Guns N' Roses Files Lawsuit against Greatest Hits

[R4tfink]

I would normally think anyone who said this is a complete idiot, but I really think a revolution wouldn't be that bad of an idea.

Thats where you're wrong cus i am a complete idiot, a revolution would be an exellent idea in business.

It should be stripped down to its bare necessities and this includes the music industry and thoroughly investigated down to the tee.

It could take weeks, months, years or decades but at the end of it, it will benefit everyone.

Im way off topic here!

Axl should sue the whole music industry, hell we've been waiting for 4-5 years for CD so whats an extra 20-30 years for one man to bring down the whole industry and start it afresh!

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Here is yet another thing that is puzzling to me:

IF Geffen believes that CD is nowhere near completion for release this year -or- IF it believes that CD is not 'good' enough:

Then, logically, Geffen should have made GH the best possible record ever in order to get maximum profit!

You'd think they'd have proofread the text (no stupid AppetitIe), added a booklet/liner notes, and some unreleased material (like CrashDiet).

But they didnt! If they wanted GH as a means to recoup some money - then why make GH subpar?!

Who knows. What would you do if you were Axl in this situation?

well, "knowing" Axl as we do, he?ll problably say : "fuck this, I?m coming back to my playstation... Betaaaaaa!! my sandwich!!"
so, this is not a good thing ...

That was funny, RnT  

[Malcolm]

Im lost
Jarmo can i get ur opinion in all this?
please

[John Daniels]

when we start to think about this situation..why should Geffen release the GH album if Chinese Democracy was planned to be out this year. We can only assume that Axl Rose again failed to deliver Chinese Democracy to the label hands. So Geffen, being pissed, decided to have something and that something was the releasing of GH. So now we can just assume that Chinese Democracy was never meant to be released in this year (2004)

[Mutherfunker]

Geffen probably did a half assed job on GH and the DVDs for exactly the reason they released them in the first place - to make money.

Minimum spent on creating them = maximum profit from the GNR name.

The only thing they seem to have spent any money on is advertising GH. We all know why that is.... more sales = more money.

MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

@#$%Muther

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Geffen probably did a half assed job on GH and the DVDs for exactly the reason they released them in the first place - to make money.

Minimum spent on creating them = maximum profit from the GNR name.

Agreed.

I feel like Geffen doesnt care about this band at all.  What happened to the good old days when David Geffen personally rang up MTV to ask them to play WTTJ?

Now I'm starting to feel like telling Geffen: Get In the Ring, motherfukers!!

[pilferk]

Geffen probably did a half assed job on GH and the DVDs for exactly the reason they released them in the first place - to make money.

Minimum spent on creating them = maximum profit from the GNR name.

Agreed.

I feel like Geffen doesnt care about this band at all.  What happened to the good old days when David Geffen personally rang up MTV to ask them to play WTTJ?

Now I'm starting to feel like telling Geffen: Get In the Ring, motherfukers!!

I think you hit one of the issues right on the head:  Geffen is no longer run by a person (David Geffen) but by a multi-national conglomerate (Universal Music).  As such, there are no objectives or scruples more important than making money, to keep the sharholders happy.  

[oneway23]

Pilferk, I agree with mostly everything you've said thus far, but we keep referring to this hypothetical existance of a "procrastination clause" in Axl's contract...I could see saying Geffen was at fault for validating such a contract if this is a reality, but what if it's not?
     Perhaps Geffen simply had a good-will verbal agreement with Axl, based upon his previous successes or the potential for CD's success....While not the most brilliant business move, it must not be out of the realm of possibility, no?

[pilferk]

Pilferk, I agree with mostly everything you've said thus far, but we keep referring to this hypothetical existance of a "procrastination clause" in Axl's contract...I could see saying Geffen was at fault for validating such a contract if this is a reality, but what if it's not?
     Perhaps Geffen simply had a good-will verbal agreement with Axl, based upon his previous successes or the potential for CD's success....While not the most brilliant business move, it must not be out of the realm of possibility, no?

