Does "Time" exist?

[Dot]

Philosophically time does not exist since  it doesn?t go by/through us, we go by/trough it.

[Prometheus]

didnt they conduct experiments with an atomic clock and foudn that time actually goes slower in space?

yup they sure did, and what they done was sync. 2 atomic clocks on the ground to like 1millionth of a second then took one and put it in a plane and flew it around 50,000 ft for a while and what they found out was that the one that few around was slower tehn teh one on the ground... what it was meant to prove was that gravity can distort time.. or our concept of it....and now they are putting a satilite in orbit that will meausre how much and if at all gravity distorts space at all.. pretty cool

[Skeba]

Philosophically time does not exist since  it doesn?t go by/through us, we go by/trough it.

Who says that we don't go through time or that time doesn't go through us?

And philosophically it could be said that since the universe is infinite, and the number of planets on which there is life is limited, and when you divide any limited number with infinite, you get a number so small that it can be said to be zero, leading to the fact that every person you come across is just the product of your imagination... (thoughts of Douglas Adams) With that said, I really wouldn't put too much weight on what can be said philosophically.

[MCT]

Seriously though...it depends on how fast you're going...
If you're going at the speed of light (which you can't) then time become's a single point (i.e. the closer you get to the speed of light, the slower things appear to you).

So in other words................you're a relativistic fuck-head

[Miz]

Philosophically time does not exist since  it doesn?t go by/through us, we go by/trough it.

Who says that we don't go through time or that time doesn't go through us?

And philosophically it could be said that since the universe is infinite, and the number of planets on which there is life is limited, and when you divide any limited number with infinite, you get a number so small that it can be said to be zero, leading to the fact that every person you come across is just the product of your imagination... (thoughts of Douglas Adams) With that said, I really wouldn't put too much weight on what can be said philosophically.

That made absolutely no sense at all.

Why would you divide the size of the universe by the number of people in it in the first place?

And who says the universe is infinite?

Utter, utter crap.



And MCT....yeah

[Skeba]

Of course that made no sense. It's from "Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy", a science fiction parody that he wrote.

And I know, the universe - by most theories that can be said to have any physical evidence -  is not infinite, but keeps expanding at ever slowing rate, and by the time we're like really really old (I think at least most of us will be retired) the universe will start shrinking, which will lead to a sort of a reverse big bang, although by that time there's not propably gonna be a whole lot life left because entropy and what not.

The whole thing was written to make a point that basically anything can be said when you start thinking philosophically, and well.. because I wanted to amuse myself, and those of you who got the reference (might've been very few).

[Dot]

Philosophically time does not exist since  it doesn?t go by/through us, we go by/trough it.

Who says that we don't go through time or that time doesn't go through us?

every person you come across is just the product of your imagination... (thoughts of Douglas Adams)

1. like I said, we supposedly go through/by time..time doesn?t go through us. you need to read about it.

2. it is also said that the things you don?t see are not there until you see them. For instance, the street you live in does not exist until you see it.

[Skeba]

1. like I said, we supposedly go through/by time..time doesn?t go through us. you need to read about it.

This is just so that I'll understand... Could you give me examples of things that do go through us apart from some very very small things such as fotons (I think they're small enough). Or in what sense do you mean "go through"? And do we not "go through" lives as well - and you know where that would lead. Or is that splitting hairs?

[Doc Emmett Brown]

and now they are putting a satilite in orbit that will meausre how much and if at all gravity distorts space at all.. pretty cool

This experiment sounds really cool.  They want to measure how the rotation/spinning of masses  can also affect space-time.
Apparently, they have designed an immensely accurate gyroscope from a super-cooled spinning quartz sphere.  Very scifi-ish.

And... about your original question.  Did you mean it in philosophical terms, or in a more scientific basis?   Because what I see in this thread are scientific concepts like gravity, space/time mixed with philosophical statements, as well as the funnies.  

To Q:

I agree with you about time being equivalent to change on a certain level,  but I would be hard-pressed to establish any kind of proof without resorting to philosophical mumbo jumbo.  The reason being I am unable to quantify both sides of this equivalence.  The measurement unit for time is usually in seconds (microsecond, nanosecond, etc).  What are the units of measurement for change?  When we talk of change, we mean the change of something.  Change in mass [kg], change in volume [cubic meters], etc.   Are they equivalent in measurement units?  No.  There needs to be a conversion factor that expresses how the change of a physical quantity is a function of time.   In this sense we cannot say they are the same, or else the physics prof will dock points off.

