

No, "we" dont, because Ive seen the "no promotion" excuse used ad nauseum on here.  

Glad to see Ive finally talked some sense into some of you though.  

[younggunner]

They had the VMAs, MTV.com features, MTV News features, Axl interviews to a handful of local radio stations, television ads, radio ads, and tons of press in various news outlets.

I hate repeating myself.  

Im acknowledging all that. im not denying that so why keep bringing it up.

 My original point has always been that because of decent promotion, people knew about this tour.  It was promoted well.  Apparently they werent motivated to go...then its no longer about promotion, its about the band.  All of the tickets sold were sold because of Axl and the Guns N' Roses name.  That alone wont sell out an arena tour.  It seems we agree on this - but dont blame it on "no promotion" or "poor promotion".  No album means no album, not "no promotion".

NO1 is disputing that people didnt know about the past tour. BUt what im saying is that and it seems you agree, old fans,kids, whoever had no motivation to go other than the gnr name. That goes hand in hand with poor ticket sales.

And the way a new band gians a fan base is by having new material out and marketing that material via singles videos etc. Gnr didnt do that and as a result suffered the consequences. Do you agree with that?

Peopel buying the v tickets as of right now are stp and gnr fans. Later on when they embark on a bigger tour they will benefit because of the promotional tools they are using right now._sinles,videos,album) so when that all happens they will have a wider audeince who will either like or hate the material. and as a result we will see how well they when they do a bigger tour.

I have neevr made excuse for the past gnr tour. i have said all along that it failed and wasnt a success. I have also said it was dumb for the band to do that type of tour. If i were them i would have not toured at all until the new stuff was ready or if they wanted to really get out of the studio i would have done a qucik big city only arenea tour. That would have sold out and it would have been brief.but thats just me.

was the past tour promoted? yes. are there valid reasons why it failed? yes

[Will]

you dont have to enlighten me dipshit..

Whether you agree or not with BF, there's no need to start calling names. It's in the Rules.

Btw, the end of this thread is basically a quoting orgy between younggunner and BF. I think we all got your point and none of you will change his point of view, so this thread becomes pointless.

[Mister Man]

I dont know if this point has been made yet, I dont have time to read all 5 pages.

I think GnR's mistake was booking such large venues for the first time out in 8 years.  From what Ive read they sold an average of around 10,000 tickets per show, That is actually pretty impressive considering how long they were away.

If they would have played 5- 10,000 seaters they would have sold out across the board and in some cities they could have added a second night.

It also would have taken some of the pressure off from the media who loved to report half full arenas.  

I think that as far as ticket sales go the tour was very sucessful, It just didnt look that way.

Axl may have made it through the whole tour, but instead he bit off more than he could chew.  I think that all the negativity just got to him and he said fuck it Im going home.

OUT

[madagas]

The 16 US TOUR shows averaged 8600 per show.

[Mister Man]

Thats an excellent turn out for any band.  they could have packed smaller places and nobody would have thought of it as a failure.

OUT

[madagas]

agree-they fucked up-both Clear Channel and Axl.