1 year anniversary gnronline update...vote now!

[Cristina]

btw when you say "news database" you really crack me up. News and GNR seem to be mutually exclusive.

I know what you mean - I say this because that seemed to be the case some time ago, when something similar happened.  

In a short time whatever was on the site (I can't remember if it was this "coming soon" message already) returned as usual.

If Pilferk is right, it appears to be something different this time.

[pilferk]

It could also be, FYI, that they have "news" set up to expire one year from posting.  In other words...nobody officially updated it.  It was background code that read the date on the update, and just deletes it from the page after a year.

Lets not read too much into this until we've got a bit more info.

[pilferk]

btw when you say "news database" you really crack me up. News and GNR seem to be mutually exclusive.

I know what you mean - I say this because that seemed to be the case some time ago, when something similar happened.  

In a short time whatever was on the site (I can't remember if it was this "coming soon" message already) returned as usual.

If Pilferk is right, it appears to be something different this time.

Maybe, maybe not.  It could very well be that the page was "autogenerated" when the news database record expired.  The "new code" could just be a result of that autogeneration.

Unfortunately, Samspade.org, the tool we usually use to check when pages were last updated seems to be in a state of flux...so we're not able to tell exactly what has and hasn't happened.

[John Daniels]

Why to take 'stay tuned for news on chinese democracy coming soon' away. I guess there just isn't any news to share with us. Nothing isn't going to happen any time soon. That is what I can get out of that update.

[Lesty]

Whether it was taken down because updated news is forthcoming, or it was done because the news was older than a year, it still looked incredibly embarassing to have
"Stay tuned for News on Chinese Democracy coming soon" with the 3/9/2003 date.
I don't read anything negative into it being removed.

[darknemus]

After a bit of searching around, I managed to dig up another tool to check the HTML headers - similiar to what SamSpade did for us.  The tool is here: http://web-sniffer.net/

Unfortunately, the results aren't real promising - the page is still showing its last update as June 9, 2003 - lending credence to the theory that the removal of the 3/9/2003 date was nothing more than some sort of automated database cleaning process run by the DB itself.

I'm not saying that's the case - I'm just saying no one has actually physically updated the site - it was done by means of a script that existed as of 6/9/03

-darknemus

[loretian]

I would guess pilferk is right on the money.  The database still holds the news, and it's the latest news item for Gn'R, so either someone removed the code to query the db altogether, or the query limits the date ranges to a year or so.

[pilferk]

First, little background.  Up until now, we (meaning the "detective crew) have always used SamSpade.org for our "web tool" needs.  It's no longer functional (or, rather, it's functionality has been greatly reduced).  Because of this, we couldn't verify an update to the page.  dark found another tool, just a bit ago, that does similar things.  It is here:

http://web-sniffer.net/

It says that gnronline.com was last updated in June of '03.  That pretty much assures that the "news" was just cleaned up by a script, and a new page was autogenerated.  In other words, no one has physically updated the page.

Oh, and maybe we should merge this thread with the other discussing the same topic?? Mods?

[loretian]

pilferk, you're probably right, but I don't know if you've ever worked with ASP code?  It's possible that they updated the SQL query or the ASP code without affecting the HTML structure or output, and so the changes wouldn't be picked up by web-sniffer or any other tracking software, or person.

I still think you're probably right, and the query just has a maximum date range, but we really have no idea what they could be doing behind the scenes.

Btw, I'd never heard of web-sniffer or tools like that.  Good to know, thanks!  

[darknemus]

pilferk, you're probably right, but I don't know if you've ever worked with ASP code?  It's possible that they updated the SQL query or the ASP code without affecting the HTML structure or output, and so the changes wouldn't be picked up by web-sniffer or any other tracking software, or person.

I still think you're probably right, and the query just has a maximum date range, but we really have no idea what they could be doing behind the scenes.

Btw, I'd never heard of web-sniffer or tools like that.  Good to know, thanks!  

Loretian,

I agree with you there.  The only thing that I can bring up (and this is not knowing about ASP at all, really) - is that when the 3/9/03 update went up - the 'last updated on' HTML header info also changed.  That's where the 6/9/03 date came from.  So, not sure how that fits in - I'm just going from previous experience with the site.

-darknemus

[pilferk]

pilferk, you're probably right, but I don't know if you've ever worked with ASP code?  It's possible that they updated the SQL query or the ASP code without affecting the HTML structure or output, and so the changes wouldn't be picked up by web-sniffer or any other tracking software, or person.

I still think you're probably right, and the query just has a maximum date range, but we really have no idea what they could be doing behind the scenes.

Btw, I'd never heard of web-sniffer or tools like that.  Good to know, thanks!  

We talked about that, too.  Given the update frequency for that site...I, at least, think that it's more likely the script was there, and it has some sort of hard coded "expiration" on new items.  Without being able to talk (or get a response) from the admin/webmaster, our best guess is that the page wasn't actually updated.  It's just acting on code that was in place.

