Just imagine how good it must feel....

[Booker Floyd]

They filled half the arenas last tour soley on the gnr name.

They filled 3 at most.

That was without any promo,singles video and album.

 

Out of curiosity, what do you consider promotion?

[younggunner]

They filled 3 at most.

what i meant was that on average they filled half of each arena soley on the gnr name.

Out of curiosity, what do you consider promotion?

this is wha i condiser promotion:
basically whjat vr is doing now....but a lil more

so full promotion means....
a press release
magaizine interviews
1st single/video
album
follow up singles and videos
tour supporting the album

thats full promotion
when that happens then thats how i will judge gnr in terms of public reception and fan base.

when gnr eventually decide to put out the album and go through the normal procedures of releasing an album etc then many things will change around here. i guarentee it. if the material is great many of the things peopel hate baout axl and gnr will long be forgotten.

[Booker Floyd]

basically whjat vr is doing now....but a lil more

What VR is doing now is promoting an album...not a tour.  All of that promotion, essentially none of it is for this tour.  And theyre selling 2,000 seats in minutes.  

Youve gone from "promotion" to "full promotion"...give it up.  The 2002 was promoted, and it was promoted as well as any other tour I can think of.  It was promoted way more than VRs.

First Axl announced it on the highly rated VMAs. there was tons of news coverage regarding it, there was radio/TV commercials, MTV did an interview with Buckethead promoting it, which ran both on the channel and the website, there was newspaper/magazine reviews, Axl even did radio interviews for it, as did Dizzy and Tommy for MTV.  And then theres general word of mouth...

There was plenty of promotion, so lets please put that excuse to rest.  

[Mutherfunker]

Hang on a minute, when you're out everywhere promoting an album from your new band, that's gonna affect ticket sales whichever way you look at it. To suggest it only promotes the album and doesn't affect ticket sales is wrong.

As for the 2002 tour, that was promoted plenty.

@#$%Muther

[jarmo]

Booker, you don't think a single on radio, an announced release date for an album and interviews in magazines helppromote a tour?

A tour is only promoted by posters and radio ads?  




/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Hang on a minute, when you're out everywhere promoting an album from your new band, that's gonna affect ticket sales whichever way you look at it. To suggest it only promotes the album and doesn't affect ticket sales is wrong.

Of course it affects sales, but the point is the tour isnt being promoted in those articles, or being promoted much at all - unlike GNRs.  The other poster was acting as if all the articles had tour dates in them, when the reality is that the articles that did discuss touring hardly had specifics.  The tour has only been announced now for what, two and a half weeks?  The fact that theyre touring on the heels of an album and such makes sense, while GNRs, well...didnt.

[Booker Floyd]

Booker, you don't think a single on radio, an announced release date for an album and interviews in magazines helppromote a tour?

No, they dont.  You seem to be mixing up two distinctly different concepts: motivation to go to a concert, and actual awareness and familiarity with a tour.  Hearing a song that I like on the radio, seeing a release date for an album or reading an interview might make me want to go to a show, but I wont actually go until I see some kind of promotion on the specifics of the tour itself.  And dont mistake me, Im not acting as if VR has gotten no promotion, because obviously a lot of people are aware of the tour.  But theres no "Come see Velvet Revolver live!" ads on TV or radio, at least I havent heard/seen any. Ive only seen their tour promoted through their websites and news outlets online...but thats really all that is need, which is why its even more laughable when people use the "no promotion" cop-out for the 2002 tour.  Their confusing a bad idea (touring arenas after 9 years of silence for no reason other than to tour) for no promotion - two entirely different concepts.  

But bringing up the album and what not is only speculating on why people are going, and no different than somebody bringing the Guns N' Roses name, and their history and catalogue, which is why people go to their shows.  Its defintely a factor in both cases, and I never meant to state otherwise, only to show correct the implication that this tour VR is on was actually being promoted in all of these articles when it wasnt.

[loretian]

No, they dont.  You seem to be mixing up two distinctly different concepts: motivation to go to a concert, and actual awareness and familiarity with a tour.  Hearing a song that I like on the radio, seeing a release date for an album or reading an interview might make me want to go to a show, but I wont actually go until I see some kind of promotion on the specifics of the tour itself.

I think you just said it right there.  Hearing a new song the radio is gonna trigger interested, especially if the song is good.

The 2002 tour aside, if there's new music out there, which gets fan and "the kids" excited, then any tour the band would embark on is going to do a lot better.

