When Did GNR "Jump the Shark?"

[WARose]

i think they were kinda gay in 1992 but i think apart from that they were always cool, the only exception is maybe duff in 92 and 93 because he looked very bedraggled and ugly i think. 

maybe i`m one of the few people on this board thinking that the new gnr are really cool, too. i have really high expectations for chinese democracy (hope it comes out at any time...)
i like axl`s new style and i think everyone here has to admit that his black pants are way cooler than the biker pants, he used to wear in 92.

[St.heathen]

I really don't mind the over blown section of the tour.  If the full tour was like that then maybe it would be a bit tiresome.  But the tour went through a few phases and with hindsight i'm glad that you can get Boot's from different sections and see the different sides of the band. 

The Dust n bones section was stripped right down. So they must have all been in agreement with that going back to basics set up,  including Axl. So it's what happened after that which is the mystery. Because they had always been falling out and a hostile band, so them not seeing eye to eye was nothing new.   

Maybe it had something to with the way they dealt with Gilby in such a cold blunt way, saying they wouldn't write with him and he was just hired help.  Of course he ended up suing them. So maybe that divided them and made it seem too business like?  Interestingly he is the only one to have since played with them all.... who knows?

[Intercourse]

Most great bands fuck up at some stage: release a bad album, loose a founding member etc. I think GNR had 4 fuck ups, each could have been recovered from but they seem to be showing the band hurtling towards a conclusion that may not be for the best.

Shark Jump No. 1
I don't know about anybody else but when I first listened to UYI and heard the 'cowboy saloon' plink plonk piano, I was fucking  horrified. I was 21 and listening to Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Faith No More, PJ, STP etc like all the youth of the day and that dated sound seemed so wrong. Of course, Axls voice and Slashs guitar sucked me in and I stayed with them all the way, I was forced to make an uneasy peace with the increasingly lush interpretations of their songs. I loved NV but I still believe if they had put it on the album  as a single expression of love in slew of hard rockers it's impact would have been even greater on the public; a diamond in a sea of rage and danger.

Shark Jump No. 2
Izzys isolation and departure. They re-recorded his guitar parts and ignored his ideas for UYI. If GNR was religion then Izzy was the father, Axl the son and Slash the holy spirit. They fucked that one up badly and without the 'father' the 'son' took absolute power and was corrupted absolutely.

Shark Jump No. 3
GNRs move to the 'Elton John Academy of Bloated Stadium Acts'.  I don't think anyone in that band except for Axl was comfortable with that change but since they all agreed to it, they are all to blame.  I saw three gigs of the UYI tour and loved it but got annoyed and uncomfortable with the damn piano in some of the songs (Pretty Tied Up etc). The backing band wore nice slutty gear and that was all the enjoyment I got from them!! I wanted the old band back, shit even a band as pompous as U2 (who I love) never took so much crap out on tour with them.

Shark Jump No. 4
The Spagetti Incident. I hated the single, the video and that stupid 50's 'doo wop' piano in the background. I just didn't like it and by the looks of the numbers sold, not many others did either. This album was released when land mark albums by Soundgarden, Nirvana and AIC were being released. It smacked of too little effort in a world where music was on fire with new ideas and sounds. GNR were proving their critics right ....Bloated, lazy, arrogant and self indulgent...where were the 5 angry young men that made us grow our hair, smoke Marlboros, play guitar and tell our parents to 'fuck off'

[madagas]

The idea for the backup singers and horn players was taken directly from the Stones-Axl said so himself in an interview in 1991. They were basically copying the Stones. Elton NEVER played guitars that loud! As I stated earlier, the jump occurred when Izzy left. I love the piano so watch it Intercourse-the Stones, the Who, and alot of other great bands do too!!!!

[Eric]

976-horn section, adding Teddy-never understood it-that's where a lot of people say they became a "bloated" band for a while.

[Intercourse]

I love the piano so watch it Intercourse-the Stones, the Who, and alot of other great bands do too!!!!