It's not completely out of the realm of plausibility.  That being said, in an industry where you usually call your lawyer to check to make sure it's OK to take a dump, I find that particular scenario unlikely.  However, having said that, if that's what happened Geffen (aka Interscope aka UMusic) is, perhaps, the stupidest record label on the face of the earth.  Everyone on the planet knows Axl's a loose cannon....making some sort of "gentlemans agreement" with such an individual would be wreckless, at best, and could be actionable by the shareholders at worst (not that I think that likely to happen).  

Another scenario is that there IS an "out" in the contract, and Geffen has simply chosen not, at this point, to excersize it. Probably because they're motivated by the potential for big dollar signs in the future.... Again, if that's the case, Geffen is still playing the role of "enabler" to Axl's shenanigans.  

I'll say it again: There's PLENTY of blame to go around.  Axl and the label each need to shoulder there fair share.

[TealaRose]

2.   The other possibility (and the most likely) is that CD is no where near being complete.  Geffen wouldn't release a GH against Axl's wishes if they thought that CD was in the near future.  This leads me to think that the material on CD is not very good.  This is the most likely scenario.

Why do people always assume that Axl's motives (I don't mean you personally Tulip) for not handing the masters over to Geffen are because the material is no good. There could be a million reasons. As mentioned before, Axl is a perfectionist. Do you know that OCD (yes he is) people are not that way because they wants to be, but because thry HAVE to be. That is the way it works trust me!. I agree there are insecurities going on there, but wouldn't you be a little reluctant to put everything you believe in "out there" to be "ripped apart" by critics, reporters, fans etc.....
Finally, has anyone considered that for whatever reason, Axl just doesn't want to do business with Geffen any longer?

If the material of CD was worth putting out....Axl would have done so already (this is undeniable logic).  This is the most troubling thing to me because we have assumed all along that Axl would create a masterpiece....this was obviously flawed thinking on our part

If the studio recordings and the album songs are half as good as what we have heard so far, then I think the material speaks for it's self. Just because Izzy and Slash leave, doesn't mean Axl suddenly forgets how to write music. Again there are many reasons he is holding it back. Perhaps legal ones, maybe he doesn't want them released thru Geffen for some reason. We (well maybe Mysteron) are NOT in the loop at all, so not one of us can really say what is going on.

Agnostic

[BucketRose]

1.  This is a publicity thing to get GNR's name back in the spotlight.

********


Not a chance.  If Axl cared anything about the spotlight, he wouldn't have blown off a tour without explanation.  If Axl cared anything about the spotlight, he wouldn't "work" on his album for years and years without ever releasing it.

[GypsySoul]

If Geffen is releasing this GH album to force Axl to release CD, well that's just fuckin' blackmail and NOBODY SHOULD EVER GIVE IN TO BLACKMAIL!!!  

So here's what I think Axl should do:
1.  Destroy the master and any/all copies of CD (hey, we the fans aren't gonna have it any time "soon" anyway so it's no skin off us).

2.  If the appellate court doesn't rule in GNRs favor, then on March 23rd Axl should walk into Geffen with a big mangled up ball of recording tape and that great shit-eatin' grin of his and say "My dog ate CD.  Can I have another $13 mil?"  [lmao]

[badapple81]

Good on Axl for standing up to Geffen and listening to the fans for not putting up with crappy products like the crappy DVDs with inferior technology and the GH. 3 DVDs and 1 CD.. thats 4 products Geffen have ripped THE FANS off with.

