will the record label prevent Chinese democracy from being classic!

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Its sad not dumb. Its sad that such a talented band ended quickly. But hopefully this new band will continue the legacy of gnr in thier own way. And hopefully 20 yrs from now peopel will say gnr had 2 great eras of great music. And crazy guy named axl rose involved with both.

Well, that's the hope we all have.  But that doesnt mean we cant doubt him like rational human beings.  I do believe I'm as big an Axl fan as you are with the exception that I dont praise every little action of his as something a genius would do.  Some of you on this board do just that.  As Falcon said, it's pretty goofy. 'night.

[younggunner]

A lot of things as I pointed out earlier.  Furthermore, unprofessional behavior on a stadium tour counts in the musical bin.  Unprecedented secrecy regarding the album is also musically-related.

I didnt mention his wife-beating incidents and all that shit because that's not musical.  It's his personal life.  If he wants to make Stephanie poop in a litter pan, that's his problem.

Welcome to the jungle...or welcome to rock n roll.....

Although i dont condone or think what Axl did in regards to his personal life with women "badass" I dont think we need to point it out. If thats teh case we need to point out all the shit old gnr did back in the day. They were not your clean cut band. Lets not forget that.

As for the concerts and stuff. Its cool. Hey if you dont liek waiting at concerts for him to show up, dont go. Axl does things his way. You have the power to choose what you will and wont tolerate.

[Falcon]

And finally, I suspect that he doubts himself more than I do.  You can bitch at me all you want, but in my mind he doesnt release the album and he doesnt do it solo because he doubts himself.  

I agree 100%.

Like the guy said on "Behind The Music", Axl's fight to make GNR relavent with todays musical climate has taken so long with the pursuit of the mythical perfect masterpiece that whatever was relevant at that particular time has come and gone, leaving Axl back at the proverbial drawing board.

[younggunner]

If the songs on CD are timeless, then that whole argument goes out the window.....4 yrs have past and im still listening to the new gnr songs. All of them. day in and day out. And each time they give me a chill or some kind of an emotion.

[Falcon]

Um has Axl been inactive during this new era of gnr? You mean to tell me he really hasnt been in a studio in the wee hours of the night  over a long period of time?

Of course not.  

There's just not much in the way of new material to judge his artistic merits
and if indeed that time away from the spotlight was well spent creatively.

[Falcon]

4 yrs have past and im still listening to the new gnr songs. All of them. day in and day out. And each time they give me a chill or some kind of an emotion.

That's cool.

Unfortunately, those same songs that bring you "some kind of emotion" on a daily basis inspire only one emotion in me.

Indifference.

[Fuckin' Gunner]

4 yrs have past and im still listening to the new gnr songs. All of them. day in and day out. And each time they give me a chill or some kind of an emotion.

That's cool.

Unfortunately, those same songs that bring you "some kind of emotion" on a daily basis inspire only one emotion in me.

Indifference.

Off couse, it's just different tastes, but I can still listen the new songs a lot and still loving them... you must agree that, if they are really b-sides, sure CD will be great.

[C0ma]

for anyone of u to even say that axl is in that company u should be fuckin immediately banned from this board and any GNR board

how the fuck can u call yourself a guns n roses fan and say some stupid bullshit like that

Look I wasn't lumping Axl into that category with Brett Michaels, I'm just saying the record industry and I'm sure the upper echelons of Geffen don't hold Axl in such high esteem as you do after 10 years of waiting for an album. Regardless of of your opinion of his writing ablility, things like the VMA's and the Concert No-shows tarnish his name. Also with the success of VR until he proves he can do it alone I think he loses alittle of his "most talented member" status in the General public. And after all it is the general public that make the difference in record sales, there are 5-6 major GnR boards like this, each one has about 3000 members (which alot of are cross board members) so thats like 10,000 fans. Those 10,000 fans aren't going to make Geffen money by fawning over Axl changing the musical landscape. That is why Geffen can and will do everything to make this CD as commercially successfull as they can. You can argue that Axl isn't going to let anyone mold his vision, but they can refuse to release an album full of 10 minute Epics. Then where is Axl?

