where are the haters?

[kockstar99]

Who fucking gives a shit about the Philly concert anymore... it was over a year ago.. get over it people..  if he hasn't written you a letter explaining it then he prob will not... show was cancelled... end of story...

[Rupean]

I'm so happy, reading Axl blamming Bucket and Finck saying nothing but that he's sorry made my day  
Now that we got it all figured out we can easely wait more 4 or 5 years without hearing nothing from them, these time wasted statements are all we could wish for  

I was so glad hearing Axl blamming Bucket. I had a slight deja vu, for a moment it seemed like we were back when Axl blammed Izzy, Slash, Duff, Matt, Doug,...   All Axl does is blame others. Poor guy, he's got such a bad luck with the friends he choses, it's always their fault, poor Axl  

[TyRod Tulip]

'Hater' is way too strong of a term to use.  All of us that have doubted Axl, love what he and the old members provided us in the late 80's/early 90's.  Keep in mind that is the reason that we are here.  Like someone else said, the term 'doubter' would be more appropriate.

I have very strong doubts that GNR is close to releasing the album.  Axl said in his apology letter (a letter by the way that was obviously massaged by his management people and cannot be totally credited to Axl himself), that they hope to announce a release date within the next few (meaning 3) months.  I would wagger with anyone on this board that by June 30, 2005 (a little over 3 months from the date of his latter) that we don't have a release date.  This doesn't mean that I 'hate' Axl or GNR.  It just means that I doubt Axl's ability to deliver.  Anyone with the ability to reason would doubt him.

Make no mistake about it. I am a huge GNR fan.  I want them to succeed in the worst way.  I would be able to shutup all my close friends that think that Axl/GNR are a joke.  I'd love that.  But over the years I have become jaded about this whole thing.  I am not a huge fan of the current band (granted I like it alot better today than I did 2 weeks ago when BH was still in it), and I just have a feeling that Axl misses Izzy in the worst way in terms of the song structuring and lyrics writing.  I like the members of VR, as a group, much better than the members of GNR.  But ultimately it is the expectation that Axl could potentially deliver an epic masterpiece that keeps us coming back.

I think the album will eventually surface.  No one invests $13 million into a product for nothing.  It will be released.  I am just upset that it hasn't been released before now.

BTW, the original post is completely idiotic.  How do you post n "I-told-you-so" message when we are no better off now than we were 3 weeks ago.  Smarten up dude.

-TyRod-  

[SLCPUNK]

'Hater' is way too strong of a term to use.  All of us that have doubted Axl, love what he and the old members provided us in the late 80's/early 90's.  Keep in mind that is the reason that we are here.  Like someone else said, the term 'doubter' would be more appropriate.

I have very strong doubts that GNR is close to releasing the album.  Axl said in his apology letter (a letter by the way that was obviously massaged by his management people and cannot be totally credited to Axl himself), that they hope to announce a release date within the next few (meaning 3) months.  I would wagger with anyone on this board that by June 30, 2005 (a little over 3 months from the date of his latter) that we don't have a release date.  This doesn't mean that I 'hate' Axl or GNR.  It just means that I doubt Axl's ability to deliver.  Anyone with the ability to reason would doubt him.

Make no mistake about it. I am a huge GNR fan.  I want them to succeed in the worst way.  I would be able to shutup all my close friends that think that Axl/GNR are a joke.  I'd love that.  But over the years I have become jaded about this whole thing.  I am not a huge fan of the current band (granted I like it alot better today than I did 2 weeks ago when BH was still in it), and I just have a feeling that Axl misses Izzy in the worst way in terms of the song structuring and lyrics writing.  I like the members of VR, as a group, much better than the members of GNR.  But ultimately it is the expectation that Axl could potentially deliver an epic masterpiece that keeps us coming back.

I think the album will eventually surface.  No one invests $13 million into a product for nothing.  It will be released.  I am just upset that it hasn't been released before now.

