Just imagine how good it must feel....

[Booker Floyd]

I meant, carry the band individually on their shoulders...I hate to turn this into a Slash vs Axl thread but do you actually think any of those guys can single-handedly carry a band like Rose is attempting now. The truth is, they can't....am I being biased? Not at all...just looking at their solo efforts.

But whats the point of even discussing the prospect?  Its completely pointless.  And Axl is hardly the musical superhero you seem to think he is...Not only has he had tons of assisstance in making his record and carrying on as "Guns N' Roses," but hes had relatively little success doing so.  His biggest success would probably be the shows hes played, and all have been done with material written by the old band.  

Do you think that writing a bass line or a drum fill can even be compared to writing the lyrics of a song?

 

Yes?

But I maintain that its stupid to make such comparisons because each member of a band has an important role in creating music, and thats what they do.  So nonsense such as "Can Slash write great lyrics?," "Well, can Axl create a classic guitar solo?" are worthless.  And I hope that everybody has enough sense to know that I wasnt really making such an argument, just using it as an example to show how wortless the comparison is.

By they way, Rose is basically singlehandedly carrying a huge name on his shoulders, dealing with pressure by himself which is much greater than what any of the VR guys get put on them.

So what?  At this point, ask yourself, "What is my point?"

Oh please, you mean to tell me Slither is a strong single?

 

Yes?  And its enthusiastic response from print and radio hints that I might not be alone.

If you think so, fair enough...this does not change the fact that the media will be alot less harsh on VR than on Axl, regardless of the quality of his songs.  

Yes, they will be less harsh on VR, but thats mainly because theres generally less to be harsh about.  Axl does have the burden of criticism, but you cant say its completely undeserved.  As for "the quality of songs" angle...thats unfair, since the opportunity hasnt even been presented.  

[providman]

By they way, Rose is basically singlehandedly carrying a huge name on his shoulders, dealing with pressure by himself which is much greater than what any of the VR guys get put on them.

He isn't singlehandedly carrying shit. He's turned into a joke, a laughingstock.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

And the thread gets decidedly more stupid...

It's not just stupid, it's stoopid.  Stoopid is a whole another level of stupidity.  

You ever consider that theyre not criticized for "Slither" because not everybody shares the same opinion of as you?  Then again, most dont harbor the same biases that you do.  Those who do have criticized the song, as have many real VR fans, so you got yourself another argument that doesnt hold weight.

That's right.  Many VR fans have expressed their opinions about the songs we've heard, but it doesnt make them any less of a VR fan just because they offer some criticism.  They wont be irrationally branded as haters for it.

But as a nuGNR fan, what to do now except respond to W 23 Axl's threads?  After all, there's not much going on unless you count Dizzy Reed's solo dates, and Robin's new look.  

[Captain Obvious]

You can't dismiss his effort as a failure until something is released. When I have the CD in my hands and I feel it is a dissapointment, I will be honest about it and we will have this discussion again. As far as Axl being the laughingstock:  the only reason Slash's Snakepit, Adler's Appetite, etc were not laughing stock is because hardly anyone cared.

We can go on for hours but it all comes down to this: I have alot more confidence in Axl Rose than in all of the previous members combined (excpet maybe Izzy) when it comes to releasing material.  Yes it might take over ten years to create but if I had the option of waiting 5 more to hear Chinese Democracy or settle for anything VR makes right now, I wouldn't have a hard time deciding.  This said, I see no reason why Axl Rose could possibly be jealous of VR.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

if I had the option of waiting 5 more to hear Chinese Democracy or settle for anything VR makes right now, I wouldn't have a hard time deciding.  

Maybe we will all be waiting another 5 years for CD - who knows.  

But I dont think of VR as settling for something less or sub-par.  Perhaps you do, and you're entitled to your own opinion.

This said, I see no reason why Axl Rose could possibly be jealous of VR.

Agreed.  I dont think he is jealous of VR either.  This is just the product of W 23 Axl's deranged mind.  Hence, the stoopidity of this thread.

