My take on it all

[ckgent]

So rir is cancelled for GN'R, although i couldnt have gone anyway i have to say im really dissapointed about this. I was hoping this was gonna be the time that it all started falling back into place, ok, buckethead had left, but when you consider how quickly GN'R were able to sort a replacment for gilby when he broke his wrist i think they could have done the same here. If at that time they brought izzy back(who had said he couldnt play with axl again) why not try someone else who was once apart of GN'R for this one off show. Mr Hudson and Mr Rose could surley let bygones be bygones for 2hrs if izzy managed 5 shows. (I know its a stupid dream, but just maybe if they tried).

Axl putting the majority of the blame on bucket is kinda hard for me to take. Im not a huge fan of bucket(even less now), but surley when axl realised that this man kept changing his mind as to wether or not he was in the band, it was time to show him the door.  At this point in time i feel its vital Axl knows the people helping him try to restablish guns are 100% commited and are gonna be there for him. Axl really should have resolved the bucket case as soon as there was any doubt, and possibly we would not be in this positon now. I really hope the album will now be pushed ahead and some release info made available real soon.

I have heard from an ex member of GN'R personally that Axl can be difficult to work with(im sure we can all gather that), but that a lot of what he does is rather rash and can be the main cause of rifts in the ranks.

If you could now please bear with me i wanna point out a couple of things, which i feel will either get me abused or may in a way suggest a few points.

Guns n' Roses- Keep postponing the album release, have done a handful of shows in recent years, have a volitle frontman, and have contributed a song to a movie soundtrack.(similair to the past?).

Velvet Revolver- Feature 3x gunners, keep postponing the album release, have a singer who is holding them back(at times) and release the odd song for movie soundtracks(similair to the past?)

Izzy- always writting songs, putting out solo albums, reluctant to take the limelight, wont work with a singer and hardly plays live(similair to the past?)

Steven- trying to establish a comeback to music, rehashing old band material, and working with people from other la based bands.(similair to the past?)

Gilby-recording and touring with an already established band, doing his own thing but not getting to far.(similair to the past?)

It would appear that everyone past and present in the greatest band of all time are doing the same sort of thing, but just not as a unit. This is my suggestion:

Guns n' Roses is :

Axl-vocals
slash, izzy, gilby-guitars
duff- bass
steven,matt-drums
dizzy- keys

this guns n' roses has about as many memebers as the present one, still has the 3 guitar line up, can play all the classics and allows the fans to watch the members they long to see all on stage together again. A fantasy, but a quality one in my opinion.

You know where the fuck you are??
i hope so, cause i fucking dont.

[Booker Floyd]

Velvet Revolver- Feature 3x gunners, keep postponing the album release, have a singer who is holding them back(at times) and release the odd song for movie soundtracks(similair to the past?)

As much as I dont want to get into the comparing thing, since its already been brought up, I think it should be pointed out that theres an entire world of difference between Velvet Revolvers delays and Axls.  

Perhaps most importantly, its a fact that VR is completely finished with their album and its set for release.  The delays (Theres only been 2 official ones I believe, 4/27 to 5/10 and 5/10 to 6/8) are obviously more due to the label and Scotts legal problems.  And the delays are relatively non-existant when compared to the Chinese Democracy timetable.  Thats a project in the making for at the very least 6 years, if not 11 or more.  Contraband, however, will likely see release within one year of this bands actual inception.  Thats pretty remarkable.  This band is already doing promotion for an album thats actually been reviewed by critics, so its almost guaranteed that we will see this album by June 8th.  Theres really no comparison.

[HoldenCaulfield]

Ugh. I for one hope the old band never gets back together. I mean, I think it might drive Axl to complete seclusion, never to be heard from again...

[Funeral]

blah, this argument belongs in the dead horse section.  It's been talked about a million times.

-F

[younggunner]

Perhaps most importantly, its a fact that VR is completely finished with their album and its set for release.  The delays (Theres only been 2 official ones I believe, 4/27 to 5/10 and 5/10 to 6/8) are obviously more due to the label and Scotts legal problems.  And the delays are relatively non-existant when compared to the Chinese Democracy timetable.  Thats a project in the making for at the very least 6 years, if not 11 or more.  Contraband, however, will likely see release within one year of this bands actual inception.  Thats pretty remarkable.  This band is already doing promotion for an album thats actually been reviewed by critics, so its almost guaranteed that we will see this album by June 8th.  Theres really no comparison.

