NYC Review

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Axl could sound even more Amazing live if he would just stand still but he likes to run around and that does not come across good when you are singing live.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

It's not "cool" to like Guns and it hasn't been for a while. I am only 25, so i am not too aware of the musical landscape pre-80's (sad, i know), but i am smart and acute enough to try to stay on the pulse, and guys, it aint GnR!  

Agreed.  But I believe that whatever few fans Axl has left are aware of this.  They would have to be really obtuse to not know it.   But one thing this board has shown me is the general perception of GNR fans as 'New Jersey' types is completely false.  I have encountered some witty & intelligent people.  You post here and you dont consider yourself obtuse, do you?

Jizzo, with all due respect, where do you live? Because certain areas of the country are more known for the arts (new york in particular- it's the cultural capital of the country) Detroit as well, LA too. No offense, and i don't know where you live, but just because Guns N Roses is hot where you live, does not mean it is popular overall. I mean, shit, there are parts of this country that aren't aware that the 80's are in fact over!

Jizzo lives in LA - hence his Roxy t-shirt     If he says that it's cool to like oldGNR, then it must be attributed to VR and not nuGNR.   In that sense, I truly appreciate what Weiland can do for this band.  I hope to become a true fan of him once I hear Contraband.

[badgirl]

Key word there being "some" (witty and intelligent people). No offense, but it seems to me that the majority of rabid fans are neither. Moreover, i am far from a typical GnR fan so i wouldn't use me as the example.
We are free to disagree about this, but from having been at the MSG show and this VR show, and seeing the people who get their early, stay in line for days (thus, the die-hards), i think the "new jersey" (and even THAT is generous) assessment is right on.  
It's funny, because i often say that Axl Rose would never want to hang out with the people who worship him the most. Does anyone remember that article (posted here) where he comments that for every 10 people's hands he shakes, 3/4ths of them try to pull him in... And how annoying that is to him (paraphrasing greatly here).

[Falcon]

I was a little brusque in my last post to you - sorry about that, but I cant let you get away with a "well-said Falcon".  I know you're a Guns/VR fan or else you wouldnt be here, but I distinctly remember you describing his guitar work as '9 minute opus butt rock' or something to that effect.  That's a bit on the contemptuous side, dont you agree?  

Sure.  Guilty as charged.  I do not enjoy that era of GNR whatsoever.  I understand why some do, just not my taste.

Not the "Joe Perry-esque" comment though.  Nothing wrong with that at all, Slash just seems to have moved from that style with VR.

It is sad & pathetic that GNR's music should be essentially forgotten due to this battle.

I don't think it's forgotten, just not revered, not regarded seminal.

Notice when there's positive GNR mentions/footage etc, it's always AFD related.  The Illusions are never cited, hell, not even mentioned when discussing the GNR legacy.

Are you saying that if VR gets airplay on a KXYZ modern rock station, then people will obediently swallow VR as 'one of them'?  

Not necessarily.  However, it does get them to an audience they must crack to have any amount of success in todays musical landscape.

For all their talk about dissing the Rockstar persona, if these punkers & hipsters embrace VR it just shows that people do want (and need) the rockstar in music.  Because without one, you end up with someone like Fred Durst.  

Agreed.

To say VR will be the "next big thing" is a bit short-sighted, but the mere fact they can recreate themselves in a manner in which they're taken as a different entity and find success in a different fanbase is a great accomplishment.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Key word there being "some" (witty and intelligent people). No offense, but it seems to me that the majority of rabid fans are neither. Moreover, i am far from a typical GnR fan so i wouldn't use me as the example.
We are free to disagree about this, but from having been at the MSG show and this VR show, and seeing the people who get their early, stay in line for days (thus, the die-hards), i think the "new jersey" (and even THAT is generous) assessment is right on.  
It's funny, because i often say that Axl Rose would never want to hang out with the people who worship him the most. Does anyone remember that article (posted here) where he comments that for every 10 people's hands he shakes, 3/4ths of them try to pull him in... And how annoying that is to him (paraphrasing greatly here).

Your last comment about Axl was interesting... I truly wonder how he feels about us.

One thing I'd like to add is that while you may or may not be correct in your assessment of the American fans as being the 'New Jersey' type, it is not fair to say that of the international fans.  They have an entirely different perspective on music than what we see in the US.   It may be that they are less worried about being hip and punk than just liking decent music regardless of the public perception of the band.

[GypsySoul]

Source: NEW YORK POST (newspaper), Friday, May 28, 2004
ROCK REVIEW
VELVET REVOLVER

Iron fist in Velvet?s glove
By DAN AQUILANTE

ANYBODY who was looking for Guns N? Roses II at the New York City debut of Velvet Revolver would have walked out of the Roseland Ballroom Wednesday sorely disappointed.

