remember everybody W axl Rose is Guns N Roses

[matt88]

At this moment in time with all the original members gone W Axl Rose is Guns N' Roses

...and remember the reason why we keep returning to this board and 'giving a shit' is because of Axl Rose

Ur very perceptive

[kupirock]

how u people can bitch about buckethead leaving is beyond me fuck the new band i could care less if they all leave, as long as W axl rose is alive thats all i care about, some of u people need to put your shovels away guns n roses arentdead, every member but axl is replaceable if they want to leave FUCK EM!

FUCK Izzy,slash,duff,buckethead and who ever else left gnr axl didnt fire them they quit so lets dont blame axl, cd will come out and it will be a better record without buckethead on it!

next  up kick out fortus and robin and GNR will be perfect!

  You should tell these stories to your dad, because people don't give a shit about theses things that you're crying

[Doc Emmett Brown]

GNR is W Axl Rose right now

...right now...   But GNR right now hasnt been anything except the butt of many stupid jokes due to his/their inability to release music or tour like a normal band.

It's true that I dont care about the others right now - but that's because I havent heard or seen what they can do together as a band!  If I was able to, then I would care!!

Would you give a shit about some redhead from Indiana if he hadnt made music WITH Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven (or Matt)?  

No you would not.   The only reason I care about any of them is because of they did as a band together.

And by the way, Izzy Duff and Slash left because Axl thought he was GNR.  Who's to blame for that?  Let's blame it on Duff....yeah..that must be it.

[Bahad]

This is the most ridicoulus post I have seen these days. All these songs made by team work. Axl wrote stunning lyrics, Izzy found the main guitar parts,riffs, Slash wrote awesome guitar melodies and steven made the drums for example. For quiting,firing,leaving stories: Nobody knows the real story except of them. Personally I dont believe Axl's theory. Axl was/is gnr , NO FUCKIN' WAY

 

[loretian]

I think you guys are completely missing the point of what D is saying.

Of course the other band members are responsible for the greatness of Gn'R's past music.  There's a reason Axl isn't calling his new Gn'R the Axl Rose Solo Project - it's because it's not a solo project, he needs other musicians and their ideas to create the kind of music he wants to create.

I think the point D is getting at is that Axl is the sort of overseer of it all, and it's all ultimately music being created in his vision.  While I am dissapointed that Buckethead is (apparently) gone, Gn'R is not about Buckethead's vision of music, it's about Axl's.  Axl can find another guitarist (if need be) to achieve his vision.

Anyway, that's my guess, and if that's what you meant, D, I think you're absolutely right.  

[Hammy]

Members I Give A Fuck About

Axl Fuckin' Rose
Richard Fortus
Tommy Stinson
Dizzy Reed
Robin Finck

Members I Don't Give A Fuck About

Buckethead - we do not know if he's left for sure
Chris Pittman
Brain

The first 5 ive listed i look at as GN'R the other 3 i don't and there departures would only bother me cos it could hold up the album again

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I think you guys are completely missing the point of what D is saying.

In my interpretation of his comments, D was making several points:

1. Axl = GNR.  Well, it's kinda hard to argue with that seeing as Axl forced it to be this way.  Is he the overlord of this band?  Of course he is.  Are the members on contract? Why yes, they are.


2. He apparently doesnt give a dog's piss about the other members.

You see, for some fans,  this went from being a rock band to some kind of freaky religion where Axl has disciples.  That's why the other members dont matter to them. That is frightening to me.

I want to care about the other members!! But I havent been given a chance to because someone doesnt release this ridiculous album.  I care about the Ex-Gunners because of what they did together (and are doing together).

3. If the other members leave, who cares as long as Axl is around.

This is the most callous of the points.  So you dont care if your demigod uses and replaces people as if they were cogs in some maniacal vision of music that has yet to bear fruit?  
You want your demigod to die alone without any respect from his peers so that you can feel sorry for him and empathize with his self-imposed isolation?

With fans like these, who needs enemies?

[loretian]

[1. Axl = GNR.  Well, it's kinda hard to argue with that seeing as Axl forced it to be this way.  Is he the overlord of this band?  Of course he is.  Are the members on contract? Why yes, they are.