So if cd isnt finished, which you are implying, then how can there be delays?
Gnr have been working on the albums since about 99. thats 5 years. Not11. Lets not get crazy. Theres a difference between not putting out an album in 11 years and working on an album for 5 yrs.

Its the same old shit. VR have indeed whipped up an album in a short amount of time. Good for them. Once again though, what does that mean?
There is a lot more pressure on axl and gnr to deliver an album that justifies the breakup of the old band. As a result they are not gonna just whip up an album and release it for the sake of releasing something.

One hand people critisize Axl for keeping the gnr name yet on the other hand those same people critisize him for not releasing anything yet. Axl has acepted the consequences and responsibilities of keeping the gnr name. As a result he feels its his responsibility to deliver an album that will have everything thrown on the table. Why rush something. Its one of the most anticipated albums ever? Why rush it because other bands are going to release something.

That brings up another thing. We all now how Axl hasnt release anything for a very long time. BUt where exactely is the work of slash and duff since there departure? Gee golly you mean to tell me those rock n rollers dont have any material out there? By reading this board for a week you would think they have each put out a few albums since leaving.

We are now about to get somehting from slash and duff. They finally formed a band and will release a studio album that is worth listening to{hopefully} 2004
2004-1998=gee golly thats 6 yrs of silence from those guys. would ya look at that.

my point is stop with the vr gnr comparisons in terms of getting stuff done. VR is not even in the same ballpark with gnr in terms of expectations, responsibilities and living up to the name. And Gnr acknowledge that and accept that. That is hwy he is keeping the name. SO if your gonna throw that at him then you cant get on him for meeting those responsibilities. you cant have it both ways.

[Booker Floyd]

So if cd isnt finished, which you are implying, then how can there be delays?

Theres never been delays, per se.  However, when its promised annually for 5 years, the effect isnt much difference.

Gnr have been working on the albums since about 99. thats 5 years. Not11. Lets not get crazy. Theres a difference between not putting out an album in 11 years and working on an album for 5 yrs.

"Guns N' Roses," and the term is very relative here, have been working on the UYI follow-up since '93 or '94.  How many times Axl has scrapped the material doesnt change that fact.

Its the same old shit. VR have indeed whipped up an album in a short amount of time. Good for them. Once again though, what does that mean?

It means exactly what I said it meant, the whole point of my post: Theres no comaprison between Guns N' Roses and Velvet Revolver when it comes to so-called delays.

There is a lot more pressure on axl and gnr to deliver an album that justifies the breakup of the old band. As a result they are not gonna just whip up an album and release it for the sake of releasing something.

AFD didnt take this long.  UYI didnt take this long.  Nowhere near this long, in fact.  So times does not ensure that the record will be better.

One hand people critisize Axl for keeping the gnr name yet on the other hand those same people critisize him for not releasing anything yet.

Umm...yeah, its possible to criticize him for both you know.

Axl has acepted the consequences and responsibilities of keeping the gnr name. As a result he feels its his responsibility to deliver an album that will have everything thrown on the table. Why rush something.

Even five years, as you seem to believe, isnt what I or anyone would call "rushing".

That brings up another thing. We all now how Axl hasnt release anything for a very long time. BUt where exactely is the work of slash and duff since there departure? Gee golly you mean to tell me those rock n rollers dont have any material out there? By reading this board for a week you would think they have each put out a few albums since leaving.

What are you talking about?  Both have done plenty of stuff since Guns...

We are now about to get somehting from slash and duff. They finally formed a band and will release a studio album that is worth listening to{hopefully} 2004
2004-1998=gee golly thats 6 yrs of silence from those guys. would ya look at that.

 

I ask again, what are you talking about?

my point is stop with the vr gnr comparisons in terms of getting stuff done.

That would be my point too.

[younggunner]

"Guns N' Roses," and the term is very relative here, have been working on the UYI follow-up since '93 or '94.  How many times Axl has scrapped the material doesnt change that fact.

That is false. Maybe you should re-read the 2002 press release. Axl states that even if the old lineup stuck around they wouldnt have put a record out until 96/97.
Being that fell thru, Axl too on the responsibilities of carrying the name and would not move foward until a band that could justify the past and live up to the past had evolved. That material and band began to evolve around 98/99.

