Guns N' Roses Files Lawsuit against Greatest Hits

[SLCPUNK]

This does afirm Mysteron.

It's kind of cool in a way too. But I worry about CD being held up even longer.

[pilferk]

We don't know what Axl's contract says in regards to ownership of the material. I personally doubt he has a standard industry contract. It is probably worded in a way that can be interpreted in many ways (damn lawyers..sorry Johnny but it is true for the most part). We also don't know what the label "advanced" Axl and how much Axl has put in of his own money. I think he wants out and wants out now. On a side note, it is funny how Bucket dropped the Gnr board....he obviously is not too pleased with the current Gnr situation.  

True, but let me say this: I have never, ever, ever heard of a contract where the label did not own the studio masters.  Maybe there's been one....maybe someone can point out one..but I've never heard of one.  It's considered collateral against the advance and expense of studio time.  We can reasonably assume that the label owns the masters, without evidence to the contrary.

In addition, it's true, we don't know what the studio advanced GnR...but it really doesn't matter.  ANY advance, no matter how small or large, would do.

Now, whether Axl wants out or not...I'm not even going to speculate.  I'll agree, the legal action could certainly lead t that.

I think Nikki Sixx and Motley Crue got to keep and own all their masters when they left there label - thats why the re-issued them all the first time around.

Again, negotiated as part of the dissolution of their contract.  They bought the material from the label as part of that settlement.  What I'm saying is that no label contract, that I know of, has the artist owning the masters.  There have been a number of artists who, upon disolving a contract with a label, have negotiated ownership of their material as part of settlement.  That's entirely different.

[Izzy]

Pathetic, truley pathetic

They wait till its released - and then protest. Who are they trying to fool?

Even we have known about the GH for months and they choose now to object. This is pathetic.

[//JK75]

I think this could be really bad !! At this point, it seems to be another CD delay..
This is near to be the end if CD isn't released this year.

[Sino-lieS]

Pilferk,

I know your probably tired of  crazy questions but....

I have a one:

IF the label owns the masters can they just release it without the band?
I know they must be fed up with Axl taking so long, so is this a possible scenario. Obviously it sounds crazy, but is it legally allowed? And in this case you probably would have no tour or anything like that - just Chinese Democracy in stores, which would still sell millions.

Thanx!

[jarmo]

IF the label owns the masters can they just release it without the band?

Maybe GN'R has the final say in what's released and when.

If Geffen can release whatever they want, why didn't they release some new/unreleased tracks instead of the Greatest Hits?



/jarmo

[Sino-lieS]

This sounds terrible to say but....

what if they don't have the masters yet!?

ugh I'm confused and depressed !

[badapple81]

"The best way to make something popular is to ban it."

I don't know, maybe I'm just a cynical MF'r, but this looks like a publicity stunt. As someone already mentioned, alot of people who normally wouldn't have purchased this release will now buy it to have it in case it does get pulled from the shelves.

I know we have been hearing about the internal discontent over this for a while now, but it still seems like a publicity stunt. Just my opinion.

I agree with you Kujo.  

I would hardly call press releases about shitty tracklists good publicity to sell an album!

[C0ma]

IF the label owns the masters can they just release it without the band?
I know they must be fed up with Axl taking so long, so is this a possible scenario. Obviously it sounds crazy, but is it legally allowed? And in this case you probably would have no tour or anything like that - just Chinese Democracy in stores, which would still sell millions.

Thanx!

You're assuming that Geffen thinks CD will sell millions. With the exception of a few thousand hardcore internet fans, how many people do you think are going to lineup to buy CD. Everyone is declaring this album an instant masterpiece without ever hearing any of the material (except for a handful of song played live, which might not even be on CD)

[pilferk]

Pilferk,

I know your probably tired of  crazy questions but....

I have a one:

IF the label owns the masters can they just release it without the band?
I know they must be fed up with Axl taking so long, so is this a possible scenario. Obviously it sounds crazy, but is it legally allowed? And in this case you probably would have no tour or anything like that - just Chinese Democracy in stores, which would still sell millions.

Thanx!

Right now? No, at least not if the contract is "normal".  Artists usually have an approval process built into the contract.  Until the artist approves for new material to be released, it can't be....I would expect, given Axl's penchant for control, that such a clause is included in their contract.  I can't be sure, obviously, but it's pretty standard stuff, especially for established artists.

If there's a contract dispute and Axl loses? Possible, but not likely.  Most likely, they'll have to vault the material or, alternately, negotiate with Axl for Axl (with the possible backing of another label, financially) to buy the masters back.  Now, that's not to say it would be impossible. If the judge sided with Geffen, and found Axl to be in significant material breech of contract, AND found  that there was significant enough damages done to the label by Gnr that the only way the label could recoup was via a release (or string of releases), they could grant Geffen complete (and there is a latin phrase used for this, but I can't, for the life of me, remember it) rights to everything recorded.  That would be unusual for the courts to do, but not out of the realm of possibility.  Were that to happen, Geffen could release any part of the material whenever it deemed worthy.  I find that scenario unlikely.....but it does bear mentioning.

[Sino-lieS]

Yeah thats what I was thinking...If the courts sided solely with the label and GNR split then material could be released.

Thanks very much!

[pilferk]

IF the label owns the masters can they just release it without the band?
I know they must be fed up with Axl taking so long, so is this a possible scenario. Obviously it sounds crazy, but is it legally allowed? And in this case you probably would have no tour or anything like that - just Chinese Democracy in stores, which would still sell millions.