Before he can break down walls musically, which I think he can and eventually will, he needs to become a Rock Star again. That was my point...... the fans and industry heads have to look at Axl like the biggest thing on Earth and right now they don't. I think it would be in his best interest to get CD out as fast as he can and make sure it is filled more with Radio freindly Rock songs than 10 minute Epics....he needs another WTTG or SCOM not a November Rain or Estranged. Even if he releases an 8 track EP of rockers then tours into the release of "CD" He needs his name back out there with a postitive spin before he releases a big record, right now everyone thinks of the bad VMA show, no shows, and lawsuits.

[younggunner]

You can argue that Axl isn't going to let anyone mold his vision, but they can refuse to release an album full of 10 minute Epics. Then where is Axl?

WHo said all GNR are doing are just epics? Last I looked the new songs are all short, except for Maddy and that isnt even that long....Im sure there will be 1 maybe 2 epics but other than that they will be regular songs...And I hate to tell ya but Axl is not going to sacrafice anything on this album.....

Before he can break down walls musically, which I think he can and eventually will, he needs to become a Rock Star again. I think it would be in his best interest to get CD out as fast as he can and make sure it is filled more with Radio freindly Rock songs than 10 minute Epics....he needs another WTTG or SCOM not a November Rain or Estranged.

Axl has said a zzillion times that the first album will be more of a rock album, and that the other albums will begin to take us into a musical journey. SO I think hes aware of what they have to do.

Tommy has said that the album will have a few anthem type songs, a few ballads, pop and whatver else....SO I think the first album will be a regular album....
Im really not sure where you are coming up with this 10 minute epic stuff.....

Even if he releases an 8 track EP of rockers then tours into the release of "CD" He needs his name back out there with a postitive spin before he releases a big record, right now everyone thinks of the bad VMA show, no shows, and lawsuits.

I completely disagree. They dont have to release an EP. All they have to do is finish the album, plan everything out and just release the single/video and begin the promotional blitz.

The key with GNR is getting this whole thing goin. Once that happens and the music is out there to be judged everything else will take care of itself. If the music is good then more positive things will come if not then as Tommy says...it will be a flop....

And btw the VMA show wasnt bad. It wasnt Axls best vocal performace but overall it was a kickass performance from the band and Axl.

[C0ma]

And btw the VMA show wasnt bad. It wasnt Axls best vocal performace but overall it was a kickass performance from the band and Axl.

I suppose it's all opinion based, but that was just painful to watch, the band was great, Axl was horrible. He was great durring the European shows just before and in the US shows after, but the VMA performance was unwatchable.

And I hate to tell ya but Axl is not going to sacrafice anything on this album.....

All the label has to say is take it back and fix it, we want (fill in the blank)..........
If he wants it to come out, the label is going to have to love it at this point.

WHo said all GNR are doing are just epics? Last I looked the new songs are all short, except for Maddy and that isnt even that long....Im sure there will be 1 maybe 2 epics but other than that they will be regular songs

We have heard 5 songs, but from what we have been told (rumored) songs like The General, This I Love, and CITR are all "Epics" and I would throw Madagascar and the Blues in the Longer Ballad category that doesn't do too well on the radio (for the most part)  

SO I think hes aware of what they have to do.

Is he?? For someone who is so aware of what to do he has been doing everything wrong an awful lot. If by "knows what to do" to piss his career away......then you are right.

I completely disagree. They dont have to release an EP. All they have to do is finish the album, plan everything out and just release the single/video and begin the promotional blitz.

I didn't specificly mean he has to release an E.P. first, but to sell an album that doesn't have more than just 1 or 2 strong radio singles....he has to have a name that the general public trusts........and right now they don't, and why should they. What has he shown the record buying public in the last 10 years other than failure after failure?? I don't want you to parrot back the argument that it Slash left in 96' and Duff left in 97' and Matt was fired......... In the long run that was all his fault. I also don't want to hear about how long it took him to put together a line up, because he chased half of the new members away also. It doesn't take ten years to write an album, and it doesn't take 6 years (98-04) to bulid a new band then write an album.

[younggunner]

but that was just painful to watch, the band was great, Axl was horrible. He was great durring the European shows just before and in the US shows after, but the VMA performance was unwatchable.

Relax dude it wasnt horrible and it was very watchable. Yes your right Axl wasnt his best that night. The opening howl of JUngle, all of Maddy and some parts of PC were his bright spots. It certainly wasnt unwatchable though....
The band was great and they were ferocious with the PC jam.