[alexgnr]

Does anyone remember back in the pre-illusion era, that Axl & Guns wanted to re-negotiate their contract with Geffen and Axl had threatened that they would not release Illusions unless their contract changed? The only thing that I can reasonably assume is that they went on tour because the album was at least 'almost' done. And almost does not mean it needed an extra couple of years work. They should have been able to have it out by next summer (which was summer 2003) imo. Since obviously this was not the case, I can only guess that one of 3 things happened:

- Axl had a fallout with the label and wants to sign to another one and release  CD with them, which obviously Geffen will not be too happy about.
- A bandmember or two left the band and they are/were looking for somebody to redo their parts and tour
- GNR has simply seased to exist after the NY concert

In any case, Axl seems very unhappy with the label and vice versa. After that lawsuit, I would be surprised if CD come out any time 'soon'.

[darknemus]

Good on Axl for standing up to Geffen and listening to the fans for not putting up with crappy products like the crappy DVDs with inferior technology and the GH. 3 DVDs and 1 CD.. thats 4 products Geffen have ripped THE FANS off with.

Can you HONESTLY blame Geffen for wanting a ROI (Return on Investment)?  If the 13.5 million dollar figure is anywhere near accurate, I dont see them ever recouping that with just CD's release, regardless.  Let's say they spend 1.5 mil on marketing the disc and make 5 bucks per CD sold.  They'd have to sell 3 million copies, just to break even.. and thats not even thinking about the different distirbution deals outside of the U.S. and everything else.

Sorry, 13.5 mil is alot of freaking money - especially for a product that is definitely untested in this current marketplace.

I honestly wish some of the "Axl is the panacea of all things great and small" people would try to step back for a moment and look at this with a slightly more objective eye.  Can you REALLY blame Geffen for this?

(I realize that yes, they are somewhat at fault for letting this drag on this long for whatever reason.. but I specifically mean blame them for wanting to recoup some of their investment at this point)

-darknemus

[badapple81]

Darknemus.. certainly cant blame Geffen for wanting some ROI.. but come on.. they were crappy products certainly not up to 2004 standards.

Anyway point im making is that the products sucked, not that Geffen shouldnt get some sort of return back   but this has been discussed a lot already so I wont bore people with it again  

BTW.. your theories and posts are always interesting and with some thought    

[ScottyGNR]

some of you people are brainwashed.  How long do you take Axl's side?   Lets get real.  If you're thinking that Axl is trying to stop this because of the fans get real.  Axl is stopping this because its what he wants.  IF IT WAS FOR THE FANS AN EXPLANATION AFTER PHILLY WOULD HAVE SHOWED THAT.  Geffen is fed up.  We're fed up.  And we can all "critique" Axl here but when a major corporation actually wants something to show for their money they're just a greedy corporation.  

Its the nature of the business everyone gets rich by leaching on to others.  GNR got rich and so has Geffen/Universal etc.  To say that "Nobody forced them to sign a contract that allows this kind of procrastination by Axl.  Nobody forced them, if there is an "out" in the contract, to keep writing the checks"  HUH???  What do you think this contract says, "Dear Axl, you have the right to take our money over many years to spend however you wish"

They are a major corporation.  Hell if I gave you $5 bucks today and you said you were gonna buy lunch and I see you later and you haven't eaten anything I'd be pissed

[Buritoking]

"My dog ate CD.  Can I have another $13 mil?"

Doesn't Axl have wolves? This could work, I have a puppy and he chews the crap out of everything. I'm sure a wolf puppy would be ten times worse...

[grog mug]

I'm not going to bother going through this entire thread, but is Bucket out of the band or what.  If so, this band is dead and Axl has officially lost his mind and will never regain his throne again.  He needs to start promoting new material tell the fans why your suck a dickhead and keep us in the dark and tour all around the US.  If not everything is coming to a dark hault for Axl Rose.

[Christos AG]

I'm not going to bother going through this entire thread, but is Bucket out of the band or what.  If so, this band is dead and Axl has officially lost his mind and will never regain his throne again.  He needs to start promoting new material tell the fans why your suck a dickhead and keep us in the dark and tour all around the US.  If not everything is coming to a dark hault for Axl Rose.

No, he's not out of the band.