Fall to Pieces

[Eduardo]

Thats boring as well... But thats him expressing his opinions, while Booker just slams him over and over

[Acquiesce]

I didnt say he gets picked for no reason. He gets picked because he posts that he thinks GNR is better than VR and that The Blues is better than FTP and shit like this. Hes posting his opinions, which happen to be different from the majority here. So what?

Dave isn't being slammed because he prefers the new band to Velvet Revolver. Plenty of posters have stated the same thing, but you don't see anyone getting slammed except Dave. The difference between Dave and the rest is that Dave acts completely juvenile about the whole matter. I have no problem with him not liking the material, but I can't take him seriously when behaves in such an immature fashion. It's like he went and deemed Velvet Revolver the enemy because they are not with his hero. So when he sees the enemy getting positive attention, he has to run in here and keep fighting for his hero and try to prove Axl is better because he has some sort of inferiority complex.

The other reason people are tired of him is because he is completely predictable. Can you honestly say Dave is being objective? No way in hell is he being objective. Dave doesn't like VR because he simply won't allow himself. He will never listen to them with an open mind because he feels he has to prove Axl is right. His mind was made up a long time ago. He isn't posting his opinion to contribute to a mature discussion, he is posting his thoughts as part of some bizarre crusade for Axl.

Compare him to D and younggunner and you will see what I mean. They both are "Axl fans" but they are listening to Velvet Revolver with an open mind. They may prefer GNR, but we all respect them because they can express their opinions in a mature, rational, manner. Dave just acts like he is an 8 year old arguing with another child over his favorite superhero.

[D]

thanks girlgunner! glad u have read my post

i love velvet revolver i love everyone in it

i have a softer spot for axl but i love the other guys alot and will support them!!!

[jarmo]

The other reason people are tired of him is because he is completely predictable. Can you honestly say Dave is being objective? No way in hell is he being objective.

And how many VR fans are objective?


By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  



/jarmo

[eNgIeS]

A throw back? Oh you got that right, they lamely ripped off the gnr into.
You wanted to best, well they didnt make it.....etc etc

how fucking orginal is that  

Yeah, they ripped themselves off...

So clueless...

Good to see your criticism is limited to something as trivial as that    Of course now youll go ahead and struggle to pick apart the actual performance, but youre just as transparent and childish as ever.

@ dave making an idiot out of himself & avoiding these issues, which shouldnt be suprizing

[Booker Floyd]

And how many VR fans are objective?

More than you probably think..."Objective" is relative, as in not completely blinded by hero worship.  Yeah, yeah, VR fans "bash" Axl all of the time, because we should all be thrilled with cancellations, no-shows, band members leaving and an album thats been in the "finishing touches" stage for 5 years with no release date.  I dont see a whole lot to be excited about in the GNR world, so I would think that criticism is fairly "objective" in this case.  Because when it comes to the music, I think many so-called "bashers" such as myself have given a generally enthusiastic reaction, minus "Silkworms".  Its all of the other bullshit that gets the criticism, and it doesnt really extend to the music.  Our opinions of Axl are based on him and his actions, and dont relate to any ex-members.  I dont feel the constant need to post in every thread on why I think "Set Me Free" 'wipes the floor' with "Chinese Democracy," etc.  

And Ive seen you try on several occassions to compare VRs delays to GNRs.  I shouldnt have to address this, because the ludicrousness of comparing 3 or 4 delays of a few months/weeks to Chinese Democracy should be apparent to anybody with some common sense.  Because when it comes down to it, VR delivered on their promise to get out an album.  It was a little later than wed hoped (apparently due to Greatest Hits, which is apparently a result of Axls situation).  But here they are, doing a tour (which even I didnt expect) and putting out a record - all in the span of little more than one (1) year.  And I like all of VRs new music, just like I like Axls new music, however with all of the live shows, appearences, interviews, new music, etc. etc., dont you see how there might be a small difference in the attitudes toward each band?  Why one would generally be more positive about one band than the other.  This is the kind of stuff that is genuinely exciting, and trust me, if and when Axl and Co. ever get around to doing this, Ill be just as excited.  But nothing of any real excitement relating to GNR has happened in 2 years...thats the way it is. Its just a shame that supposed GNR fans have an opportunity to get behind 3/5 of their 'favorite band' but are taking this time for granted because they feel the need to choose sides...How childish is that?

