Do you think religion will eventually become extinct?

[Jessica]

I think a lot of you confuse the words Faith and Religion.

People will always have some kind of Faith ( even though the divine won't help people in times of crisis, because it doesn't come down fromthe skies to give you a cuddle, pay your bills or arrest terrorists)

BUT, we are not talking of believing in some astral form of life that watches over the world.

We are talking of Religion = Man made so called sacred texts preached by untouchable meant to be sacred men = assholes making a lot of people feel guilty.

That's religion.

NO FAITH needs a house or place to be worshipped.

Faith is something personal and very different from one person to another ( just like sexuality errhmm).

Faith is in the heart, in the mind, and in the soul.

Having preachers, priests , call them what you want, leading masses of people is wrong.
Simply because they impose a unique viewpoint on religion, THEIR OWN. As humans.

No one needs to go out of their home to feel.

So Religion will die out, because people realise they do not need a " church, temple, synagogue, mosque" to have faith. Also, the moral lessons are universal, it's not even moral lessons, it's just fucking COMMON SENSE to live within a community of people.

If you have the slighiest bit of common sense, of course, you don't need to be told about " thou shalt not kill' and all that crap.

Religion will die out because most principles are 2000 years old or evne more and CANNOT be applied to today's society, beliefs, morals and daily life.

Yes Faith will remain and people need it anyway. But who needs religion ?

Do you really need someone to tell you what is right and what is wrong ?
Do you need someone to tell you what Jesus or any other saint looked like ?
Do you think everyone worships jesus and that one text has " THE" truth ?

NO.

No one has the truth. No one. There are SOME truths in history, but on the purely spiritual and astral term of it, unless you OBE and meet God himself, no one knows.

And i am sure that the people amongst us who connect the demanding deceased with the living  know a lot more about " God" than most your preachers, whatever their church anyway.

[Miz]

Science and religion can coexist, there is no reason it cant, Einstein was very much religious as well as being the greatest scientist of the 20th century...

True.  Hawking is a really devoted Christian.  There is nothing in religion (I don't think) that says science is all crap, and nothing in science that prooves that religion is BS, although there may be things that suggest it, theres no proof.

Is graviety true? Of course it is, was it true 5000 years ago? Yes  it was. Was it true to man at the time who had no concept of it? Of course it was.

Before gravity was a proven fact, it was a theory.  Not a truth.  Some theories are proven true, and others aren't.

But the force of acceleration due to gravity still existed, but like you said, it just hadn't been proven.

Just like religion, or a higher power or whatever, it'll probably never be proven either way, but it'll never die, because it gives people something to believe in.  Even if everyone's memory was wiped out, and all historic documents were destroyed, there would still be religions formed, because people need a purpose.  It gives people something to believe in.

It gives people something to live for.
It gives people something to die for.
It gives people something to fight for.
It gives people something to blame.
It gives people something to praise.
It gives people something to hide behind.
It gives people something to lean on.

As long as people don't start making irrational decisions based on it, I don't have a problem with it.  It's when people start interpreting "sacred texts" in their own ways and deciding that God wanted them to kill everyone who didn't agree with them that I get annoyed.

It seems though, that organised religion is full of (what I think are) retarded ideals, stupid rules, and primitive ways of thinking.  A lot of it is just contradictory bullshit.

To me, Catholicism seems like a set of rules that someone would put in place if they wanted to control everyone and prevent them from thinking for themselves.  Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.  Who knows?

I don't follow a religion, but I'd still like to believe that there is a God or something, but if there truly is a higher power, then I don't think it would try to restrict creativity, imagination and evolution.

[Miz]

I think a lot of you confuse the words Faith and Religion.

People will always have some kind of Faith ( even though the divine won't help people in times of crisis, because it doesn't come down fromthe skies to give you a cuddle, pay your bills or arrest terrorists)

BUT, we are not talking of believing in some astral form of life that watches over the world.