[Butch Français]

Just imagine how good it must feel for Slash and Duff, and even Matt, to be sticking VR so far up Axl's  ass.

is that what you call one show? They have done one fucking show... They have a mini tour of bars and small clubs planned ...Axl SOLD OUT MSG.. They arent sticking anything up any asses except maybe each others dicks...

They are probably going to be very successful,

of course they will....and Axl will too..

and Axl gave a shit less about them.

Id say Axl gave a shit about them...

Now they are, finally, about to make him feel and look like complete and utter SHIT.

how is that?? by selling out some bar in the midwest?? or by trying to keep thier new fucking singer from getting strung out every week and out of fucking jail??

Not that the comeback tour and still no CD doesn't make Axl look like shit already,

how do you figure??

especially with Buckethead leaving. All the pieces have fallen for Axl, and its so fucking sad!

Thats Axl Roses band... not Brian Carroll's band..  All he has to do is pick 18 or so of his new songs and release an album and his pieces are all back in place... Thats a fact jack and you know it...

However, good for Slash, Duff and Matt to be out and enjoying their GnR fame by putting together a new band.

sure playing some AFD songs, some STP songs and some songs that will sound just like the snakepit disk shit....Good for them!!!!

Axl is going to be SOOO green with envy,

of what?? playing some midwest bars or playing in St louis again? or envious of thier herion addict singer? That Slither song??

but hey, he's had his chances, and of course still does.

he always will have his chances... He is W AXL ROSE!!! he has UNLIMITED chances... CARTE BLANCHE... He is AXL ROSE and he will always be the lead singer for GUNS N ROSES.. an established ORIGINIZATION... and proven seller.. no matter who the players are....

But doesn anyone really envision him getting anything together again?

does anyone really envision him going away???

It took him X number of years just  to have a comeback tour fail.

his "failed" tour will out sell and out gross this mini tour shit that VR have put together...  They would be lucky to be as big as audioslave or maybe if they are lucky they can get some exposure on an Ozzfest or Lollopoloza tour..  AXL can play to 10,000 people in Europe, Asia, S. America....  I hope VR have a good time in the Midwestern bars..

I think its going to kill Axl to have to get the energy to get this rolling again.

it hasnt yet.. and to quote someone "It took alot less pressure to kill Jim Morrison"

Probably, and sadly, the only way we see new Axl/GnR material is if Axl dies.

your a jackass... then you would never see it...  you will prob see something by the end of the year... stop crying like a little bitch....

I read someone say this here awhile ago, and although horrible to say, and I hope Axl lives to 99, its probably true.

what the fuck are you talking??  

By the way, someone asked me the origins of my name here. The W and Axl are obvious, the 23 is an ode to Jordan!!!

thats just great.....

the worst set of replies Ive ever read, mind you, the one you replied to were just a drop of piss better  

[starchild_666]

Velvet Revolver vs Axl's new GNR
Round One - winner... VR!
not so sure about rest of the fight though!  

[jarmo]

No, they dont.  You seem to be mixing up two distinctly different concepts: motivation to go to a concert, and actual awareness and familiarity with a tour.

I am?

If you're not aware of the show, how can you be motivated to go?

I just think they go hand in hand. A single makes people aware of the band. Maybe even to the point where they go "hey, this sounds good. I hope they tour soon". Then they check out the website and see tour dates or maybe even hear a DJ mention it. All thanks to the single.

Then at the show maybe they like more songs and go out to buy the album.

You can sell tickets without radioplay, but I think it gets easier to sell tickets when you have a "hit".


In GN'R's case, people saw the ads and went because they liked the old stuff. There was no hype about a new super group, a video premiere or a new single.

Hearing a song that I like on the radio, seeing a release date for an album or reading an interview might make me want to go to a show, but I wont actually go until I see some kind of promotion on the specifics of the tour itself.  

You need to see an ad to go to a show?

Reading about a show on the website isn't enough?  


/jarmo

[younggunner]

What VR is doing now is promoting an album...not a tour.  All of that promotion, essentially none of it is for this tour.  And theyre selling 2,000 seats in minutes.  Youve gone from "promotion" to "full promotion"...give it up.  The 2002 was promoted, and it was promoted as well as any other tour I can think of.  It was promoted way more than VRs.

Youve got to be kidding. First off when you asked me what I consider "proper promotion" is, I said it in regards to an album coming out. All of that album/singles promotion creates fans and as a result when a tour is announced people are more aware of it. hence ticket sales.

Why dont you give it up and realize that although they advertising, the 2002 tour it didnt have the proper promotion. Meaning they had no new material to attract new fans.

Why would a music fan who does not know anything about gnr go and see them if they dont have a single/video and album out? A single/video/album magazines etc create a fan base. If the fans dig the stuf they go to see the band on tour. its as simple as that.