And there is the issue of energy/heat.  You mentioned brownian motion.  As you probably know, this type of motion is dependent on temperature.  The colder it is, the less the motion, and we observe less overall change in the object.  We can set up experiments to show how temperature and change/decay are correlated.  

But how to demonstrate this with time?  We suspect that the flow of time (ostensibly in only one direction) has some effect on the change/decay of matter, be it mass, volume, etc.   To set up an experiment, we set out to prove the following two things:

Presumably if time stops, then all change in matter would cease, specifically change in physical quantities such as mass, volume, etc.

If all change (of physical quantities of matter) cease, does time stop?

I dont know.  If it is true, then we have proven the relation between change and time.

[MCT]

And I know, the universe - by most theories that can be said to have any physical evidence -  is not infinite, but keeps expanding at ever slowing rate, and by the time we're like really really old (I think at least most of us will be retired) the universe will start shrinking, which will lead to a sort of a reverse big bang, although by that time there's not propably gonna be a whole lot life left because entropy and what not.

You want a good book that compliments this thread?

One that is a great story, by a great author, that is a hard-science/sci-fi?

"Calculating God" - Robert J. Sawyer

[Dot]

This is just so that I'll understand... Could you give me examples of things that do go through us apart from some very very small things such as fotons (I think they're small enough). Or in what sense do you mean "go through"? And do we not "go through" lives as well - and you know where that would lead. Or is that splitting hairs?

You know how we say " wow! time goes by really fast!" ?
well, philosophically, instead of saying that we should say something like " wow! we go really fast through time!"....do you understand? it?s messy but that?s what philosophy says. we are the ones who move through time not time through us...time stands still.

[Skeba]

Yeah, sort of. But which philosophy? I thought there were many.

[Mal Brossard]

Time is money.  

Time certainly exists.  I saw it in the magazine rack at the news stand at the Copley T stop the other day.

[Jagged Little Pill]

I say no, because time is manmade, it is a measurement we came up with.

that's exactly right.
time does not exist.

[axls_locomotive]

I say no, because time is manmade, it is a measurement we came up with.

that's exactly right.
time does not exist.

time must exist, it is a human concept explaining part of the universe...its not like the universe said to itself, "hey what about this time thing, do you think we should have it?"..everything in the dictionary has been defined by humans relating it to the world in some way or another and time is one of them.  do planets exist? yes because we have defined what a planet is ..are humans sentient? yes because we have defined what sentient means..does time exist? it must exist because it has been defined...it may not be the exact way the universe works but from our perspective it explains part of our universe...

copyright is mine, PHd please  

[Doc Emmett Brown]

it may not be the exact way the universe works but from our perspective it explains part of our universe...

 

I think you hit a right note there.  A lot of concepts in science are models of reality.  But, as you point out, a model does not necessarily equal how the universe may actually operate.

I rememeber people asking our physics prof: Do electric & magnetic fields really exist?  Are there really patterns of field lines all around us?  It is just a model to explain the very real observations that Faraday made in his experiments.  

They exist in the sense that they accurately explain real-world scientific observations.  One could make the same argument for time.

Faraday was a cool guy.  I believe there is a museum in England dedicated to his work.  Maybe one day I'll get to visit it.

[Prometheus]

Random

this thread is open to what ever way one can articulate their concept of Time.. or the lack there of.

Alas it always comes down to this... "We can only believe what we can prove."

and in an odd sence whaen we say that "art imitates life, imitates art." Science is an art form where it is an interperation of human preception of Life and the world aropund us.

[Dot]

Yeah, sort of. But which philosophy? I thought there were many.

I don?t remember right now whose philosophy is this or if it?s just general philosophy...if I remember then I?ll let you know.

[Prometheus]

I say no, because time is manmade, it is a measurement we came up with.

that's exactly right.
time does not exist.

Thi to is the theory which I personally hold to be true.... However that being said how do you make sence of the changes in objects, and teh universe through the passing of "Time"? as i said above the only way that makes a beleivable sence of existance is our preception of "time", If time does exist however in a different context then what we preceive, would that make our measurement of "time" to be false and inaccurate? I say no, however if we were to beleive that time exists in a context other then our preception of time.. someting like that "time is static" not  "fluid", then I would have to be a fatalist.. and trust me I do not beleive in fate...

[gnfnrs1972]

Time does exist because Guns N Roses have not released a new studio album in a long TIME.