We are talking of Religion = Man made so called sacred texts preached by untouchable meant to be sacred men = assholes making a lot of people feel guilty.

That's religion.

NO FAITH needs a house or place to be worshipped.

Faith is something personal and very different from one person to another ( just like sexuality errhmm).

Faith is in the heart, in the mind, and in the soul.

Having preachers, priests , call them what you want, leading masses of people is wrong.
Simply because they impose a unique viewpoint on religion, THEIR OWN. As humans.

No one needs to go out of their home to feel.

So Religion will die out, because people realise they do not need a " church, temple, synagogue, mosque" to have faith. Also, the moral lessons are universal, it's not even moral lessons, it's just fucking COMMON SENSE to live within a community of people.

If you have the slighiest bit of common sense, of course, you don't need to be told about " thou shalt not kill' and all that crap.

Religion will die out because most principles are 2000 years old or evne more and CANNOT be applied to today's society, beliefs, morals and daily life.

Yes Faith will remain and people need it anyway. But who needs religion ?

Do you really need someone to tell you what is right and what is wrong ?
Do you need someone to tell you what Jesus or any other saint looked like ?
Do you think everyone worships jesus and that one text has " THE" truth ?

NO.

No one has the truth. No one. There are SOME truths in history, but on the purely spiritual and astral term of it, unless you OBE and meet God himself, no one knows.

And i am sure that the people amongst us who  connect living with the deceased dead know a lot more about " God" than most your preachers, whatever their church anyway.

I agree with everything you just said except the last two lines.  Psychics are about as real as Dave Lee Roth's hair.  They exploit the weak, naive, lonely for there own personnal gain.  Most of them knowing fully it's all a crock of shit.

[Jessica]

I think a lot of you confuse the words Faith and Religion.

People will always have some kind of Faith ( even though the divine won't help people in times of crisis, because it doesn't come down fromthe skies to give you a cuddle, pay your bills or arrest terrorists)

BUT, we are not talking of believing in some astral form of life that watches over the world.

We are talking of Religion = Man made so called sacred texts preached by untouchable meant to be sacred men = assholes making a lot of people feel guilty.

That's religion.

NO FAITH needs a house or place to be worshipped.

Faith is something personal and very different from one person to another ( just like sexuality errhmm).

Faith is in the heart, in the mind, and in the soul.

Having preachers, priests , call them what you want, leading masses of people is wrong.
Simply because they impose a unique viewpoint on religion, THEIR OWN. As humans.

No one needs to go out of their home to feel.

So Religion will die out, because people realise they do not need a " church, temple, synagogue, mosque" to have faith. Also, the moral lessons are universal, it's not even moral lessons, it's just fucking COMMON SENSE to live within a community of people.

If you have the slighiest bit of common sense, of course, you don't need to be told about " thou shalt not kill' and all that crap.

Religion will die out because most principles are 2000 years old or evne more and CANNOT be applied to today's society, beliefs, morals and daily life.

Yes Faith will remain and people need it anyway. But who needs religion ?

Do you really need someone to tell you what is right and what is wrong ?
Do you need someone to tell you what Jesus or any other saint looked like ?
Do you think everyone worships jesus and that one text has " THE" truth ?

NO.

No one has the truth. No one. There are SOME truths in history, but on the purely spiritual and astral term of it, unless you OBE and meet God himself, no one knows.

And i am sure that the people amongst us who  connect living with the deceased dead know a lot more about " God" than most your preachers, whatever their church anyway.

I agree with everything you just said except the last two lines.  Psychics are about as real as Dave Lee Roth's hair.  They exploit the weak, naive, lonely for there own personnal gain.  Most of them knowing fully it's all a crock of shit.

Not the real ones. Those don't want to be bothered, do it for free or very little and live their gift very badly, so bad they would never proudly announce it to the world. But that's another story.