Well, I think that's really debateable.  Slash and Duff choose to leave - maybe because Axl wasn't willing to compromise, but neither were they.    Axl didn't own the full rights to the Gn'R name until all the other members left.

2. He apparently doesnt give a dog's piss about the other members.

You see, for some fans,  this went from being a rock band to some kind of freaky religion where Axl has disciples.  That's why the other members dont matter to them. That is frightening to me.

I want to care about the other members!! But I havent been given a chance to because someone doesnt release this ridiculous album.  I care about the Ex-Gunners because of what they did together (and are doing together).

I hesitate to respond to the rest of this, because I don't know exactly what D was thinking.  However, it's my guess that he was trying to make a point similar to what I made up there, because of all the shit that's going on and how everyone else is just throwing around shit that's just as heavy, he wrote it in a somewhat callous way, so it came across differently to a lot of people than how he intended.  That's my guess, but I really don't know.  

As far as my opinion and your comments, I would consider myself an Axlite, but it's not that I don't appreciate the other bandmembers.  I love them, and I think they're all important, but the question of whether any of them besides Axl are needed to create the Gn'R music that I love has already been answered - the new music was done without any of the old members and I love it.  The new music isn't entirely creations of Axl alone either, it's music created by the bandmembers as a band, and so losing one piece will alter the music and how it sounds, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to like the replacement either.

3. If the other members leave, who cares as long as Axl is around.

This is the most callous of the points.  So you dont care if your demigod uses and replaces people as if they were cogs in some maniacal vision of music that has yet to bear fruit?  
You want your demigod to die alone without any respect from his peers so that you can feel sorry for him and empathize with his self-imposed isolation?

I really don't think Axl "uses and replaces people" as if they were cogs in a machine.  Buckethead has (probably) left, so Axl can either carry on with two guitarists or find a replacement for Buckethead.  The fact that it took him so long to build the new band (and possibly still building it) seems to me that he's spent a lot of careful time picking and choosing who he wants, not just "using and replacement people like cogs"

I see a lot of people taking every situation to mean the worst possible about Axl, and I think that's shitty.  Part of it's understandable, there's a lot of untrue shit written about the guy, but I think anyone that takes the time to honestly look into the situation (and spends the time to read the numerous articles and interviews with the bandmembers) without having a predisposed opinion about everything will see that Axl gets blamed for a lot more stuff than he's really responsible for.

Your above statement is an example - that's a pretty callous thing for you to be saying, when there's really nothing we know that would indicate that's the case (that he uses musicians and cares nothing for them), you're just taking the worst possible viewpoint on Axl given the situation.

[tjompus]

5 words, buddy:
Axl
Slash
Izzy
Duff
Steven

That is, and always will be, GNR.

Thats right man!

And no, mr D, Axl is not guns n roses!

[Doc Emmett Brown]

As far as my opinion and your comments, I would consider myself an Axlite, but it's not that I don't appreciate the other bandmembers.  I love them, and I think they're all important, but the question of whether any of them besides Axl are needed to create the Gn'R music that I love has already been answered - the new music was done without any of the old members and I love it.  The new music isn't entirely creations of Axl alone either, it's music created by the bandmembers as a band, and so losing one piece will alter the music and how it sounds, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to like the replacement either.

Leaving D aside for a moment, the crux of your argument is here.  Your love for Axl is admittedly of a different nature than for the other members.  They are replaceable. Short and sweet.  You appreciate their contribution only because it fits Axl's vision.

Frankly, I dont see how this is healthy for the band or Axl.  It will only feed his megalomania, and isolate him even further from normal people, and put him into the hands of sycophants and 'people of the desert' who tell him weird shit.  

Is this what it means to be an Axlite?  

[darkmonth]

how u people can bitch about buckethead leaving is beyond me fuck the new band i could care less if they all leave, as long as W axl rose is alive thats all i care about, some of u people need to put your shovels away guns n roses arentdead, every member but axl is replaceable if they want to leave FUCK EM!