Although the majority of VR?s crew are ex-Gunners - Slash, Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum - this band, which features former Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland as its axle, definitely has a personality all its own.

Together, these boys made music with an old-fashioned heaviness and aggression that spits in the face of modern pop.

This was music to band your head to - part metal, part industrial, edged with a sense of danger.

The bombastic arena ballads that GNR was famous for were MIA during this tight, 90-minute show.

This was only the sixth public performance VR has played, so it wasn?t perfect.  But nobody expected that.

The chemistry between the former Guns was intact, but Weiland, who in the past suffered from a bad case of lead singer syndrome, was feeling his way through the music.

Take the concert opener, ?Sucker Train Blues.?  Although it?s easily one of the top tracks on the band?s upcoming ?Contraband? album, Weiland projected the walking-on-glass attitude of a week-end guest who almost spilled red wine on the new white couch.

But as the show progressed, Weiland ditched his inhibitions, eventually turning in a riveting performance.

The turn-around song was ?Fall to Pieces? which the cavernously thin singer introduced by telling the fans he had just kicked heroin and lost his wife when he first heard the tune.

From then on, any sense of aloofness was gone.  Weiland sang back to back with guitar ace Slash ripping through tunes, he climbed the drum riser to get up-close appreciation of Sorum?s beats and he worked the front rows like the pro he is.

Guns fans were given a taste of the past with the oldie ?Used to Love Her? and a top-shelf ?Mr. Brownstone,? while devotees of Stone Temple Pilots were treated to ?Sex Type Thing.?

If Velvet Revolver gets polished by the rigors of the road, the band will become one of rock?s most dangerous weapons of mass distraction.
end


Source: DAILY NEWS (NYC newspaper), Friady, May 28, 2004
RUSH & MOLLOY
BY GEORGE RUSH AND JOANNA MOLLOY WITH BEN WIDDICOMBE
Photo credit:  LARRY BUSACCA WIREIMAGE.COM

THE HITS KEEP COMING: Steven Van Zandt took time out from whacking people to hobnob with Velvet Revolver triggerman Scott Weiland at a party for the band at the Hotel Gansevoort.

Band on the run
Some of rock?s baddest bad boys were up late Wednesday.  But, sorry to say, they were all behaving.

The evening started at Roseland, where former Stone Temple Pilot Scott Weiland and Guns N? Roses vets Slash, Matt Sorum and Duff McKagan unveiled their band Velvet Revolver.

After the show, Gina Gershon, Sean Penn, Andy Hilfiger and others moved on to the party Tony Theodore prepared for Arista chief Clive Davis on the roof of the Gansevoort Hotel.  Some got tired of waiting for the band. (Penn moved on to Marquee, where he hung with Leo DiCaprio and Gisele Bundche.)

When the Velvets finally did show (around 2 a.m.), people were checking their eyes - especially those of Weiland, who has battled heroin.  But a spy tells us: ?Scott seemed like an altar boy.  He was clear and sharp.?

Another source credits Davis with keeping ?four very volatile people together.  He?s a father figure they respect.?
end

[badgirl]

I wasn't saying that about the International fans, though i have to be honest, i am not clear on how people in far eastern countries relate to Guns N Roses... I know that music is without boundaries but i don't get how people who go to the shows barely speaking English (some, not all of them) can understand the lyrics (which is half of the listening experience). Perhaps it is the chaos and the rebellion they are responding to, but i still find that quite a narrow experience when you consider the depth of Axl's lyrics.

But, i have the utmost respect for European fans and their taste in music. I can only speak about Europe as it is the only other continent i have spent time in.

About Axl's feelings about his fans. I can't be certain, though i am quite confident in saying this, i think they appreciate and need the die-hards, but they wouldn't want to hang out with them.
Generally speaking, people are attracted to those who have their own life, their own interests. Most famous and accomplished people don't want someone gushing over them (at least, not forever). If Guns N Roses is your entire life, then that says something about the quality of your life and the kind of people that will be attracted to it, no? Again, i am not speaking of all Guns fans, but there seem to be quite a few who live and die by this band.

[Hung Well]

badgirl:

But that's really the state of the public perception today. It's not "cool" to like Guns and it hasn't been for a while. I am only 25, so i am not too aware of the musical landscape pre-80's (sad, i know), but i am smart and acute enough to try to stay on the pulse, and guys, it aint GnR!  

Hmm, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'm your age, and it definitely wasn't cool to like GNR during the bulk of the 90's.  However, over the last few years, I think this has changed decidely.  

I see kids today wearing GNR shirts.  Check out "trendy" stores like Urban Outfitters.  They sell GNR shirts right along side Eminem, Metallica, Rolling Stones, and Nirvana shirts.  Hell, I was in a bar the other night and It's So Easy came on--and people were singing along.