By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  

Funny in what sense?  Im assuming theres some kind of implication here, since there usually is in your VR posts.

Didnt Snakepit do it as well (if not the same guy)?  

[eNgIeS]

And how many VR fans are objective?

More than you probably think..."Objective" is relative, as in not completely blinded by hero worship.  Yeah, yeah, VR fans "bash" Axl all of the time, because we should all be thrilled with cancellations, no-shows, band members leaving and an album thats been in the "finishing touches" stage for 5 years with no release date.  I dont see a whole lot to be excited about in the GNR world, so I would think that criticism is fairly "objective" in this case.  Because when it comes to the music, I think many so-called "bashers" such as myself have given a generally enthusiastic reaction, minus "Silkworms".  Its all of the other bullshit that gets the criticism, and it doesnt really extend to the music.  Our opinions of Axl are based on him and his actions, and dont relate to any ex-members.  I dont feel the constant need to post in every thread on why I think "Set Me Free" 'wipes the floor' with "Chinese Democracy," etc.  

And Ive seen you try on several occassions to compare VRs delays to GNRs.  I shouldnt have to address this, because the ludicrousness of comparing 3 or 4 delays of a few months/weeks to Chinese Democracy should be apparent to anybody with some common sense.  Because when it comes down to it, VR delivered on their promise to get out an album.  It was a little later than wed hoped (apparently due to Greatest Hits, which is apparently a result of Axls situation).  But here they are, doing a tour (which even I didnt expect) and putting out a record.  This is the kind of stuff that is genuinely exciting, and trust me, if and when Axl and Co. ever get around to doing this, Ill be just as excited.  But nothing of any real excitement relating to GNR has happened in 2 years...thats the way it is. Its just a shame that supposed GNR fans have an opportunity to get behind 3/5 of their 'favorite band' but are taking this time for granted because they feel the need to choose sides...How childish is that?

By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  

Funny in what sense?  Im assuming theres some kind of implication here, since there usually is in your VR posts.

Didnt Snakepit do it as well (if not the same guy)?  

Exactly what i would've liked to have said, but you saved me the bother , except i just wanna say in response to the "same intro" line, i'll use the saying "if it aint broke, dont fix it". They wanna have a fun rock n roll show anyway, they dont care about a shitty intro. It probably took Axl 2 years to come up with the intro he used in RIR3 anyway

[rubie vale]

I agree with Booker on this one, Jarmo, I have always highly regarded your  level headed mails in times when the forum is in danger of sliding into bad territory between posters.

However, I can't help feeling that you don't seem to be as 'on the fence' as usual with VR and it fans on this site.  I've seen you post mails about GNR that were highly critical of GNR. I though were brave considering Uncle Axl might be looking in on you and I respect you for that.  You're no suck-ass that's for sure!!

Lately however, your comments  seem to indicate you find some of the VR fans lacking in objectivity (which may be true) yet you seem to say nothing about the likes of Dave who frankly worries me a little he's so full if negative energy and conflicting emotions about two collective groups of people he has no personal interaction or strong bond with (VR GNR). I'm sure you enjoy when there is spice in the forum cake, I know I do but are you being fair to each and every of your loyal posters? Just a question.
peace,
Rubie

[Greg]

Gah, I really enjoyed "Fall to Pieces;" Anyway, I hate the notion of comparing original songs from a relatively new band to any of the member?s prior work. It seems rather pointless and can directly proceed to eat a fucking dick, in my opinion.