I have nothing against piano madagas but there was just too much of it. These guys were in their twenties and had set the world on fire with their debut album of fire, rage and beauty.  Suddenly they were copying the Who and the Stones, bands in their 50's with their glory days long behind them. Those bands used all the bells and whistles to fill out poor material that was written later in life.  Each of the bands you mentioned, their best work was as a 4 or five piece when they were young. GNR began to copy the Dinosaur Rock Daddies when they were still in their prime. That's my point, they became the antithesis of what they stood for originally and that was the beginning of their end.

[phaseONE]

Yep, AFD made them gods, the raw pissed off energy, it was still there for live like a suicide/ lies, then the illusions happened, dont get me wrong, theres some great songs on there, but the record was very tame when compared to AFD.

I say after they got paid the $$$ they got bloated on success and lost that oh so crucial edge, well.......seems like axl did anyways.

[ryan_of_lax]

Honestly, GNR started to go downhill from Day 1.

They were never a good BAND. None of them knew each other before GNR (except Izzy and Axl). Appetite For Destruction was the result of 5 people who had gone through Hell and back.

After that accomplishment, everything else was really just enjoying the ride.

They put out an EP with lyrics that I always felt were put there for shock value.

Then came the Illusion days. Steven was fired, Dizzy was hired, Matt joined, Izzy was practically non existent. How can you expect to relive the magic of Appetite (the story of 5 guys), when some of those guys aren't in the band anymore? Axl travelling on a seperate tour bus showed the lack of unity in the band. It really just seemed like no one cared about each other. Watching Behind The Music made me see just how...strange... the band was. They had Appetite, and then pretty much just stirred up shit afterwards.

I absolutely LOVE The Use Your Illusion CDs, but a lot of those songs are songs that were left off of Appetite because they probably weren't seen as being good enough.

This whole new band thing is really just silly too when you think about it. It's not Guns N' Roses. Anyone who was around for the old band knows that, and hopefully acknowledges it.

It's really a shame that just because 5 guys couldn't get along that we had to lose one of the best bands ever.

[Buddha_Master]

They jumped the shark when they had those dumb bitches play their flutes and shit with the band, Axl wearing gay biker shorts, blowing drying their hair, the overall bloated egoness (?) of the UYI tour.

[madagas]

Now Intercourse, shame on you! Exile on Main St and Who's Next (two of the top ten maybe top five records of all time) had piano or keyboards on almost EVERY track. That was the Who and Stones completely immersed in their prime!!!! Granted they only had one keyboard player during the tour for those records and no background singers. Again, the Illusion tour before Izzy left, to me, was the band at the height of their creative powers-great diversity, great musicianship, and great intensity. Dizzy on keys didn't take away anything. After Izzy left is when they went to the dinosaur Stones (Stones of the eighties and nineties) set up with all the fluff. ?

[Walapino]

Honestly, GNR started to go downhill from Day 1.

They were never a good BAND. None of them knew each other before GNR (except Izzy and Axl). Appetite For Destruction was the result of 5 people who had gone through Hell and back.

After that accomplishment, everything else was really just enjoying the ride.

They put out an EP with lyrics that I always felt were put there for shock value.

Then came the Illusion days. Steven was fired, Dizzy was hired, Matt joined, Izzy was practically non existent. How can you expect to relive the magic of Appetite (the story of 5 guys), when some of those guys aren't in the band anymore? Axl travelling on a seperate tour bus showed the lack of unity in the band. It really just seemed like no one cared about each other. Watching Behind The Music made me see just how...strange... the band was. They had Appetite, and then pretty much just stirred up shit afterwards.

I absolutely LOVE The Use Your Illusion CDs, but a lot of those songs are songs that were left off of Appetite because they probably weren't seen as being good enough.

This whole new band thing is really just silly too when you think about it. It's not Guns N' Roses. Anyone who was around for the old band knows that, and hopefully acknowledges it.

It's really a shame that just because 5 guys couldn't get along that we had to lose one of the best bands ever.

yep, you got it right. Axl shouldnt try and recreate it as he so exitely told us in MTV Awards cuz you cant!