FUCK Izzy,slash,duff,buckethead and who ever else left gnr axl didnt fire them they quit so lets dont blame axl, cd will come out and it will be a better record without buckethead on it!

next  up kick out fortus and robin and GNR will be perfect!

fool

[loretian]

Leaving D aside for a moment, the crux of your argument is here.  Your love for Axl is admittedly of a different nature than for the other members.  They are replaceable. Short and sweet.  You appreciate their contribution only because it fits Axl's vision.

Frankly, I dont see how this is healthy for the band or Axl.  It will only feed his megalomania, and isolate him even further from normal people, and put him into the hands of sycophants and 'people of the desert' who tell him weird shit.  

Is this what it means to be an Axlite?  

Well, I use the term Axlite because so many people do, and the people that would use that term would probably consider me an Axlite (so I was clarifying for you), but I don't consider myself an Axlite in that I blindly "follow" whatever he's into, I think I have logical and rational reasons for believing he is at the very center of the goodness that is Gn'R.    (Btw, the debate of whether Axl is Gn'R or what Gn'R "truly" is is something I don't care about, there's a million ways to define what a band is)

Anyway, I guess I'm kind of missing your point.  I still like Buckethead and his solo albums regardless of whether or not he's in Gn'R.  When it comes to Gn'R, all I care about is that the music I love is coming out of the band.  Given that the entire original band, aside from Axl, isn't even in the band anymore and they're still putting out music I love, I think it's fair to say Axl is and was the "main ingredient", so to speak.   I don't see what's wrong with this or why this is feeding Axl's supposed failures as a person.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Failure to communicate...

Loretian, I'm afraid I dont understand you either.  For me, if I love the music that is coming out a band, then I have a respect and attachment to all the members, not just the supposed main ingredient.  I know you said you love them, but my definition of love does not include happily accepting their replacement.

As for Axl's supposed failures as a person, as you put it,  I just think if he believes as you believe (that he is the only thing that matters, the main ingredient), then it only serves to isolate him even further.  This brings about more rumors, delays, and disappointment all on sides.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Axl Rose has the vision and owns the name Guns N Roses, but he can`t do it by himself.

[D]

I think you guys are completely missing the point of what D is saying.

Of course the other band members are responsible for the greatness of Gn'R's past music.  There's a reason Axl isn't calling his new Gn'R the Axl Rose Solo Project - it's because it's not a solo project, he needs other musicians and their ideas to create the kind of music he wants to create.

I think the point D is getting at is that Axl is the sort of overseer of it all, and it's all ultimately music being created in his vision.  While I am dissapointed that Buckethead is (apparently) gone, Gn'R is not about Buckethead's vision of music, it's about Axl's.  Axl can find another guitarist (if need be) to achieve his vision.

Anyway, that's my guess, and if that's what you meant, D, I think you're absolutely right.  

THANK U THANK U THANK U loretian!

one person got my point and im not surprised it was loretian

my argument has nothing to do with slash and co, if u see i said slash was gnr also in my 2nd post

my point is that it doesnt matter who is in GNR right now cause right now axl is GNR and it doesnt matter who else is in the band, the cd will sound like axl wants it to and axl alone so thank u loretian for being the only one to understand what im talkin bout!

[loretian]

Loretian, I'm afraid I dont understand you either.  For me, if I love the music that is coming out a band, then I have a respect and attachment to all the members, not just the supposed main ingredient.  I know you said you love them, but my definition of love does not include happily accepting their replacement.

Why not?  Buckethead hasn't played on any Gn'R albums.  I have no idea what exactly he would have brought to the band, other than his live work, which was cool, but definitely didn't "make" the new songs or anything.  If I had been a fan of Gn'R back in the day, I doubt I'd "happily accept" a replacement for Slash, but I would be willing to give it a chance, and if it worked, I'd be happy.   It's not easy to lose a major piece of the band that was one of the primary reasons the music was so great, as was the case with Slash. The point is that I care about the music, and if one of the bandmember chooses not to be involved anymore, that's their will and their perogative.

As for Axl's supposed failures as a person, as you put it,  I just think if he believes as you believe (that he is the only thing that matters, the main ingredient), then it only serves to isolate him even further.  This brings about more rumors, delays, and disappointment all on sides.