[loretian]

Loretian,

I agree with you there.  The only thing that I can bring up (and this is not knowing about ASP at all, really) - is that when the 3/9/03 update went up - the 'last updated on' HTML header info also changed.  That's where the 6/9/03 date came from.  So, not sure how that fits in - I'm just going from previous experience with the site.

That's a really good point.  Either the pages are dynamically generated and then statically saved (For speed reasons, probably), and the last updated date gets stuck on there when it happens, or they are actually making manual changes to the asp code and noting it there.  Of course, if the pages are dynamically generated, then statically saved, the expiration theory wouldn't work, because it'd be in the SQL query that checks it, which wouldn't be getting run each page generation.  But, the existance of the index2.html that seems to mirror the contents of index.html except with different page breaks also seems to indicate towards it being statically saved.

So, I would agree, most likely it's a date range limit in the SQL code for the news.asp page which is dynamically run each time, and the rest of the pages are dynamically generated and then statically saved.

Actually, I was just glancing through the code now, and I can't find any last updated information.  Am I just not seeing it, or is it gone now?

[just_one]

so is the page being updated or something is happening as we speak?

[darknemus]

That's a really good point.  Either the pages are dynamically generated and then statically saved (For speed reasons, probably), and the last updated date gets stuck on there when it happens, or they are actually making manual changes to the asp code and noting it there.

Actually, I was just glancing through the code now, and I can't find any last updated information.  Am I just not seeing it, or is it gone now?

The last updated info is avaialble with HTML sniffer sites like web-sniffer.net

Try this link.

http://web-sniffer.net/?url=gnronline.com&submit=Submit&gzip=yes&type=GET  (might have to copy / paste)

-darknemus

[SINSHINE]

Quick question...as I'm trying to decifer all this computer jargon. If I understand you guys correctly (dark, pil) you're saying that the site was designed to delete, change or alter itself automatically after a years time from the last update. Am I correct here?

Well, if that's the case, didn't the last "update" actually occur last June 9th and therefore any automated changes of this nature would not go into effect until 6/9/04?

Not sure any of this means anything, but it's cool nonetheless. What's cooler is that I started this thread a few days ago as a gag thread and I wake up this morning to find that there actually was a change...and it's my birthday too!

uh...I need a beer  

[darknemus]

so is the page being updated or something is happening as we speak?

Nope, it appears more likely that there's some sort of 'hook' into the database that basically, on 3/9/04 - erased the 3/9/03 (or hid from view) 'news' entry.

Basically, an automated database cleanup - Rosie the Robot for gnronline.com, essentially.

-darknemus

[darknemus]

Quick question...as I'm trying to decifer all this computer jargon. If I understand you guys correctly (dark, pil) you're saying that the site was designed to delete, change or alter itself automatically after a years time from the last update. Am I correct here?

Well, if that's the case, didn't the last "update" actually occur last June 9th and therefore any automated changes of this nature would not go into effect until 6/9/04?

Not sure any of this means anything, but it's cool nonetheless. What's cooler is that I started this thread a few days ago and I wake up this morning to find that there actually was a change...and it's my birthday too!

uh...I need a beer  

That's the one thing that makes us scratch our heads.  Like everything in GNR world, nothing is black and white.  Yes, the actual 'update' occured June 9 - however.. we have no way of knowing what date the DB was set at.  If I were to guess, the 3/9/03 thing was pulled from some date table, somewhere - basically, a mismatch of dates between PCs caused our discrepancy.

Heck, its even possible that the update was 'performed' on 3/9 - and for some reason not populated to the main site until June 9 - impossible to know without speaking to the webmasters / DB admins.

-darknemus

[loretian]

http://web-sniffer.net/?url=gnronline.com&submit=Submit&gzip=yes&type=GET  (might have to copy / paste)

Ahh, gotcha, I see.  The HTTP headers are sending that information.  Thanks.  I blieve at some point the html files had last updated information in them as well, and some SQL snippets, but that all appears to be gone now.

[loretian]

Actually.... okay, I thought about it some more.  That last updated is just for the index.html page, which is the main frame holder.

That has nothing to do with the news.asp page (the page which actually displays the news).  That explains why I remember seeing the SQL snippets and other info in the news.asp code page after the June 9th date, and it's changed since then.  And, if I recall correctly, the SQL snippets did seem to have date range WHERE clauses in them, so that would support our theory of the news item just expiring.

Actually, I just tried web-sniffer on the news page (http://web-sniffer.net/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fgnronline.com%2Fnews%2Findex.asp&gzip=yes&type=GET), and you'll see there's no last updated date.  That's because the server doesn't send last updated date info for ASP pages. (I think)

[pilferk]

Good point.  We were actually looking at the source code of news.asp earlier.  We've looked before, and neither one of us remember the "reviews.asp" script reference either.

Maybe the news.asp script has been updated....