[Booker Floyd]

You can't dismiss his effort as a failure until something is released.

So I suppose we should just ignore the failure of the 2002 tour, the widely criticized VMA performance, the indifference to "Oh My God," etc.?  Hell, the fact that were halfway into 2004 and still have nothing is a failure in its own right.    

As far as Axl being the laughingstock:  the only reason Slash's Snakepit, Adler's Appetite, etc were not laughing stock is because hardly anyone cared.

No, its because Slash hasnt been involved in anywhere near the level of ludicrous bullshit that Axl has.  And he hasnt done it using the Guns N' Roses name.

We can go on for hours but it all comes down to this: I have alot more confidence in Axl Rose than in all of the previous members combined (excpet maybe Izzy) when it comes to releasing material.  Yes it might take over ten years to create but if I had the option of waiting 5 more to hear Chinese Democracy or settle for anything VR makes right now, I wouldn't have a hard time deciding.  This said, I see no reason why Axl Rose could possibly be jealous of VR.

A simple case of blind faith...good for you.  

[Captain Obvious]

Ya, that's exactly what Im talking about. I am sure alot of people would care if Snakepit cancelled a tour, or Adler's CD was delayed, or if Slash hired a crappy singer (Dover) that sounds like hes singing while hanging from a noose. But somehow, when Axl hires a talented guitarist that wears a bucket on his head, people just cant resist but take a stab.


This thread is all over the place, its even getting into the question of using the GnR name.  I can't blame people for feeling uneasy about the use of the GnR name,  but there are too many pros and cons that would take up another 5 pages.  

[Rebecca Duff Rose]

But......I actually prefer the smaller venues......maybe coz I am older......but I'd rather see an intimate concert than a big one with loads of people.

Yeah but if you get a full stadium it rocks because of the attitude of the fans, they are just so into it!
They go mad!
I understand ya point too though because it can get dangerous at big sell-outs n' your more likely to get spotted by DUFF if ya in the small areas!  

[W 23 Axl]

Hey COCKstar...

First of all, you seem to think I am bashing Axl. I fuckin love Axl AND the new band AND the new fucking songs! I was in CT and at MSG in 2002 and was about to drive to Philly when we all thought otherwise, for whatever reason (good thing). I've been the biggest gnr fan since the 80s. The only other cds I can ever even listen to is Zeppelin and Aerosmith, cuz nothing else can even comapre to GnR....ANY of the albums!!! Again.....COCKSTAR...you seem to think I am bashing Axl........ummm, NO. I still rather hear the new GnR over VR anyday. But atleast VR will be fan friendly and besides that, actually tour and release something (what a fucking idea)!

I was simply stating the obvious. We're all human... of course Slash, Duff and Matt feel good about getting together. In a way, they are showing the world it wasn't them who was crazy, it was Axl. (The Buckethead thing doesn't help this either)

Actually, the best was when Duff said it took them 2.5 weeks to record or write it or something like that. An obvious left jab to Axl's face.

Another point - It is true - no matter what Slash and VR do, nothing will compare to CD (IF IF IF IF IF it EVR comes out) There is just something about Axl that still infatuates me and I think millions of others. Problem is, he knows that, and takes his sweet little time - each day actually adds to his legend. There's been almost nothing but crazy shit going on, but there is still this optimism that SOMEDAY, SOMEWAY, the new album will come out.

Last point - I went back and read some old interviews and articles found on this site. If you read either the 89 or 92 (i forgot which one) Rolling Stone interview, Axl says he's doing regression therapy and he's getting as far back as being inside his mother's womb, and hearing what people were saying about her being pregnant, and how his father didn't want him, and the family didn't want him.

ok -- - - - -- I can understand the massive insecure feelings one would get from feeling that your own family doesn't want you even alive. Thats heavy and fucked up and must be amazingly hard to even begin to deal with.

however.........

anyone who thinks they can go back in time, sorta say, and actually LISTEN to what was going on while you were'nt even born yet (like that would change much), is absolutley wacked out. I kinda feel bad for him, we all go through crazy shit. That why this world is FUCKED up. But anyway, the point being, Axl is pretty fucked up to actually BELIEVE he's going back and hearing this shit, and that was 1992. Its fuckin 2004, he probably thinks he's Magic Johnson or Moses by now.