Vr tour is being more promoted because it has a single, a video and an album coming out. They have done interviews introducing themselves to the general public. It goes hand in hand. And almost every article states that they will be going on tour to support the new material.

Why do you try to reach for stuff that just isnt there?

Just because gnrs tour had a dam commercial on tv doesnt mean it was properly promoted. It was advertised. Big deal. Im not making excuses for poor ticket sales. But theres a reason for the poor ticket sales:
no single, no video,no album no magazine stuff.
plus gnr came out of the woodwork and announced a tour.

The way vr is doing things now is how you promote an album and tour and band. Every band does it why is it different for gnr now?

First Axl announced it on the highly rated VMAs. there was tons of news coverage regarding it, there was radio/TV commercials, MTV did an interview with Buckethead promoting it, which ran both on the channel and the website, there was newspaper/magazine reviews, Axl even did radio interviews for it, as did Dizzy and Tommy for MTV.  And then theres general word of mouth...

There was plenty of promotion, so lets please put that excuse to rest.  

Once again. Im not saying it wasnt promoted. But it wasnt promoted to the extent that is proper. How the hell are they going to get peopel interested in seeing them play if there is no material to hear?

The other poster was acting as if all the articles had tour dates in them, when the reality is that the articles that did discuss touring hardly had specifics.  The tour has only been announced now for what, two and a half weeks?  The fact that theyre touring on the heels of an album and such makes sense, while GNRs, well...didnt.

They didnt have tour dates in them because tour dates werent confirmed. Every article I have read on vr and their release talks about them going on tour. Just because they dont have the list of dates printed in th article doesnt mean they arent promoting the tour. Of course they are. If some1 is interested they go look it up its not that hard.

ANd i totally agree..gnrs tour didnt make sense. thats why it failed. You answered your own dam question. They went on tour to get out of the studio and re introduce the gnr name and new band. If they were gonna tour they should have kept it to a small big city tour. real quick. instead they embarked on a long pointless tour with no new material and no promotion.

so yes, i agree it didnt make sense. and thats hwy it failed. and u answered your own thing again when you say vr has an album so now they are going on tour.

motivation to go to a concert, and actual awareness and familiarity with a tour.  Hearing a song that I like on the radio, seeing a release date for an album or reading an interview might make me want to go to a show, but I wont actually go until I see some kind of promotion on the specifics of the tour itself

bro your lame. holy shit. If I hear a song on the radio from a band and I like it, then i check out there album and i liek it. what does that make me do? it makes me go and see if they are touring and when.

I  wont just do nothing after I hear the album and let the tour dates come to me. plus its kind of a practice that bands go on tour when an album comes out. stop fukin stretching for things dude.

but thats really all that is need, which is why its even more laughable when people use the "no promotion" cop-out for the 2002 tour.  Their confusing a bad idea (touring arenas after 9 years of silence for no reason other than to tour) for no promotion - two entirely different concepts.  

Its not a cop out its a fact. You get more ticket sales when you have new material out. no1 is going to see a band if they dont have a single video and album out. especially a new band.

just because a commercial aired on a few channels doesnt mean it was heavily promoted. that doesnt mean peopel wanna go see gnr because a fukin commercial was aired. it was an ad. that was the only type of promotion the band had to offer to music fans. an announcement that they were on tour thats it. the consumer says, ok what are you supporting. check to see if there is any new material out from the band. they dont have it hence no new fans are going to see gnr. its not that hard dude.

if it makes you happy to think that no1 cares about gnr because of last tour and the poor sales. then you an idiot. ill bet you anything that when they have the proper promotion_single,video,album} that there tour sales will greatly improve. and so will there fan base.

But bringing up the album and what not is only speculating on why people are going, and no different than somebody bringing the Guns N' Roses name, and their history and catalogue, which is why people go to their shows.  Its defintely a factor in both cases, and I never meant to state otherwise, only to show correct the implication that this tour VR is on was actually being promoted in all of these articles when it wasnt.