AFD didnt take this long.  UYI didnt take this long.  Nowhere near this long, in fact.  So times does not ensure that the record will be better.

Im not saying that CD will be better because GNR have taken their time with it. All im saying is that being that he kept the name he has to justify that with an album that meets or surpasses the past sstandards set by the old lineup. By taking his time leaving everything out on the table when its finally released doesnt mean it will be that but it also doesnt mean it wont. Once agian, you nor i are qualified to say when someone should release a much anticipated album or how long an album hsould take before labeling it great or not great because of the time that has elapsed.

Umm...yeah, its possible to criticize him for both you know.

Yea its possible. That just tells me you have an agenda towards acl and the band.

Even five years, as you seem to believe, isnt what I or anyone would call "rushing".

I never said rushing. BUt once again 5 years isnt exactely an absurd amount of time in making an album.

What are you talking about?  Both have done plenty of stuff since Guns...

Yes they all have plenty of stuff. BUt thats what it is, is stuff. Nothing that compares to thier work with gnr. They havnt done anything since their departure prior to forming vr. They havnt made any gnr worthy material or albums. Nor have they attempted. So why is Axl always being critisized for not doing anything yet the former members havnt either? The funny thing is Axl and the band have been busting their ass every dam night all of those years in the studio to make the best dam album possible. And for that and their lack of communication, they are viewd negatively. But thats ok the material will speak for itself.

[Booker Floyd]

That is false. Maybe you should re-read the 2002 press release. Axl states that even if the old lineup stuck around they wouldnt have put a record out until 96/97.

No its true...maybe you should read the press release when Axl describes these sessions.

The statement that I made, that GNR (regardless of the lineup) have been working on a UYI follow-up since '93/'94.  That is a fact.  Axl has scrapped a lot of the material (confirmed by Gilby Clarke in '94) - that doesnt change that fact.

Yea its possible. That just tells me you have an agenda towards acl and the band.

No, it tells you that Im personally unhappy with both, and criticizing one doesnt make the other off-limits.  Criticism doesnt mean an agenda...well, actually, youre sort of right.  My agenda is that I want them to release an album.  

I never said rushing.

Actually, you said it twice...

"Why rush something."

"Why rush it because other bands are going to release something."

BUt once again 5 years isnt exactely an absurd amount of time in making an album.

Going 14 years without an original album kind of is.

Yes they all have plenty of stuff. BUt thats what it is, is stuff. Nothing that compares to thier work with gnr. They havnt done anything since their departure prior to forming vr. They havnt made any gnr worthy material or albums. Nor have they attempted. So why is Axl always being critisized for not doing anything yet the former members havnt either? The funny thing is Axl and the band have been busting their ass every dam night all of those years in the studio to make the best dam album possible. And for that and their lack of communication, they are viewd negatively. But thats ok the material will speak for itself.

This argument is too stupid to take seriously, so Ill simply say that just because an artist releases something you dont like doesnt mean they havent released anything.  I feel dumb for even explaining that, but it seems like you dont get it.  And theres many people who like what Slash and Duff (or any other members) have done.  

[younggunner]

Going 14 years without an original album kind of is.

Yes it is but the current band that is gnr have been working on material since 98/99. They cant control 94-97. That is lost time in the gnr world. Lawsuits,band situation, future direction etc.

This argument is too stupid to take seriously, so Ill simply say that just because an artist releases something you dont like doesnt mean they havent released anything.  I feel dumb for even explaining that, but it seems like you dont get it.  And theres many people who like what Slash and Duff (or any other members) have done.  

Ok ill rephrase t for you so you can understand... Has the work that duff and slash put out since their departure been anywhere close to what they did with gnr? Its not even an issue dude.  
Im not saying that you cant liek their work all im saying is that work doesnt come close to what they did with gnr. They never attempted to make a bang in the music world since leaving gnr. They finally will be attemting that now with VR. thats my point.

People like you complain that there is no album, and we all want the dam album, but you cant expect gnr to release something just because the old band and axl failed to accomplish anything from 94-98. As a result the second era of gnr began right around 98/99. Since that time they have been busting their ass in the wee hours of the night in that Cali studio to put gnr back on the map again. They are ATTEMPTING to make a successful music contribution to the world like the old band did, unlike the old members have done since their departure from gnr.