BTW, the original post is completely idiotic.  How do you post n "I-told-you-so" message when we are no better off now than we were 3 weeks ago.  Smarten up dude.

-TyRod-  

Great post.

[In a coma]

Why would you have the line about Kurt Cobain at the bottom of your post?

[Dizzy]

I would wagger with anyone on this board that by June 30, 2005 (a little over 3 months from the date of his latter)

You mean 2004, right?    But you could wager that by the date you cited we won't have a release date.  

[TyRod Tulip]

I would wagger with anyone on this board that by June 30, 2005 (a little over 3 months from the date of his latter)

You mean 2004, right?    But you could wager that by the date you cited we won't have a release date.  

Hahahaha...yea sorry.  I did mean 2004, but i'll stick to my typo and take any one that wants to wager on June 30, 2005 as well.  :-p

Problem with wagering online is that nobody pays up.  I had a $20 bet with a posted by the name of vvv that the album would not be out before 01/01/04.  That post split without paying and hasn't been heard from since.  Funny thing is that person was so fucking self righteous about the war (a fucking liberal) and when it came time to pay up, he/she split. Hahaha.  No way a conservative would do that.  

-TyRod-

[younggunner]

Shows cancelled, no real reason why (i.e. no reason given that they cant perform without Buckethead), no release date, no word about Philly, more blaming...etc.

Actually he says why they cant perform at rio. Just because you think 3 guitarists arent necessary for this band doesnt mean the band thinks the same thing. If slash quit back in the day, why would the old lineup play a single rio date without their pivotal guitarist? They wouldnt.
Where does he blame anyone in that press release. He blames himself if anything. All he said was that due to buckets departure the band cant perform at rio. He described the releationship of buckethead to the band over the past year or so. He also said that it was his fault for given bucket too much freedom. Where does he blame anyone?
And who cares about philly. Its over. That tour is over.

The common misconception that the more overzealous Axl fans have about the so-called "haters" (who in most cases are simply fans who are critical of Axls bullshit) is that they dont want to see Axl fail.  They want to see him succeed and put out the damn album already.  But theyre so used to seeing him fail that they no longer have any illusions about it...no denial.  

Are you kidding? Aside from the failed tour where has Axl failed? Where is the comeback album taht the band has been working on been released and it was rejected by the music world? Where is it I would liek to hear it?

Working on the album for 5 years, for me atleast, is not failure. This goes back to our argument on the other thread.
Axl and gnr will have failed{in my eyes} when they release their material and it fails. That is failure. GNR is a musical band. Hence they will be judged on their music.

Just because you have a problem with GNRs timetable on making and releasing an album doesnt mean its failure. Thats impatience and not being able to understand the situation.

That is the problem I have with people like you. You all are frustrated that the album isnt out yet. Your all upset that there has been no communication. Your all upset because its a new band.
Many of you jump on this band whenevr you can. And thats fine. They have done some stupid things. But what have they failed.
They have failed to communicate
They have failed to complete a tour that would have nothing to do with the success or failur of the new material and the new band
Thats it.

The day they release the new material is when they will have a chance to either succeede or fail. We are here because of the music. And they havnt failed or suceeded in that department yet.

Just because I understand the plans of the band and the whole gnr situation since the band breakup doesnt mean im an axl loyalist. Im a fan.

Who cares if he doesnt show up to concerts. WHo cares. WHo the fuck cares if this band doesnt do things properly.ITS ROCK N ROLL PEOPLE. show me the rule book. there is none. All i care about is the music. All that other stuff comes with the territory with gnr. I choose to remain a fan. If i couldnt handle axls "offensive" behavior i wouldnt be here. I wouldnt spend my time analyzing and criticizing his goals and plans and the people who are able to deal with what comes with supporting this band.

If I ddint agree with how gnr goes about their business i wouldnt be on a message board calling people axl loyalists. They are people who understand the situation. You arent one of them.