[jarmo]

More than you probably think..."Objective" is relative, as in not completely blinded by hero worship.

I've read quite many posts by both GN'R and VR fans. I see similarities. One side thinks they're better than the other and laughs at the "worshippers/asskissers" when in fact both "sides" have these fans.

And Ive seen you try on several occassions to compare VRs delays to GNRs.  I shouldnt have to address this, because the ludicrousness of comparing 3 or 4 delays of a few months/weeks to Chinese Democracy should be apparent to anybody with some common sense.  

Umm, as far as I remember. I pointed out that delays happen to most people/bands. No big deal to me. Nobody's perfect.....

By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  

Funny in what sense?  Im assuming theres some kind of implication here, since there usually is in your VR posts.

Didnt Snakepit do it as well (if not the same guy)?  

How about "new band, new intro"?  


I think Loaded used the same guy because he's Duff's tech. As far asI remember, Loaded didn't use the same intro.....


Regarding Dave, he likes Axl. So fucking what? I bet some people here like Slash as much as he seems to like Axl. His opinion on VR seem to make certain people think they should attack him personally. Just because he doesn't like the band you like. That's a bit odd.

If my username was "SLASHISMY#1HEROANDHERULES" and I said ""Contraband" is the best rock album ever and "Slither" is the best music video in the history of music videos", would you attack me for being biased?

But if I was labeled as an Axl fan and said "I don't think Slither was anything special", I'd get attacked because as we all know, I'm biased....  



/jarmo

[Bravefish]

I find it quite funny new band new intro. Let me see, my mind wanders to NEW GNR, maybe NEW SONGS, why play all the old songs then if a new band cant do what an old band did? lol thats a stupid argument

and secondly dave comes out with stupid comparisons, slither aint as good as the blues how different are they as songs. compare songs trying to get over the same message, compare the blues n ygnr or something, or slither n chinese democracy. Everything vr comes out with dave will bak it up by saying but it aint as good as GNR. Well who gives a fuck, they are different bands let them be different.

ANd yeah if ur name was slash fan then ur going to be biased thats common sense. a true FAN likes the band and the music, for sre u like someone more than the other members but saying ur a fan because u like one guy is stupid.

Fish

[jarmo]

I find it quite funny new band new intro. Let me see, my mind wanders to NEW GNR, maybe NEW SONGS, why play all the old songs then if a new band cant do what an old band did? lol thats a stupid argument

Yeah. It's really stupid. Sorry.  

This has nothing to do with GN'R so maybe you should try to stop your mind from wandering that much?

Well who gives a fuck, they are different bands let them be different.

Exactly. "You wanted the best, well they didn't fucking make it. So here's what you get, from Holly... Los Angeles, Guns.... Velvet Revolver!".  

Now, if Contraband's cover art was a painting by Mark Kostabi, I'd find that funny as well. Objections?



/jarmo

[madagas]

I have never seen a bigger collection of dorks congregating in one place in my life. ALL of you people are like broken records and are extremely predictable. Booker and Falcon are every bit as annoying as Dave any day of the week (and are just as biased-contrary to the pseudo intellectual vomit they try to spew on a daily basis). Falcon, the fact that you hold the Cult in ANY kind of musical esteem is laughable and completely negates any of your musical credibility-already negated by your closed minded narrow view of "rock" music in general. I like the Cult and "Edie"-a complete power ballad if ever there was one, but they are critically and commercially irrelevant compared to Gnr (ORIGINAL)-as is STP. You guys are waxing poetic about Weiland (Astbury- same thing) like he is somehow the second coming of Roger Daltrey or Johnny Rotten. This guy can't hold Axl's jock-in any capacity at any time. Sure, Weiland and Slash fit nicely and the band is solid, but let's not get carried away. Overall, Rose is looked at as one of the greatest frontmen ever. Yes, he is a joke in some circles but you cannot underestimate or forget how huge Gnr was in their day. Modern rock-classic rock what the fuck ever-it is all the same shit.  Axl was a MAJOR part of that success and that success FAR exceeds anything done by Weiland or even Nirvana (sales wise) or any other "modern rock" act of the last 20 years.. Just my two cents. It is nice Slash has found a "good"-note good, not great-frontman and has put together his best album in a decade, but please keep things in perspective. ps I know, Axl hasn't done anything since Gnr and the comeback or pseudo comeback was a disaster. However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe..