Why would a fan who knows nothing baout gnr go to the last tour?why would a  15 yr old kid say to his friends, yo lets go see gnr because i heard tehy still dont have an album out yet. What would a person who knows nothing about gnr relate to and go to a tour for?

only teh peopel who have follwoed gnr and miss the old material went to the last tour thats fukin it. ANd maybe some peopel who loved the mtv performance. thats it.

now in vrs case...a kid might say to his freind i really dig that song slither and the video. when the albumn comes out and its good lets go check them out on tour.
thats  how it goes. naturally gnr fans and stp fans are gonna go but in terms of peopel who vr/gnr are fresh and knw too the promotion aspect is what its all about...

thats the problem. you all think gnr is only it in for the old gnr fans. your wrong. its a whole new genreation to market to. The new band will market towards the peopel who never liked the old, and the kids. and whatever old fans want to liek them come along, fine. the gnr name is very helpful to this new band but in order for them to have new success they have to appeal to other audiences as well. not just the old gnr fan. and by getting peopels attention you have to do proper promotion and marketing:
a single, video
album
tour
additional single
interviews
tv etc
that is hwo a band attracts new fans. you can deny that all you want but its not only facts but common sense.

[younggunner]

Velvet Revolver vs Axl's new GNR
Round One - winner... VR!
not so sure about rest of the fight though!

all vr has over gnr is good publicity. they are good in the pr department. they say the right things and are organized. so they can have all those brownie points....

all i care about is the music. and so far vr have not delivered on that front., they have given us average material. its boring. nothing exciting. dont get me wrong it rocks but then its just old.

the songs gnr have given us are still exciting and awesome. i listen to it everyday foir years now. that doesnt mean the rest of the material will be better. they still have to step up to the plate and deliver a masterpiece album. but i have no doubt they will.



btw jarmos last post basically sums up my post...good stuff jarmo.

[matt88]

Jesus christ people u've been bitching at each other for like 2 pages now i think, ease up guys we'll c what happens when VR releases their album

[Booker Floyd]

You need to see an ad to go to a show?

Reading about a show on the website isn't enough?  

I didnt say ads, I said promotion.  A website is promotion.  A single in some cases will entice people to find out about a tour, sure, but that wasnt my point.  The point was that the actual VR tour is not recieving anywhere near the level of promo that the GNR one got.  That is all.

In GN'R's case, people saw the ads and went because they liked the old stuff. There was no hype about a new super group, a video premiere or a new single.

Have you forgotten about a nearly 10-minute closing performance on one of the years biggest award broadcasts (in which Axl himself announced a tour)?  And the new GNR had their fair share of hype, too.  

So VR is selling tickets with the hep of a video, huh?  

Im not saying it wasnt promoted

That was without any promo

How the hell are they going to get peopel interested in seeing them play if there is no material to hear?

Well, the Guns N' Roses name is a good start.  And so is playing all of GNRs old material.  Thats like asking "How the hell are they going to get people interested in paying money for no new material?" and watching Greatest Hits debut at #3.  But that is not a promotion issue, thats just poor planning.  The tour shouldnt have happened, at least not in arenas, but again - thats not a promotion matter so you can stop blaming it on "no promotion".  Promotion is raising awareness for something, in this case a tour.  You can say people dont want to go, but dont say they didnt know about it.  Two different concepts.  

[jarmo]

Have you forgotten about a nearly 10-minute closing performance on one of the years biggest award broadcasts (in which Axl himself announced a tour)?  And the new GNR had their fair share of hype, too.

Yeah, I'm sure people remembered that and were just waiting for the tour to be announced.  
 

So VR is selling tickets with the hep of a video, huh?  

I said "video premiere". In case you've missed it, they've been talking about the video for over a month..... It's been mentioned quite a few times on various news sites.

The tour must've been quite wellknown since scalpers bought so many of the tickets and are now selling them on Ebay.  



/jarmo

[younggunner]

Well, the Guns N' Roses name is a good start.  And so is playing all of GNRs old material.  Thats like asking "How the hell are they going to get people interested in paying money for no new material?" and watching Greatest Hits debut at #3.  But that is not a promotion issue, thats just poor planning.  The tour shouldnt have happened, at least not in arenas, but again - thats not a promotion matter so you can stop blaming it on "no promotion".  Promotion is raising awareness for something, in this case a tour.  You can say people dont want to go, but dont say they didnt know about it.  Two different concepts.  

Like i said, the gnr name will definaltly help. It will attract the old fans again. But the new band still has to have their own material to have success.

I agree and disagree with your second point. They could have done a quick major city only arena tour. That would have been better and more proficient. For the purposes of just getting out of the studio and no releasing any new material they didnt need to embark on a reg. tour.

And once agian. People didnt go because new gnr had nothing new to offfer. Maybe that will help you understand. Yea, most peopel new about it because of ads that ran on various channels. All the ads said was gnr back on tour. Now, in case you havnt understood it in my last post...ill try to help you again, because it seems liek your slow...A band gains new fans or increases their fan base when they release new material. Particulary a new band, as is gnr. So in order for them to fill areneas they need new material and new fans. The way bands do that i sby: releasing a single and video, releasing the album, then tour and do other various promo things such as interviews etc. Thats how a band raises awareness of their tour and band.