[Dizzy]

I had a $20 bet with a poster by the name of vvv that the album would not be out before 01/01/04.  That poster split without paying and hasn't been heard from since.  Funny thing is that person was so fucking self righteous about the war (a fucking liberal)

Oh yeah, I had heated debates with vvv on the war issue.  He also defended the idiotic protesters and said the police should've just let hundreds of them lie in the middle of bridges and impede the traffic flow and everybody's daily lives.  

[providman]

Shows cancelled, no real reason why (i.e. no reason given that they cant perform without Buckethead), no release date, no word about Philly, more blaming...etc.

Actually he says why they cant perform at rio. Just because you think 3 guitarists arent necessary for this band doesnt mean the band thinks the same thing. If slash quit back in the day, why would the old lineup play a single rio date without their pivotal guitarist? They wouldnt.
Where does he blame anyone in that press release. He blames himself if anything. All he said was that due to buckets departure the band cant perform at rio. He described the releationship of buckethead to the band over the past year or so. He also said that it was his fault for given bucket too much freedom. Where does he blame anyone?
And who cares about philly. Its over. That tour is over.

The common misconception that the more overzealous Axl fans have about the so-called "haters" (who in most cases are simply fans who are critical of Axls bullshit) is that they dont want to see Axl fail.  They want to see him succeed and put out the damn album already.  But theyre so used to seeing him fail that they no longer have any illusions about it...no denial.  

Are you kidding? Aside from the failed tour where has Axl failed? Where is the comeback album taht the band has been working on been released and it was rejected by the music world? Where is it I would liek to hear it?

Working on the album for 5 years, for me atleast, is not failure. This goes back to our argument on the other thread.
Axl and gnr will have failed{in my eyes} when they release their material and it fails. That is failure. GNR is a musical band. Hence they will be judged on their music.

Just because you have a problem with GNRs timetable on making and releasing an album doesnt mean its failure. Thats impatience and not being able to understand the situation.

That is the problem I have with people like you. You all are frustrated that the album isnt out yet. Your all upset that there has been no communication. Your all upset because its a new band.
Many of you jump on this band whenevr you can. And thats fine. They have done some stupid things. But what have they failed.
They have failed to communicate
They have failed to complete a tour that would have nothing to do with the success or failur of the new material and the new band
Thats it.

The day they release the new material is when they will have a chance to either succeede or fail. We are here because of the music. And they havnt failed or suceeded in that department yet.

Just because I understand the plans of the band and the whole gnr situation since the band breakup doesnt mean im an axl loyalist. Im a fan.

Who cares if he doesnt show up to concerts. WHo cares. WHo the fuck cares if this band doesnt do things properly.ITS ROCK N ROLL PEOPLE. show me the rule book. there is none. All i care about is the music. All that other stuff comes with the territory with gnr. I choose to remain a fan. If i couldnt handle axls "offensive" behavior i wouldnt be here. I wouldnt spend my time analyzing and criticizing his goals and plans and the people who are able to deal with what comes with supporting this band.

If I ddint agree with how gnr goes about their business i wouldnt be on a message board calling people axl loyalists. They are people who understand the situation. You arent one of them.

So many words, so little sense.

Two words to describe Axl & Fincks "statements".

DAMAGE CONTROL.

Nothing more, nothing else.

[Dizzy]

Where does he blame anyone in that press release. .

The way Axl vented steam at Buckethead can easily and rightfully be construed as "blaming" him.

Calling him erratic and transient and unreliable, stating that Buckethead's ways made it difficult to tour and record are more than subtle insinuations that he is to blame.

Axl saying that he gave Buckethead "too much freedom" is not accepting any blame.  It's a backhanded way of blaming Buckethead.  It's kind of like saying to your ex wife, "it's not your fault we divorced.  It's my fault for being stupid enough to love a person like you to begin with."

Aside from the failed tour where has Axl failed?

He's failed to deliver on his repeated promises to deliver an album, even those when he cited general dates.