[slashedguns]

Look at the points we are arguing over. Its clear that years of waiting and frustration have left us rendered as insane as MR Rose himself

[RyanMFGs]

Hhahah everyone just compares GNR to VR and vice-versa.

Dave comes in here and doesn't just post his opinion but he's very challenging and insulting to the VR fans to try to get them to fight back, he's instigating, that's all.

I don't care either way. I love the shit out of Velvet Revolver and I loved the shit out of the new GNR, I went to see them in Cleveland. But now I'm sick and tired of them and I'm disgusted with Axl. I don't go on all the boards posting about it. I don't go over to the GNR board ever to try to piss people off with it, if I do go over there it's to read posts and that's all.

But I do realize what you're saying Jarmo, we have non-VR pro nuGuns fans like that and vice-versa, and then we have the people who want to argue.

[younggunner]

I have never seen a bigger collection of dorks congregating in one place in my life. ALL of you people are like broken records and are extremely predictable. Booker and Falcon are every bit as annoying as Dave any day of the week (and are just as biased-contrary to the pseudo intellectual vomit they try to spew on a daily basis).  You guys are waxing poetic about Weiland (Astbury- same thing) like he is somehow the second coming of Roger Daltrey or Johnny Rotten. This guy can't hold Axl's jock-in any capacity at any time. Sure, Weiland and Slash fit nicely and the band is solid, but let's not get carried away. Overall, Rose is looked at as one of the greatest frontmen ever. Yes, he is a joke in some circles but you cannot underestimate or forget how huge Gnr was in their day. Modern rock-classic rock what the fuck ever-it is all the same shit.  Axl was a MAJOR part of that success and that success FAR exceeds anything done by Weiland or even Nirvana (sales wise) or any other "modern rock" act of the last 20 years.. Just my two cents. It is nice Slash has found a "good"-note good, not great-frontman and has put together his best album in a decade, but please keep things in perspective. ps I know, Axl hasn't done anything since Gnr and the comeback or pseudo comeback was a disaster. However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe..  

Excellent post


My only problem with vr is that they think there the saviors to rock n roll. They might very wll be. But you dont talk about it. You do it. You make songs that represent rnr or whatver. You say your this grimy band you do it. You say this and that you do it. Instead all i have heard is abover averages rock songs. SOme are excellent but nothing to boast about for the most part. Yes, it rocks but i dont need to hear all the other stuff every 10 seconds....

The people who like vr who claim they like gnr just as much are bullshitting too. When theres an absurb and unfair gnr article or review I never see the lieks of Booker go to great lenghts and give a journalism 101 class and dismiss the article. Instead He lables the people who defend the band and says you cant eb taken seriosuly because you cant handle a negative article.

Good ol vr gets a negative article and we get a free class and we must dismiss the articlce because clearly the jounralist loves gnr /axl rose .....the people who agree with the artricle just wanna bash vr .....

who cares though. If you liek vr or gnr great. Enjoy it. whatver you get out of it is only for you. Music isnt about hating. Its about personal satisfaction. We all have our opinions on why each are better or suck but it really doesnt matter. And when you really can make an opinion is when gnr material is out till then you have evry right to mock the band. And bash them. They have fucked up pr wise. But if your a fan who cares? Its about the music. So when it comes out maybe it wont dissapoint. Maybe it will be the greates thing since afd. or maybe it will be a major flop. Then what. are you still gonna hate because of the fucked up pr shit. hell no its about the music and what it does for you.