Thanx!

You're assuming that Geffen thinks CD will sell millions. With the exception of a few thousand hardcore internet fans, how many people do you think are going to lineup to buy CD. Everyone is declaring this album an instant masterpiece without ever hearing any of the material (except for a handful of song played live, which might not even be on CD)

True. Sales will depend on the strength of the material.  That being said, given The Blues, CD, and Madagascar, I think it's safe to assume the material is relatively strong.  I don't know that I would say it's an instant masterpiece, but I would say that, given what we've heard, it's at least headed in the right direction.  That being said, you're right: We're all assuming...

[HoldenCaulfield]

Well, I think Axl is doing the right thing, and I really doubt this should have any negative effect on the release of 'Chinese Democracy'.

[SLCPUNK]

Pathetic, truley pathetic

They wait till its released - and then protest. Who are they trying to fool?

Even we have known about the GH for months and they choose now to object. This is pathetic.

Just because WE found out about it now, doesn't mean that the process has just started now.

[kupirock]

Geffen is promoting the release quite heavily. At least more than the band approved release Live Era in 1999.



/jarmo

But remember that when Live Era was released there came 2 "new" videos out too... It would be cool to see new gnr videos this time too

[Doc Emmett Brown]

- If, and I say if, CD was planned for release before Rock In Rio then why did Geffen press ahead with the Greatest Hits

I think the answer lies in your "if".  I can just see Geffen telling the courts that since CD isnt coming out, and Contraband is, they can cash in on the hype by releasing GH.
And yet.. they spelled Appetite wrong!  I'm so confused  

And herein lies my last question. Can Axl afford to drag this out any longer?

I was wondering the same thing.  He has lost so much credibility in the past few years.  But he could regain it all back.  I suppose that's why I keep waiting, and waiting.

[grumpy young man]

This just confirms what I've been thinking since hearing that a hits cd was being released:  It ain't coming out in the US.  There has been ZERO promotion.   That is unheard of for an album of this magnitude.   Yes, I know the tracklist sucks.  Like many of you, I emailed the geffen dude to tell him so.   That doesn't change the fact that this SHOULD be a huge event.  At least 8 or 9 of the songs are among the biggest of the last 20 years.   This thing, with promotion, would sell like a motherfucker.   At the very least, a million by the end of the year.   Several million over the next few years.   I haven't seen any advertising...no internet, no television, no radio promos, no magazine ads.   At the very least, you always see magazine ads...you know, the ones that take up half a page.   No ads in Rolling Stone, Spin, etc.  

Also, no offense to those of you outside the US, I don't think any of the gnr guys, new or old, really cared that much about this cd being available in Europe.   There are so many miscellaneous legal, semi-legal, and bootleg releases floating around outside the US that a few thousand copies of this one wouldn't change anything.   Like it or not,  this is an American band  (no...not Grand Funk Railroad and the release would probably not be considered official by most if it didn't come out in the US.

As far as the press release,  I have to see that as what we've all been asking for...news regarding the new record.   We've all been complaining that there's been no communication from the band.   Well, right there in the press release it says Axl is "concerned that not only will their audience be misled into believing that the planned compilation is an authorized release but that it will hinder the release of the band's long awaited new studio album CHINESE DEMOCRACY."

I didn't really give that line a 2nd thought at first but think about it.


Doesn't that reveal a couple of things?

1.  There is a studio album coming out.

2.  Axl is still firmly in control....good or bad.



I can't help but see both of those as positives...and I'm as skeptical as they come.


After reading this info,  I see the following happening:

Greatest Hits will NOT be released in the US.   Axl will have to prove to the judge, however, that HE is not in breach of contract for this to happen.  

Guns N' Roses will be at Rock in Rio @ Lisbon and likely hit 5-7 other festivals and one-off dates outside the US.   Chinese Democracy will be released sometime during these dates.   Sales and airplay (radio, internet, and videos) will determine where and what venues the band will hit in the US.   I can't imagine any US dates before September or October.   I don't see them being on any soundtracks.   Hell, I don't even see them releasing singles as that is a dying market.   Legal downloads, yes....traditional singles, no.   Beyond that, only the success of the album and early dates will determine Axl's intentions for this version of Gn'R.


That's it.  That's my speculation.  My wild un-educated guesses.  There are no facts above.   Have I covered my ass enough?   haha....

[grog mug]

I'm just glad this press release mentioned SOMETHING about CHINESE DEMOCRACY.  Maybe this means Axl will have his way with the new album and release it right around RIR4 or we will not see it EVER!

[Timothy]

I don't see the Cd coming out before Rio and now I don't Know if it will ever come out now.  

[AxlGunner]

This just confirms what I've been thinking since hearing that a hits cd was being released:  It ain't coming out in the US.  There has been ZERO promotion.  That is unheard of for an album of this magnitude.

not true. i live in new york city and was walking around a bunch this weekend running errands, and I saw a bunch of big signs and posters for the GH cd plastered all over the place on walls and by the sidewalks and such. I took a photo of one on my digital cam- I'll try to get it up on the site soon. But yea, I definitely saw them all over the city, which i was surprised at- but it shows that there is a good amount of promotion going on in the US. i dont think they'd bother putting up posters all over the city if it wasnt going to be coming out.