[loretian]

jessica,

I hear what you're saying about faith and religion, you are right about that - but, you're ignoring the community aspect of faith.  Faith is an individual thing, but when people share a common faith, it's natural for them to come together and practice/study it together.  As long as there is faith (in a spiritual sense), there will be religion.

Also, myself and I think most people who actively practice any of the main religions would disagree that morals get old or that the current state of society alters them.  Slavery was wrong 200 years ago, regardless of what society's standards were.  I realize not everyone will have the same morals, but I think morality is timeless.

[Prometheus]

Is graviety true? Of course it is, was it true 5000 years ago? Yes  it was. Was it true to man at the time who had no concept of it? Of course it was.

Before gravity was a proven fact, it was a theory.  Not a truth.  Some theories are proven true, and others aren't.

Truth is also defined as being what you beleive

The definition you provided contradicts what you just said..

"A statement proven to be or accepted as true."

but dizzy you jsut proved teh point of my second defn. of truth, "the proven or accepted", soo 5000 years ago man had a theory that their was a force that acted on tehm teat kept them on teh ground?


the adage is true, because of teh "or accepted" part. you beleive that jesus doesnt exist, thefore you accept it that he doesnt exist, thefore its the truth. but the truth to you.......Until such time where it could be proven or disproved without a shadow of a doubt. It will be still true to some as they cant see the forest for the  trees.

The operative word being proven.  Not believed.

And as far as "accepted" as true, religion is not pervasively accepted as truth.  Even some people who believe it will admit that it isn't truth.  There is always the conflict between those who believe and those who don't.  Henceforth, the debate is created over whether or not it is true, in which case, if neither side can prove that it's true or not, then neither the belief or lack of belief is the truth.

As the old adage goes, "as long as you beleive that it is true then it is true."

And that adage isn't true (pardon the pun).

Using that logic, I could say "Jesus doesn't exist" and it would be the truth.  But then someone else could say "Jesus does exist" and it would also be the truth.  And that of course creates a paradox which immediately disproves that trusty old adage of yours.

Personally, I don't believe that Jesus exists.  But I will never say that "Jesus doesn't exist" is a true statement, because it isn't, even if I believe it.

love doesn't meet the definition of truth, but i think you believe in that.

Actually I don't.  I'm the bitter old man, remember?    

[Prometheus]

what a frarce this is......... again I have lost my entire 2 page post....... WTF is up with the board?.......all i got was teh quote from teh start of the post....

[Miz]

Also, myself and I think most people who actively practice any of the main religions would disagree that morals get old or that the current state of society alters them.  Slavery was wrong 200 years ago, regardless of what society's standards were.  I realize not everyone will have the same morals, but I think morality is timeless.

Do you think it's right that Catholics believe if, for one moment, you question the existence of God, then you won't go to heaven?

So basically it's like saying, don't think for yourself, don't question anything, just do what I say.  If everyone did that, then we'd still be living in caves.

[TheOtherMember]

"Not the real ones. Those don't want to be bothered, do it for free or very little and live their gift very badly, so bad they would never proudly announce it to the world."

Ahem...there is no such thing as a 'real' psychic. It's a contradiction in terms.


My question seems to have been clouded. I am not asking if 'faith' in a God/ higher power will deteriorate per se. I am asking if organised religion (i.e. uniting under one holy book etc) will fade, and people will see religion as a more personalised thing.

[sandman]

Also, myself and I think most people who actively practice any of the main religions would disagree that morals get old or that the current state of society alters them.  Slavery was wrong 200 years ago, regardless of what society's standards were.  I realize not everyone will have the same morals, but I think morality is timeless.

Do you think it's right that Catholics believe if, for one moment, you question the existence of God, then you won't go to heaven?

So basically it's like saying, don't think for yourself, don't question anything, just do what I say.  If everyone did that, then we'd still be living in caves.

catholics do not believe you will go to hell if you question the existence of God.