[Falcon]

I have never seen a bigger collection of dorks congregating in one place in my life. ALL of you people are like broken records and are extremely predictable. Booker and Falcon are every bit as annoying as Dave any day of the week (and are just as biased-contrary to the pseudo intellectual vomit they try to spew on a daily basis). Falcon, the fact that you hold the Cult in ANY kind of musical esteem is laughable and completely negates any of your musical credibility-already negated by your closed minded narrow view of "rock" music in general. I like the Cult and "Edie"-a complete power ballad if ever there was one, but they are critically and commercially irrelevant compared to Gnr (ORIGINAL)-as is STP. You guys are waxing poetic about Weiland (Astbury- same thing) like he is somehow the second coming of Roger Daltrey or Johnny Rotten. This guy can't hold Axl's jock-in any capacity at any time. Sure, Weiland and Slash fit nicely and the band is solid, but let's not get carried away. Overall, Rose is looked at as one of the greatest frontmen ever. Yes, he is a joke in some circles but you cannot underestimate or forget how huge Gnr was in their day. Modern rock-classic rock what the fuck ever-it is all the same shit.  Axl was a MAJOR part of that success and that success FAR exceeds anything done by Weiland or even Nirvana (sales wise) or any other "modern rock" act of the last 20 years.. Just my two cents. It is nice Slash has found a "good"-note good, not great-frontman and has put together his best album in a decade, but please keep things in perspective. ps I know, Axl hasn't done anything since Gnr and the comeback or pseudo comeback was a disaster. However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe..

I find your entire post "laughable"...but I can't resist a few whacky diatribes...

"However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe."

At the present time (well hell, the last 12 years) he's been CAPABLE of about 5 songs so believe me, judgment has been reserved.  

One more that I found amusing, "but they are critically and commercially irrelevant compared to Gnr".  The "critically" portion is neither here nor there, each band you brought up has had there share of good and bad press.  The "commercial" part immediatley "negates any of your musical credibility" to the n'th degree.  By your logic,, whoever sells the most records is more relevent.

My musical taste remains with the influential,  forerunners of movements and leaders of genres, not with who was "huge" or was bigger "sales wise".
If those qualities (in your opinion) reflect a "closed minded narrow view of "rock" music in general.", so be it.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Axl hasn't done anything since Gnr and the comeback or pseudo comeback was a disaster. However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe..

"However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe."

At the present time (well hell, the last 12 years) he's been CAPABLE of about 5 songs so believe me, judgment has been reserved.  

No, no Falcon.  Axl is holding back his big guns, remember?      

Any rational criticism of VR is fine by me - they have an actual album to judge! Imagine that!  A real fucking album!  

Some songs are better than others, some lyrics more meaningful than others.  But the same thing can be said of newGNR!!  

I find Rhiad a rather mediocre song - funny how no one compares Rhiad to Slither     But that's just my opinion.

[Acquiesce]

And how many VR fans are objective?


By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  



/jarmo

Obviously everyone has their own bias because it's a part of being human, but can you honestly say Dave is the same as everyone else on this board? It's not a matter of being a GNR or  VR fan, Dave just happens to be the least objective and rational person on this board.

Nice potshot by the way but what does it have to do with my post?

[jarmo]

It's not a matter of being a GNR or  VR fan, Dave just happens to be the least objective and rational person on this board.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I really don't care.

It's one guy's opinion...

I wouldn't say certain VR fans are the most objective person's to judge what Axl has done/hasn't done, and I also wouldn't say certain Axl fans are the most objective regarding VR. It's all the same to me.

As I said in an ealier post, one side thinks they're better than the other....

I don't know how many times I've seen Slash, Duff, Izzy etc fans making fun of Axl fans and then they worship the ground their hero walks on. It's all the same....

Nice potshot by the way but what does it have to do with my post?

What? Where?  



/jarmo