In June.  God willing, we will release it in June. -- January 2001

Sometime in the next year. -- December 2002

Who cares if he doesnt show up to concerts.

Ummm, maybe the people who attend the concerts?  

If I ddint agree with how gnr goes about their business i wouldnt be on a message board calling people axl loyalists. They are people who understand the situation. You arent one of them.

And I could easily say you're not one of them either.  That's a matter of perspective.  As is your implied advice that anyone who doesn't agree with Axl's methods shouldn't be posting here.

I'm a fan because of the original GNR and the music they gave me, and I'll always be here for that reason, no matter what Axl is doing.

[younggunner]

The way Axl vented steam at Buckethead can easily and rightfully be construed as "blaming" him.

Calling him erratic and transient and unreliable, stating that Buckethead's ways made it difficult to tour and record are more than subtle insinuations that he is to blame.

He was describing how buckethead was over recent time. And being he was acting the way he was, gnr werent abole to do whatver they were supposed to do. That is not blaming.

He's failed to deliver on his repeated promises to deliver an album, even those when he cited general dates.

Just like you have failed to comprehend what i said. I am not saying they have failed in their communications and the way they go about this whole process. I said that the most important thing, the music, hasnt failed yet. or succeded.

Ummm, maybe the people who attend the concerts?  

Yes but this is nothing new with axl. As a result, anyone going to a show knows that there is a slight chance that he might not show up or more than likely come on late. Thats the choice you make. Is he right in doing that? Nope. But theres nothing you can do other than, like i just said, not go to the show.

As is your implied advice that anyone who doesn't agree with Axl's methods shouldn't be posting here.

No, i said people shouldnt tell someone their a gnr loyalist. Again, just because you have issues with the band{which is totally fine} doesnt mean people who dont should be coined labelists or fanatics or whatver.

I say you have an agenda you say your objective. It works for everyone.

I'm a fan because of the original GNR and the music they gave me, and I'll always be here for that reason, no matter what Axl is doing.

Even though those members have moved on and formed another band and have nothing to do with gnr, thats fine. I could care less. BUt Im here because of axl and the new era of gnr.

So when people like you are always picking on what im here for, and I NEVER pick on what your here for, its gets annoying after awhile. And kinda old. Then it tends to make me think those types of people are haters and have an agenda, but what is even more sad is that, they might not have anything else better to do.

[Dizzy]

He was describing how buckethead was over recent time. And being he was acting the way he was, gnr werent abole to do whatver they were supposed to do. That is not blaming.

Did you read what you just wrote?  You said that because Buckethead was acting the way he was, the band was not able to do what they were supposed to do.  THAT IS BLAMING BUCKETHEAD!

[estranged.1098]

He was describing how buckethead was over recent time. And being he was acting the way he was, gnr werent abole to do whatver they were supposed to do. That is not blaming.

Did you read what you just wrote?  You said that because Buckethead was acting the way he was, the band was not able to do what they were supposed to do.  THAT IS BLAMING BUCKETHEAD!

Excuse me, but what did you expect? BH left the band two months before Lisboa. That's the reason they can't play there. If stating that is blaming BH then fine, he's blaming BH. I don't get why everyone makes a big deal out of it.

[insupportofaxl]

Okay, everyone on here knows I support Mr. Rose.

I have a suggestion................


Instead of focusing on "who is to blame" or "who hates Axl and BH".............why don't we all just use the current press release as a means to start 'fresh'.

I do believe in GNR and I do think we'll see the light of day........when is TBD.  

But these posts about blaming BH, Axl, etc.......are getting quite old.  

No one will ever know what the real deal is unless you are a fly on the wall when BH and Axl are 'negotiating'.

Whatever happens is for a reason.  If BH isn't meant to be in GNR.......so be it.  Axl won't fall apart.......if anything.....it'll motivate him to work more because in that radio interview he did in Nov. 2002, he said that this band was put together very carefully and he was very selective in who he brought in together as players.  It wasn't like he found BH or anyone else at a bar or whatnot.