[Intercourse]

Madagas, I haven't explained myself here really. I like piano work myself, sparce and tasteful. I guess I mean the horn blowin' bitches and all that tat. I think that the piano work in many UYI songs sucked to be honest, it was just silly old-fashioned chords being banged along in time with the guitars, serving no real sonic  purpose at all.
Songs like NV etc I can totally see what you mean.
U2 also used piano in 'Running to Stand Still' to great effect (along with many other of my favs)

I just saw instrument like piano being added in to many of the UYI songs as a favour to Dizzy more than anything else and that pissed me off.

We can agree or disagree and both be right, thats the maddening and amazing thing about music!!
peace,
Intercourse.

[madagas]

I do concede that there was slightly too much piano on the record and quite frankly, Axl could have handled it all himself. Joshua Tree would be in th top five to ten as well! Running to Stand Still is incredible. Another album with great subtle piano is After the Gold Rush. Have a good Friday.

[Intercourse]

Cheers!! Great posts Madagas. I'll blow the suds off a few tonight in your honor
peace
Intercourse.

[Johnnyblood]

I'm one of those that thinks that they jumped right after Lies. That puts us somewhere around 1989/1990, during the ramp up to Illusions. On the positive side, I do think that what is happening now (with the new band) is actually a step in the right direction. So if you ask me, Appetite/Lies-era GNR was the highpoint, but somehow, Chinese Democracy will end up being a renaissance. I just didn't like the vibe from about 1990 till when everybody quit, musically or otherwise. Obviously the originals couldn't work together, so it was best for them to break up.

[Falcon]

I'm one of those that thinks that they jumped right after Lies. That puts us somewhere around 1989/1990, during the ramp up to Illusions.

That's about the time for me as well, kinda went from being a cool rock band  to a cartoon like existence then a full on parody of themselves during the UYI's.

[jgfnsr]

Honestly, GNR started to go downhill from Day 1.

They were never a good BAND. None of them knew each other before GNR (except Izzy and Axl). Appetite For Destruction was the result of 5 people who had gone through Hell and back.

After that accomplishment, everything else was really just enjoying the ride.

They put out an EP with lyrics that I always felt were put there for shock value.

Then came the Illusion days. Steven was fired, Dizzy was hired, Matt joined, Izzy was practically non existent. How can you expect to relive the magic of Appetite (the story of 5 guys), when some of those guys aren't in the band anymore? Axl travelling on a seperate tour bus showed the lack of unity in the band. It really just seemed like no one cared about each other. Watching Behind The Music made me see just how...strange... the band was. They had Appetite, and then pretty much just stirred up shit afterwards.

I absolutely LOVE The Use Your Illusion CDs, but a lot of those songs are songs that were left off of Appetite because they probably weren't seen as being good enough.

This whole new band thing is really just silly too when you think about it. It's not Guns N' Roses. Anyone who was around for the old band knows that, and hopefully acknowledges it.

It's really a shame that just because 5 guys couldn't get along that we had to lose one of the best bands ever.

I agree with a lot of the above statement.

Looking back, it's ironic that Guns N' Roses' classic record was called Appetite for Destruction.? In so many ways, that's exactly what the old band had.

I've never been one of those who are more Appetite-fans than GN'R fans.? I appreciate the Illusion albums just as much but in a different way.? Comparing them will always be "apples and oranges."

As far as the new band is concerned, whether one looks at them as Guns N' Roses or not, I still say there yet remains more potential in that group of musicians than there was in the old band after the Illusion tour.

[Neemo]

Paris, pay-per-view

Thats when they jumped the shark for me

I Hated the way they did KOHD. "Give me some reggae". Fuck I hated that. Was very glad when GnR didn't do that whole crowd involvement and reggae interlude during that song. Never liked LALD either. Most people do though and majority rules.

Give me Lies and AFD GnR, thats the bad-ass band I liked.

[Intercourse]

Paris, pay-per-view
I Hated the way they did KOHD. "Give me some reggae". Fuck I hated that.

God yeah...welcome to las Vagas Cabaret!!! Fuck that was awful.
That rap stuff Axl did sucked donkey balls too...

[madagas]

Falcon, if your going to put it after Lies then you should at least wait until after the Farm Aid performance! A great performance and probably the only true punk moment of their career-the blistering Down on the Farm. An anti farm song played that ferociously at Farm Aid is about as punk as it gets.