We have heard 5 songs, but from what we have been told (rumored) songs like The General, This I Love, and CITR are all "Epics" and I would throw Madagascar and the Blues in the Longer Ballad category that doesn't do too well on the radio (for the most part)

Just because they are said to be "epic" songs doesnt make it a 10 minute song. The people could say its so good because it has an epic feel to it.

We know absolutely nothing about the rumored songs so dont act like you know what type of songs they are.

The blues is a regular ballad type song. And MAddy is liek 6 min long. We all know they arent hit singles. Thats why we have heard them already....

but to sell an album that doesn't have more than just 1 or 2 strong radio singles....

How do you know they dont have 4 or more single type songs on the album?

What has he shown the record buying public in the last 10 years other than failure after failure??

Nothing other than a botched tour.....When the music comes out thats when we decide whether this band is a failure or not.....

I don't want you to parrot back the argument that it Slash left in 96' and Duff left in 97' and Matt was fired......... In the long run that was all his fault.  

Oh really? I wasnt aware everything is Axls fault. But if you say so ill play along....

I also don't want to hear about how long it took him to put together a line up, because he chased half of the new members away also. .

He chased half the new members away? Lets see Bucket,RObin, Fortus, Brain,Tommy,dizzy, and Pittman...Thats 7 band members. 1 has left....Someone needs to go back to school??? And MR Bucket might come back...ya never know

It doesn't take ten years to write an album, and it doesn't take 6 years (98-04) to bulid a new band then write an album

Says who?
Who are you to say how long it should take for some1 to take to make an album. Im glad you have acknowledged the fact that the new band began in 98. Like you said 6 yrs. And in that 6 yrs they have made 3 albums that they believe are to be as good as they possibly can be. Meaning in that 6 yrs they have invested their life in making as best of an album as possible.

Axl kept the name. With that comes responsibilities from a musical standpoint. He could have easily made a few new gnr albums by now with a shitload of playes. Instead he made sure it was a total band effort. And when that band formed they then began to make music that they hope will make some kind of an impact.

This album and band is a much highly anticpated project. You just dont release an album because  some1 says an album should only take "x" amount of time. There are album that have taken a shitload of time and albums that were done in 2 seconds....

Yea the wait sux, but atleast I know that at the end of the day, no matter how successful or bad this band will do, I know they put everything they had into this. And as a fan thats all I can ask for.

Yea you could be a lil bitch and complain and whine, and tell peopel how long it should really take, etec etc, but when its all said and done a fan could only ask and hope for a maximum effort....And as a fan of this band I know we have gotten that....

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Look I wasn't lumping Axl into that category with Brett Michaels,

Thats good because Axl can change with time while Bret still sounds like 80's Poison, not a bad thing but hes not gonna break anymore ground.

I'm just saying the record industry and I'm sure the upper echelons of Geffen don't hold Axl in such high esteem as you do after 10 years of waiting for an album. Regardless of of your opinion of his writing ablility, things like the VMA's and the Concert No-shows tarnish his name.

Yeah it tarnish his credibility, but I think that is also what makes him the Asshole that his hardcore fans love

[C0ma]

He chased half the new members away? Lets see Bucket,RObin, Fortus, Brain,Tommy,dizzy, and Pittman...Thats 7 band members. 1 has left....Someone needs to go back to school??? And MR Bucket might come back...ya never know

Josh Freese, Buckethead (supposedly multiple times), Robin (left out of frustration and came back), Paul Tobias (where'd he go, no mention of the man that saved GnR in quite some time)............Plus I'm willing to bet that Brain isn't far behind Bucket.

Just because they are said to be "epic" songs doesnt make it a 10 minute song. The people could say its so good because it has an epic feel to it

Sorry to throw that ten minute mark out there, but my point is an album of Estranged and Coma's isn't going to make the label any money and isn't going to raise the General Publics opinion of the band.

Nothing other than a botched tour.....When the music comes out thats when we decide whether this band is a failure or not.....

Until an album comes out they are a failure......every day that CD isn't on store shelves, is another day Axl wasted

Who are you to say how long it should take for some1 to take to make an album. Im glad you have acknowledged the fact that the new band began in 98. Like you said 6 yrs. And in that 6 yrs they have made 3 albums that they believe are to be as good as they possibly can be. Meaning in that 6 yrs they have invested their life in making as best of an album as possible.

You tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I mention new songs we haven't heard, and you are trying to tell me that they have made 3 albums??
Funny I don't see three albums. As of right now there are no albums until he releases something and proves he has been doing something over the last 6 years.

I'm an asshole for critisizing a worldwide televison performance that 85% of people tend to agree with me on, but you are obviously not "Retarded" for blindly praising an album (or three like you say) that hasn't and shows no sign of ever being released.

[younggunner]

Josh Freese, Buckethead (supposedly multiple times), Robin (left out of frustration and came back), Paul Tobias (where'd he go, no mention of the man that saved GnR in quite some time)............Plus I'm willing to bet that Brain isn't far behind Bucket.

JOsh was involved with the band in the very beginning stages. He has stated numerous times that he left because he knew that Axl was going to take a long time in doing this whole GNR thing. In fact, he has nothing but good things to say about working with Axl and the band....
Robin is here, thats all that matters.
And Brian isnt going anywhere...

As for Tobias. Um, he was really never in the band.
"...Now whether or not Paul was going to be officially on the album or on the tour that really wasn?t an actual consideration at the time. It was in the air as a possibility but Paul was a friend trying to help us and he had a huge respect for Slash..."

but my point is an album of Estranged and Coma's isn't going to make the label any money and isn't going to raise the General Publics opinion of the band.

Again, who said that CD will be an album of Coma's?

You tell me I don't know what I'm talking about when I mention new songs we haven't heard, and you are trying to tell me that they have made 3 albums??

Yes because it has come directly from Axls mouth. Im not saying they have 3 completed albums. All Im saying is that they have worked on a variety of material that will be put into several albums.

As of right now there are no albums until he releases something and proves he has been doing something over the last 6 years.

I know because they have been doing nothing over the past 6 yrs  

but you are obviously not "Retarded" for blindly praising an album (or three like you say) that hasn't and shows no sign of ever being released.

In GNR I trust  

[ShotgunBlues1978]

I doubt Geffen is going to keep GnR from releasing the album they want. Guns N Roses has made probably close to a billion dollars in worldwide sales for Geffen, and they've never been kept from releasing the albums they want to release before, why would they now?  It just doesn't make sense.  This album, provided it is a good album, will sell at least a two or three mil in the US and the same overseas, GnR has such a huge and loyal fanbase that unless the album is bad, it's going to sell a lot of copies.  I don't see, given Geffen's track record with GnR, the censoring or prevention of releasing the album Axl wants to release.

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Sorry to throw that ten minute mark out there, but my point is an album of Estranged and Coma's isn't going to make the label any money and isn't going to raise the General Publics opinion of the band.

That's very true. It would be nice to see one or two on CD, those long tracks, are unfriendly for radio and unfriendly for TV.

[HoldenCaulfield]

Some of you act as if Axl is sworn by blood to release stuff. It's his life, if he wants to take 5 years for an album (which is what it has really been, not no 13 years).  He's not a bad person just because he hasn't released the album. Just be patient, we'll hear it when Axl wants us to. There's no use in bashing him, because if the album came out tomorrow, you'd be lining up to suck him off.

[ppbebe]

So, whose side are you on? The artists and their arts or the record company and its shareholders?

[C0ma]

So, whose side are you on? The artists and their arts or the record company and its shareholders?

Right now I'm on my side, and I want an album.

but you have to understand that the music industry is a business, Geffen isn't paying Axl 13 million dollars to fund Chinese Democracy so he can feel fufilled by sharing his vision with the world. They gave him 13 million dollars in hopes of making 10 times that back over time. After a while Geffen has to insure that they are going to get their money. Do I think it's right?? Do I want to see Axl put something out that his heart isn't into?? No and No, but the point of my original post was to point out that Geffen has the right to expect Chinese Democracy is going to make them money. And if they don't like what they hear from the "CD" sessions, they can make demands that the material be fixed to their liking... does Axl have to comply?? No, but that will just further delay the release and possibly cause a contract dispute and settlement of the 13 million.

[shaun]

Radio friendly, well Madagascar and The Blues have zero bad language in, so I guess they qualify  

Oh, animated gif, woman on bench with her boobs on show:
http://www.truecolor.741.com/00/SUDEKI.HTML
see near bottom of screen