- glad to see my posts start off good discussion!

[younggunner]

And Axl is hardly the musical superhero you seem to think he is...Not only has he had tons of assisstance in making his record and carrying on as "Guns N' Roses," but hes had relatively little success doing so.  His biggest success would probably be the shows hes played, and all have been done with material written by the old band.  

He is a musical superhero. Hes just not a musical superhero to the general public like he was.
What assistance are you talking about? Aside from right after the original broke up, this band has been set since 98/99. From 95-97/98ish guitar players were brought in to work with slash and then when slahs left just jammed. The producers brought in are for particular songs and particular albums. Not just cd. This current band has been working on material since 99.

No shit the band hasnt had much success yet. But again has any of their efforts really meant to do well? Of course they thought and wanted the tour to do well, but one again they had no promotion whatsoever. The mtv performance didnt go well because Axl was nervous.
And you keep bringing up omg. It was never backed by proper single promotion nor did any other singles or albums follow it. Plus its a kickass song so i could care less....

Hard Rock Hotel, Las Vegas

I was referring to the 2002 tour.

I dont think Falcon wasnt looking for excuses..

No excuse dude, cold hard facts.

Bottom line: VR is taking the smart route.  Despite each member's checkered history, they are a new band, and they realize that they aren't going to start out at the top of the world

Just because you want to play in areans doesnt mean you think or want to be on top of the world. If your material cant fill up areneas then to me you are an average band. If you think VR will build fans by touring small clubs your wrong. The peopel that are buying these tix are stp fans and gnr fans. The only way vr and gnr for that matter will get new fans and begin to climb the top is if their material is good. Its a ssimple as that. No1 cares about rock n roll attitudes and philosophies. Thats why VR are sometimes annoying to me. Theykeep preaching this "badass, lets keep it simple, go back to our routes etc" attitude. GUys who the fuck cares. Let the music do the talking. I could care less about all that stuff. It has to be natural. let the material speak.

 Not everybody keeps tabs on what goes on with GNR like we at this site do.

Bingo!. Finally dizzy, you speak the truth. Now being that the outside public has no clue on whats going on with gnr, how do you expect them to sellout arenas without a single, video, album and promos?

Was it the smart for gnr to go on a out of the blue tour and play in all these small and big citites without any new material? absoultely not. wasnt smart at all. they should have just done a quick major cty tour. just to get the gnr name back out there.

We all know  the 2002 tour was a failure in terms of sales etc. We all know gnr have fucked up in the pr department. BUt again, they havnt exacetly set themselves up for success yet either. And its not making excuses. They have yet to release a single, a video,more singles,an album and a tour to support that album. Till they do that then to me it doesnt matter.

If the material is good people who could give 2 shits about gnr either way will embrace the band. It all depends on the material.

Same with vr. no1 cares about the philosophies and attitudes. people wnat good music. that other stuff just comes naturally.

Vr will go on to do clubs etc and probably headline festivals. Unless tehre material is a lot better than slither i dont see them headlingin there own tour. There potential for new fans is limited.

[Dizzy]

simply not true.

minneapolis-10,000, about 80 percent capacity
albany,ny 10,000... way over half
toronto- 16,000 nearly a sell out
london ontario-9,000 out of about 12,000
boston- 12,700 way over half
new york, ny-sold out
philadelphia 1st show sold out

And how many other shows did you not mention?  The official press report stated that Axl sold an average of 7,344 tickets in venues that seated 16-18,000.  So my statement was not inaccurate.

And I read that the Dallas show only sold around 6,000 tickets in advance, which is way less than half.

And it was listed in the top 10 highest grossing tours of that year

Incorrect.  Axl was #75 on that list.  He didn't even come close to being one of the top ten grossing tours.