I believe it'll all be for the best.  When one door closes, another opens.  


Look at it this way...........at least all this happened now and NOT while they were touring.....because then the tour would have to be canceled for sure

[echrisl]

Instead of focusing on "who is to blame" or "who hates Axl and BH".............why don't we all just use the current press release as a means to start 'fresh'.

Woo hoo, we're staring fresh again!  I love this starting fresh!

I do believe in GNR and I do think we'll see the light of day........when is TBD.

When Axl is forced to release it legally and/or dies.

I believe it'll all be for the best.  When one door closes, another opens.  

GNR is one big revolving door.

Look at it this way...........at least all this happened now and NOT while they were touring.....because then the tour would have to be canceled for sure

Are you joking?  I hope ...  because ...

[Dizzy]

GNR is one big revolving door.

Good one.  

[younggunner]

GNR is one big revolving door.

That is the biggest misconception about gnr created by the fans and media.

Other than billy howerdell, buckehead and josh freese who else left this band?

navarro,sunshine, and wylde were all session players.Wylde was brought in when slash was here. They were here to help form a new direction when the old left. They were never in gnr. They could have been if the material had evolved but never were in.

Josh Freese and Howerdell left because they KNEW THAT THIS PROJECT WAS GOING TO BE A LONG PROCESS AND DIDNT WANT TO BE A PART OF IT. They did the band a favor by leaving honorably. Freese is all about the action and he knew that gnr would be mia for a long time so he got out before anything began. Howerdell left for the same reasons and had been ready to form a little band called APC. They both left on good terms.

And we all know what happened with bucket.

Stop making it seem like theres a revolving door. For someone who visits these boards for years now should know that what the media says isnt true. The media thinks that all the muscicians brought in in the beginning stages were the band when that is not the case. They were brought in to help form a new direction of gnr. If something evolved after that then fine, but it never did so as a result they were never in the band. Gnr began to have a band around 98/99. Now one of its pivotal members has departed.

I get sick n tired of people throwing that revolving door bullshit at the band. Yet those same people say, o axl just get another guitarist for rio". shut up. Would gnr do a show like rio back in the day if slash left? Hell no. Bucket was a pivotal member to this band and now they have to figure out how to regroup and move on. Why?because its a band not some miscellanious project. But thats ok your all gonna find out for yourselves one day. And i cant wait to laugh in your faces.

[Mr_Brownstone16]

Other than billy howerdell, buckehead and josh freese who else left this band?

uh, you must be young. 'Cause Guns used to actually be a band where, you know they would release albums, and tour, and Axl would only not show up once or twice a year, instead of there being a 50% chance as there is now.

Let's list who has left: Slash, Duff, Izzy, Gilby, and of course all the guys you mentioned. So there are a lot of people who have left.
Oh wait I forgot you only consider the new band to be Guns N' Roses. I forgot Im sorry.

[insupportofaxl]

Instead of focusing on "who is to blame" or "who hates Axl and BH".............why don't we all just use the current press release as a means to start 'fresh'.

Woo hoo, we're staring fresh again!  I love this starting fresh!

I do believe in GNR and I do think we'll see the light of day........when is TBD.

When Axl is forced to release it legally and/or dies.

I believe it'll all be for the best.  When one door closes, another opens.  

GNR is one big revolving door.

Look at it this way...........at least all this happened now and NOT while they were touring.....because then the tour would have to be canceled for sure

Are you joking?  I hope ...  because ...

That is NOT what I meant regarding my comment about when one door closes, another opens.

Look, I don't give a flying fuck if you wish to harbor resentment and anger over issues you have absolutely no control over.  If you waste your time so be it.

I, along with others, will focus on the positive.  

GNR is a band.  Yeah, a band with more problems than probably any other band, but in being a fan, you deal with them.  And I'd much rather be postitive about it then negative being I have no control over what happens anyway.