I don't think he's the only thing that matters, but I do think he's the thing that makes Gn'R music Gn'R - it's hard to put into words exactly, but new Gn'R music sounds like Gn'R music to me.  It just fits in some way that's beyond description for me.   Without talented and appreciated musicians by his side, I don't think Axl would be making the same music, though.

As far as whether this serves to "isolate him even more" etc. etc., I don't really know.  I have no idea what his state of mind is, or what's really going on.  I don't even see why you bring this up, none of us know what's going on in that regard.

[D]

another point is this, u people act like axl fired these guys

what is axl to do? he cant make bucket stay, he couldnt make slash and co stay, so should he give up or carry on?

he is carrying on, and i think the cd is gonna kick ass whether its this band another band or yet another band after that axl records with, thats mypoint, forget the old band, what they did was great but cd the blues maddy i love as much as the old stuff and that was the new band, so if axl were to play with 5 other new people and dump this current lineup im sure i would love the songs by them also

that is my argument, as long as axl is singing i will love it! sure id love to still have the original band but realistically that wont happen

u people are acting like buckethead leaving is the end of gnr, but my point is no member leaving will kill gnr but axl., cause if axl has the balls to replace the old guys im sure losing buckethead isnt gonna derail things

thats about as clear as i can make things

ozzycat im not a fool im saying people blame axl cause other grown men made decisions to leave, axl cant make those guys stay, axl said he was tryin to make a slash record, why does everyone take the old members side?

so what if axl wanted to progress and not make the same sounding records over and over like slash did, im tired of axl getting all the blame and slash and duff etc are martyr'd cause of axl's supposed dictatorship

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I don't even see why you bring this up, none of us know what's going on in that regard.

Loretian, as far as your feelings towards band members vs. my own, I think we've both said what we wanted to say, so I wont belabor that issue.  

But you ask why I bring up his apparent personal problems.  First let me point out that I am not the only one.  There have been many, many threads devoted to this issue including discussing whether he is afraid, is a schizo, or just a poor tortured soul.

Why bring it up?  For the most part it is useless, I agree.  But given the ridiculous state the band is right now, one has to wonder (since Axl is GNR), if his personal problems are affecting the band.  I dont think Pittman's problems (I'm sure he has some as do all of us) are the main cause of the band's woes.

Why no CD in 2003?  Why the no-shows at concerts?  Why the lack of communication?  Why do GNR bandmembers come and go?   Why is it so hard to just tour like everyone else?

I suppose it would be better if we didnt try to answer these questions for lack of real knowledge, but most reasonable guesses hinge on his personal life and problems.   That's why I bring it up.  

[Platoon]

Its not Axl's fault Slash, Duff, Izzy quit? ITS ALL HIS FAULT!!!!!!! He fucking ran them out of the band!! Just like he ran Buckethead out and most likely the rest of the new band!!!!!

[loretian]

But you ask why I bring up his apparent personal problems.  First let me point out that I am not the only one.  There have been many, many threads devoted to this issue including discussing whether he is afraid, is a schizo, or just a poor tortured soul.

Why bring it up?  For the most part it is useless, I agree.  But given the ridiculous state the band is right now, one has to wonder (since Axl is GNR), if his personal problems are affecting the band.  I dont think Pittman's problems (I'm sure he has some as do all of us) are the main cause of the band's woes.

Why no CD in 2003?  Why the no-shows at concerts?  Why the lack of communication?  Why do GNR bandmembers come and go?   Why is it so hard to just tour like everyone else?

I suppose it would be better if we didnt try to answer these questions for lack of real knowledge, but most reasonable guesses hinge on his personal life and problems.   That's why I bring it up.  

Fair enough, I see your point.

But-I realize he is "fair game", being a public star, but for the most part, he tries to stay out of the spotlight, and I given what he may or may not be, I have no wish to speculate on his own mental health, beyond the same allowance that I'd give to any person.

Besides this, who knows, maybe he reads these boards?   It's kind of impolite.  

I don't mean to be accusing you or anything like that, because I know you're not the only one, and, from our little discussion here, I can see you're definitely a rational, reasonable person.  I usually don't bring it up, I try not to get in the way of what people want to discuss, it just happened to come up in this conversation.