The kid in idaho who doesnt know about gnr or isnt into the old stuff wont go to a gnr concert because they didnt offer anything to him. Now if the band release what i said above and he liked it perhaps he would buy a ticket. Thats how it works booker. what is so hard to understand i have no clue.

[Booker Floyd]

I said "video premiere". In case you've missed it, they've been talking about the video for over a month..... It's been mentioned quite a few times on various news sites.

So what?  As of yet, no video has been played.  These tickets have been sold a good week-and-a-half/two weeks before any video premiere.  I doubt talk of a video is making much of an impact, other than getting people to actually tune in to the premiere.  Once the video is played, then an impact will be made.

The tour must've been quite wellknown since scalpers bought so many of the tickets and are now selling them on Ebay.  

I agree...

Ill say it again - Im not implying that the tour is being underpromoted.  Its being promoted just fine through the official website and news outlets.  You wont see any excuses coming from over here about lack of promotion, especially with the album.  But Im making it clear that the GNR tour was promoted better, and that any excuses pertaining to "no promotion" are bullshit.

One thing I missed from a previous post...

First off when you asked me what I consider "proper promotion" is, I said it in regards to an album coming out. All of that album/singles promotion creates fans and as a result when a tour is announced people are more aware of it. hence ticket sales.

What VR has in "newness" (new single, album), Axls GNR more than makes up for in "oldness".  Hes touring with a proven brand name with all of the hits and classics to go with it.  Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones...all these guys sell out stadiums.  Do you see their new single?  And even if you want to bring up a 3 year-old single off of The Rising or whatever, do you think that Bruce is selling out stadiums off of that?  So a new single certainly isnt need to sell tickets, although I agree that GNR could use one.

[Booker Floyd]

Particulary a new band, as is gnr.

Lets not carried away with the underdog complex, the band is still called "Guns N' Roses," "new" or not.

So in order for them to fill areneas they need new material and new fans. The way bands do that i sby: releasing a single and video, releasing the album, then tour and do other various promo things such as interviews etc. Thats how a band raises awareness of their tour and band.

Really?  Then perhaps you can tell me about the Stones new video?  Or Bon Jovis?

The kid in idaho who doesnt know about gnr or isnt into the old stuff wont go to a gnr concert because they didnt offer anything to him. Now if the band release what i said above and he liked it perhaps he would buy a ticket. Thats how it works booker. what is so hard to understand i have no clue.

Well at least you seem to concede that its not about promotion, since nothing youve said has anything to do with it.  

When it comes to the all-important clueless Idaho teenager demographic, then I guess your assessment is right-on...but thats not what Ive been talking about.

[younggunner]

What VR has in "newness" (new single, album), Axls GNR more than makes up for in "oldness".  Hes touring with a proven brand name with all of the hits and classics to go with it.  Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones...all these guys sell out stadiums.  Do you see their new single?  And even if you want to bring up a 3 year-old single off of The Rising or whatever, do you think that Bruce is selling out stadiums off of that?  So a new single certainly isnt need to sell tickets, although I agree that GNR could use one.

First off Gnrs future endevors will not focus on what the old band did. They are a new band. They are using the name because of Axl thinks gnr hasnt eneded yet. It has nothing to do with getting by on old material.

The bands you brought up arent new bands. Gnr is a new band. The public isnt aware or doesnt know much about the lineup changes. GNr have been mia for 10 yrs. Plus they are a new band. Let me see bon jovi leave the scene for 10 yrs and only come back with the singer and a new lineup. And his goal is not to bring back the past but to promote a new chapter of that band. liek axl is doing. Let me see how well the bon jovi name sells then.

This isnt about previous catalogues. Its about the new lineup and band. As a result they have to rebuild their fan base. Theres a big difference.

Lets not carried away with the underdog complex, the band is still called "Guns N' Roses," "new" or not.

indeed it is. But its still a new band that will market towards new fans. all kinds of fans. as a result it has to start over like a new band. the only difference is they have the luxury of keeping the brand name. They still have to prove their worth with their own material. And thats what im talking about.

Booker, last tour didnt do well because theri was nothing new to promote. Its as simple as that. Stop tyring to make it something else when its really not. When gnr release a single,album and then tour and the album sales or ticket sales are shit, then what your trying to imply would be right...no1 cares, gnrs sux,yippy ki yay.....whatver...but till then gnr have not failed nor have they had any success.....the material they release and the publics reaction to that will determine whos the winner and whos the loser.