[sandman]

YES, humans do need someone to teach them right from wrong.

and more importantly, humans need consequences. so religion serves as a law of the land.

there would be mass chaos without it. so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society.

religion will always exist.

[loretian]

Do you think it's right that Catholics believe if, for one moment, you question the existence of God, then you won't go to heaven?

So basically it's like saying, don't think for yourself, don't question anything, just do what I say.  If everyone did that, then we'd still be living in caves.

Sorry, I didn't see your post until now.

First of all, I'm not a Catholic, and I don't know everything that they practice.  Some of the stuff I've heard I don't agree with, but I think there's far worse organizations to be involved with (PETA, for example  - and not because of their stance on animals   )  However, I would be extremely surprised if that's the case, because that's definitetly not in the Bible, and that pretty much damns us all to hell.  The whole idea of Christianity is built around forgiveness, and the idea that were all sinners, and all have fallen short of the glory of God, and God in his great mercy, is willing to forgive all the shitty, stupid things we've done, because he loves us despite it all.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about not thinking for yourself.  My point is that right and wrong exists, and they are not dictated by society's currently accepted viewpoints.  Slavery was just as wrong 200 years ago as it is today, even if most people didn't believe it, but I'm not saying you should accept it just because I or anyone else said it.   You gotta decide for yourself.  

[Miz]

You don't go to hell, you just don't to heaven.  This is the reason I wasn't brought up Catholic, because my Mum was, and she thought that it was a pretty stupid thing to teach your kids "Don't question God, just do what you're told."

I'm not saying everything religion teaches is bad.  A great deal of it is good, and it's good that people get taught morals and stuff, but some of it (in my opinion) is suspect, and the people who can't figure out right and wrong without the aid of religion, and base all their actions on it, don't really stand a chance when it comes to distinguishing between the good stuff and the crap that gets thrown their way as well.

[Dizzy]

humans do need someone to teach them right from wrong.

I agree.  That's why we have parents.

and more importantly, humans need consequences. so religion serves as a law of the land.

No it doesn't.  The law serves as the law of the land.

You're gravely mistaken if you believe the law needs religion to work properly.  It's the other way around.  Religion needs law to control it, otherwise there would be endless repetition of all the events I mention below, as there are in countries governed by religious regimes.

there would be mass chaos without it.

You're being ironic, right?  Mass chaos and religion go hand in hand.  Look at all the suicide bombings in third world countries, and the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.  Many wars.  Look at all the executions of those of differing religions conducted by people of one religion.  Recall the Salem Witch trials of the 1690s in the U.S.

All religiously motivated.  Religion is the #1 cause of the violence, decadence, and destruction in the world.  It has always harmed more than it's helped.

so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society.

Firstly, one can believe in God without being religious.

Secondly, you're telling me I should appreciate that it makes people close-minded, extremist, fanatical, and intolerant?  I should appreciate all the aforementioned examples of the results of religion?  Right....

religion will always exist.

Unfortunately, you're right.  Although I would relish the day it would become extinct.  It would be a giant step closer to world peace.

[MCT]

BUT, we are not talking of believing in some astral form of life that watches over the world.

We are talking of Religion...

That is such a flawed statement. To differentiate and segregate God (as a concept) from religion is downright defeatist. You try to seperate the two...... and you receive as a backwash, a veritable tsunami of self defeat. They are as entwined with one another, as you my dear are entwined with oxygen.

Moreover, if one were to "go back to basics" and keep things simple, then one would realize that in trying to seperate religion from the concept of God ("some astral form of life that watches over the world", as you put it) ultimately knocks the wind of validity, in ANY way, shape or form, outta religion itself.

[TheOtherMember]

"here would be mass chaos without it. so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society."

If you mean war...then...erm...

Saying that we need religion to keep us under control is folly.