[younggunner]

I still rather hear the new GnR over VR anyday. But atleast VR will be fan friendly and besides that, actually tour and release something (what a fucking idea)!

Gnr will be doing the same exact things vr are doing now! they will do all of this when they are ready to go ahead with the album.

Actually, the best was when Duff said it took them 2.5 weeks to record or write it or something like that. An obvious left jab to Axl's face.

Who cares. good for them. Axl kept the name so he has a lot more respnsibility. plus this is a highly anticipated album. plus tehy have been working on 3 albums. plus when you think about it. they have basically completed 3 "potential great" albums in only 5 yrs. Its a long time but not an absurd amount.

[Dizzy]

If you think VR will build fans by touring small clubs you're wrong. The peopel that are buying these tix are stp fans and gnr fans. The only way vr and gnr for that matter will get new fans and begin to climb the top is if their material is good.

I don't give a shit how great the material is, you're not going to fill arenas on your first tour.  That's what I meant.

Evanescence is a good example of this.  Their major label debut has gone multi-platinum, but they have gradually played in bigger places.  They have toured clubs and made their way up to 5-6,000 seaters.  Their one hit album was not going to fill arenas yet.

That's what I meant when I said VR was taking the smart route by starting small places, and having to work their way up (meaning via their material).

[matt88]

I don't think their exactly sticking it to axl, none of them(slash, duff, matt) wanted that band to fall apart and i think they're just happy for the first time in a while with VR

[younggunner]

I don't give a shit how great the material is, you're not going to fill arenas on your first tour.  That's what I meant.

sure you will. If your album is great old fans and new fans will come.

Evanescence is a good example of this.  Their major label debut has gone multi-platinum, but they have gradually played in bigger places.  They have toured clubs and made their way up to 5-6,000 seaters.  Their one hit album was not going to fill arenas yet.

Because they suck. Their album has sold millions because of that hit single. Not because they are a band everyone has fallen in love with. Lerts get real. Evanescence doesnt come close to vr or gnr.

My point is, if gnrs material is great they will easily fill arenas. They already have the name, and by that time they will have the proper promotion and new material. You dont build a fan base by touring. That was the old days. Times have changed. People will come if your material is good.

[HoldenCaulfield]

Screw you, pal. Velvet Revolver isn't going to be anything big, they'll be about Audioslave-level, which isn't bad, but definitely not "ruling the world" level, like GNR will be again...

[Axl4Prez2004]

American football fans should get this analogy...
VR is to GNR as Arena Football is to NFL.

Gimme a break!  I've said it before, I'll say it again, Blues and Maddy are brilliant, Slither is so-so.  I do wish VR the best.

[Falcon]

American football fans should get this analogy...
VR is to GNR as Arena Football is to NFL.

One could draw the same analogy as to Robin, Tommy and Brain
to.....

[Dizzy]

Because they suck. Their album has sold millions because of that hit single. Not because they are a band everyone has fallen in love with. Lerts get real. Evanescence doesnt come close to vr or gnr.

Your opinion of them isn't the point.  I just used them as an example.  And I've seen them live, and I can tell you their fanbase extends way beyond the success of one hit single.

people will come if your material is good.

People will not come just by listening to one CD.  NOBODY will immediately fill arenas with one good album.  NOBODY.

Screw you, pal. Velvet Revolver isn't going to be anything big, they'll be about Audioslave-level, which isn't bad, but definitely not "ruling the world" level, like GNR will be again...

Christ, another blind "Axl will rule the world" fanboy.  

[younggunner]

People will not come just by listening to one CD.  NOBODY will immediately fill arenas with one good album.  NOBODY.

Sure they will. So your telling me that gnr will not fill arenas when they go back on tour to support their album?

If the material on cd is great then itt will easily fill areneas. They filled half the arenas last tour soley on the gnr name. That was without any promo,singles video and album.

Great material will attract the kiddies and bring back other rock fans. areneas will be filled my friend.