And did you see the VMA's?  They got a huge reaction, and despite a shoddy performance, were treated like gods by the MTV VJays (and even that chick Michelle Branch).  

I think it's definitely cool to like GNR again.


Falcon

I don't think it's forgotten, just not revered, not regarded seminal.

Notice when there's positive GNR mentions/footage etc, it's always AFD related.  The Illusions are never cited, hell, not even mentioned when discussing the GNR legacy.

I wouldn't say they aren't cited at all.  They'll typically have a clip of the November Rain video thrown in there...

But yeah, it's clear the Illusions aren't remembered as fondly as the AFD/Lies era by the media... I think only diehard GNR fans (like a lot of people who post here) regard the Illusions as highly as AFD.

[badgirl]

badgirl:

But that's really the state of the public perception today. It's not "cool" to like Guns and it hasn't been for a while. I am only 25, so i am not too aware of the musical landscape pre-80's (sad, i know), but i am smart and acute enough to try to stay on the pulse, and guys, it aint GnR!  

Hmm, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'm your age, and it definitely wasn't cool to like GNR during the bulk of the 90's.  However, over the last few years, I think this has changed decidely.  

I see kids today wearing GNR shirts.  Check out "trendy" stores like Urban Outfitters.  They sell GNR shirts right along side Eminem, Metallica, Rolling Stones, and Nirvana shirts.  Hell, I was in a bar the other night and It's So Easy came on--and people were singing along.

And did you see the VMA's?  They got a huge reaction, and despite a shoddy performance, were treated like gods by the MTV VJays (and even that chick Michelle Branch).  

I think it's definitely cool to like GNR again.

I am not disagreeing with you that in the 90's it wasn't cool to like GnR. I have maintained that all along. Furthermore, you cannot judge a band's popularity by the reaction to bar songs. I too hear the classics come out in bars when people are wasted and react quite positively to a little nostaglia. But they also jam that way when "Here I Go Again" comes on and you know they aren't out there supporting Whitesnake.
Furthermore, again, it depends on where you live. I am confident there are people in America wearing Guns N Roses shirts, however, they are not in the major cities (where the money is, where the tastemakers are) of NY and LA, and if they are, they are few and far between.
Appetite for Destruction is still a hot album. Always will be. Most everyone agrees that it is the shit. The band, on the other hand, is not.

[Hung Well]

I am not disagreeing with you that in the 90's it wasn't cool to like GnR. I have maintained that all along. Furthermore, you cannot judge a band's popularity by the reaction to bar songs. I too hear the classics come out in bars when people are wasted and react quite positively to a little nostaglia. But they also jam that way when "Here I Go Again" comes on and you know they aren't out there supporting Whitesnake.
Furthermore, again, it depends on where you live. I am confident there are people in America wearing Guns N Roses shirts, however, they are not in the major cities (where the money is, where the tastemakers are) of NY and LA, and if they are, they are few and far between.

Well, I think you are flat out wrong.  I live in Atlanta, but travel to cities like New York and Miami quite often.  

Appetite for Destruction is still a hot album. Always will be. Most everyone agrees that it is the shit. The band, on the other hand, is not.

You and I agree that AFD is remembered as a cool album.  GNR is remembered for AFD mostly nowadays.  

[loretian]

Furthermore, again, it depends on where you live. I am confident there are people in America wearing Guns N Roses shirts, however, they are not in the major cities (where the money is, where the tastemakers are) of NY and LA, and if they are, they are few and far between.

Well, Minneapolis isn't really in the same class of cities as New York or LA, but I wear my Guns N' Roses t-shirts around occasionally.  Granted, it's usually before I go to a (house) party, and after I've gone a couple of weeks without shaving, but I still think it helps complete a very "drugged and drunk" image for me.

Actually, aside from when I saw VR a few weeks ago, I've never seen another person wearing a Gn'R shirt here.  I really don't see Gn'R as ever being "cool" again, at least in that NY/LA way.  That's not to say I believe they could ever achieve mass popularity again, but I can't really see the "snotty, elitist" artistic types from NY/LA ever really accepting them (since the AFD era) again.   If Axl succeeds with his new Gn'R, that'll only give them more reason to despise him.

Of course, I'm saying this from a very "midwestern boy" viewpoint; I've never actually been to NYC and all my time in LA was spent doing other, non-music related things.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

badgir

I am not disagreeing with you that in the 90's it wasn't cool to like GnR. I have maintained that all along. Furthermore, you cannot judge a band's popularity by the reaction to bar songs. I too hear the classics come out in bars when people are wasted and react quite positively to a little nostaglia. But they also jam that way when "Here I Go Again" comes on and you know they aren't out there supporting Whitesnake.

Hey I go crazy when Here I go again comes on and I support the WHITESNAKE. Hell when I seen Whitesnake and my boyz the Scorpions last year on tour I was very impressed they can still belt out the good tunes.