"Moreover, if one were to "go back to basics" and keep things simple, then one would realize that in trying to seperate religion from the concept of God ("some astral form of life that watches over the world", as you put it) ultimately knocks the wind of validity, in ANY way, shape or form, outta religion itself."

The point of my original post was that I don't think people will stop believing in 'some sort of higher being', but that they might stop congregating under one title and worship on a more personal level. (i.e. no 'religion' per se, in the organised manner, but still spirituality.)

[Dot]

Well, what would happen if religion became extinct? I watched a tv show the other day and they had a theory that one day all religions will merge into just 1.

[Dizzy]

Well, what would happen if religion became extinct?

That's a tough question to answer, since there are many things that would have to happen before religion could become extinct.  All the questions about creation, universal existence, and mortality would have to be answered before all forms of religion could become extinct, that's why I believe that some form of religion will always exist.

watched a tv show the other day and they had a theory that one day all religions will merge into just 1.

That will never happen due to human nature.  The human animal is a very combative, argumentative beast who always has to debate and dispute unproven interpretations with one another.  Even people who belong to the same religion can't agree on what their own religion means.  Christianity is notorious for this.  That's why you have about 15 different branches of Christians.  Mennonites, Moormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Methodists, etc.

All members of Christianity, yet they can't agree on what it means.

So if one religion can't even possess a degree of internal stability, there's no way all the world's religions can merge into one.

[sandman]

humans do need someone to teach them right from wrong.

I agree.  That's why we have parents.

and more importantly, humans need consequences. so religion serves as a law of the land.

No it doesn't.  The law serves as the law of the land.

You're gravely mistaken if you believe the law needs religion to work properly.  It's the other way around.  Religion needs law to control it, otherwise there would be endless repetition of all the events I mention below, as there are in countries governed by religious regimes.

there would be mass chaos without it.

You're being ironic, right?  Mass chaos and religion go hand in hand.  Look at all the suicide bombings in third world countries, and the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.  Many wars.  Look at all the executions of those of differing religions conducted by people of one religion.  Recall the Salem Witch trials of the 1690s in the U.S.

All religiously motivated.  Religion is the #1 cause of the violence, decadence, and destruction in the world.  It has always harmed more than it's helped.

so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society.

Firstly, one can believe in God without being religious.

Secondly, you're telling me I should appreciate that it makes people close-minded, extremist, fanatical, and intolerant?  I should appreciate all the aforementioned examples of the results of religion?  Right....

religion will always exist.

Unfortunately, you're right.  Although I would relish the day it would become extinct.  It would be a giant step closer to world peace.

we can argue all day about the negatives and positives. but the positives are immeasurable.

you can label any cult group a religion. it's really not fair to christianity though. religion isn't the cause of wars, hate, etc.  corrupt humans are. and those corrupt humans use religion as a tool to get people to follow them.

[Ignatius]

All religiously motivated.  Religion is the #1 cause of the violence, decadence, and destruction in the world.  It has always harmed more than it's helped.

Not really. Money, power and the desire of possesion come before religion. Religion has really done some major damage, but it  doesn't come even close to the above mentioned. Look in south america, every country has had a major dictatorship over the past 100 years which has ruined the continent and killed millions of people. Some of  those dictatorships, chile, Nicaragua, Argentina were even sponsored by the us govertment to prevent another comunist regime. Look Africa, somalia, uganda, congo, ruanda...those are not religion related wars, those are civil wars, trival wars in which something snaps if you crossed over your "neighbour's property".
 
I do agree though that the arabic nations and the Middle east conflict sure is religion related, but also, it is a problem of what is yours and what mine ( Israel - Palestina)

I don't believe in any form of organised religition, but I do beleive in some shape of ulterior existence. Humans have a tenency to rely in scientific proff to whether believe in something or not. Science has proven to be erratic many times, misleading...but then again, do we humans need scientific prove of everything? faith is the belief in something you can't physically prove, however,how can you meassure something unmeassurable?.