The GH story, the IRS connection, the possible future..

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

There's chaos in GNR world....          where there's smoke, there's fire.  

There's been 'smoke' for years.... it comes and goes.. usually from the direction of the latest rumour... (regardless of the source)

Even what is heard around in the business has been passed down and altered and colored by those it passes through.
And even what is heard and passed down somewhat accurately...  can be out of date within a short period of time
Things change fast in the business.  What is proposed and considered can be shot down in one phonecall.  

I think the chaos and atmosphere you describe is among the GN'R fan community - you yourself sound kinda frustrated...  because you are hearing this bad news ...  don't let it get to you darknemus...  like you said - it could just be bad info.
sure it could be an entire scenario that someone did in fact relate to someone else and that got passed down to your source... but still conjecture nonetheless.

anyway... i manage to keep my head up and not get bogged down in the chaos too much because ultimately I believe in Axl - yes, the very same man you say is the cause of all of this  

don't let 'em turn you
he hasn't REALLY done anything TO us now has he
he's been quiet
but there really isn't anything SO WRONG with that
when he has something to tell us he will speak
til then
keep yer head up dude  

[darknemus]

Oh, dont worry, I'm fully aware of how the story can change from person to person  Prime Example: The Bible - and there have been billions of others since then.

I guess I sound frustrated mostly out of a selfish desire to hear the damn material already - and on a strictly personal note, I'm really fucking pissed I missed out on snagging a copy of whatever was played on Trunk's show that night by a few hours.

As far as believing in Axl - I'm right there with you - I know in my heart of hearts that, once the music is out there, ALL OF THIS will go away - and the last 10 years, waiting wise, will become almost a non-issue.

-darknemus

[Acquiesce]

I can compare Axl to trent and maynard easily.
Even see how long it takes between tool and nins albums?
And APC doesnt count since its not manyards baby, its the guitarist.

And yes dark maynard does run off stage pissed off and throws his mike down.
At the tool show in boston he fucked up some lyrics and walked off stage and let the band finish the rest of the song by themselves.

Also how long has tapeworm (trent and maynards project) being in the works? Quite a long time.

oneway23 last time i looked i dont debate every topic and only post here about 2 times a day, i hardly post on any gnr boards right now since nothing is going on but bullshit like this post.  And if someone is going to make up shit in  a post like this, im going to call it bullshit.

Dizzys wife read this post and said this is the first she has heard of any of it, so what does that tell you?
Its bullshit. End of story.

Oh, come on, you are grasping at straws here. The point is Maynard is an active musician who rarely screws over his fans. He's human and flawed like you pointed out, but he knows how to behave like a proffesional. End of story. Stop trying to justify Axl's bad behavior by pointing out someone else's. It's so childish to say "well so and so does it so Axl can do it too." Give me a break. If you don't find anything wrong with Axl's behavior, fine, but please use a better argument to illustrate your point rather than using that 3rd grade excuse.

As for this thread, I don't blame you for not believing any of it because it's just rumors, but some of the things he says makes more sense than some of the crap certain people fall for time after time. Do I believe everything he said is right? No, not even close, but it does make logical sense that Geffen is highly irritated. Put yourself in Geffen's shoes and tell me how you could not be irritated waiting 13 years for the next GNR album.

[noizzynofuture]

I just want to publicly thank both darknemus and pilferk for putting in all the time they do to prove one way or another the many rumors that are thrown our way.

They may not always get it right the first time but they don't stop until they do.

Their posts are always interesting and they help a lazy GNR fan like myself find out whats real and whats not.

I also appreciate that they are not pro axl or anti axl but rather just objective.

Keep up the good work - it is appreciated by some of us.

[oneway23]

I'd like to second noizzynofuture's post and also  thank dark, pilferk, and all of our resident detectives on the board...relentless in your pursuit of any info, and always on top of anything and everything...your posts, always logical and objective, at the very least provide some much needed spice and flavor to the frustrating world of GNR...kudos

 
joe

[estranged.1098]

Umm, dave, Trent doesnt just blow off shows, no-show events, yell at sound people, throw down the mike and storm off stage, tell Interviewers what questions to ask him, and attack audience members because they're taking pictures of him.  I don't think Maynard does, either.  Therefore, those bands fans don't have the issues with an extremely on the edge frontman like we do.

-darknemus

1) "yell at sound people": don't really know what you're talking about but a lot of people get really mad when they feel someone else's laziness is getting in the way of what they want to do and it's pretty clear to GN'R fans that Axl cares about doing things the right way.

2) "throw down the mike and storm off stage": same thing here... I haven't listened to the Patience Detroit mp3 closely but from listening to other songs from that night I got the impression the teleprompter was not working right that night. Same reason as your complaint #1.

3) "tell Interviewers what questions to ask him": this is BS. When the 'list of things that can't be asked' appeared anyone with a good mind remembered the interview where Axl talked about some of those topics. I thought you would know that.

4) "attack audience members because they're taking pictures of him": this again is purely misinformed. You don't know the whole story there. I've read something which I can't prove so I won't say here; send me a pm or search the web forums. But even if the story I read was BS you can't critize Axl on that because you still don't know exactly what happened.

And about "those bands fans don't have the issues with an extremely on the edge frontman like we do"... who here is perfect?
--
As for the contents of the original post: like most of darknemus' posts, very interesting read. All his posts would make a great book. Unfortunately, though, a book mostly of things that haven't happened yet.

As for me, I continue to believe GN'R will do a tour of "oldies but goodies" in Europe and only after that release the album. But we can only wait.

[darknemus]

1. The infamous "OK, NEVERMIND!" at Rio is the prime example I'm thinking of on this one.  If you watch the video, its obvious he's about to have a coronary.

2. He's thrown down the microphone a number of times - and, I'm sorry, but the guy's sung the damn songs 1000 times each -with the exception of the CD tracks.. can someone honestly explain to me the need for a teleprompter?

3. The pre-screened Interview stuff comes from a number of sources - one of the local DJs here, Paul Castronovo said they actually had an interview with Axl taped but due to 'certain content' in the Interview, Mr. Rose disapproved of its use on the air.

4. You're 100% right - I don't know exactly what happened.  However, I do know what the public perception is of what happened - and that's what sticks, unfortunately.

By the way, I'm not posting this to counter you or be a dick - I'm just trying to show that, when you step back and look at this stuff objectively - some of the behavior is much like that of my 12 year old nephews.. and yes, I'm the first to admit its one of the things that makes Axl so interesting.. And, yes, this is truly, Rock n' Roll.

-darknemus

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I'm sorry, but the guy's sung the damn songs 1000 times each -with the exception of the CD tracks.. can someone honestly explain to me the need for a teleprompter?

When did Axl start using a teleprompter?  

He certainly didnt use one back in their club days.  It's not very rock n roll  

They should just rehearse more.  And you're right about public perception - it can be more damaging than anything he actually did.

[Johnnyblood]

Prompters are pretty common with big-budget bands. Mick Jagger's been using one since at least Steel Wheels, if not longer. You will recall that when Axl and Izzy played with them in 89 they chose "Salt of the Earth", and none of the Stones even remembered the song. Granted, Axl usually sings from the same 20-25 songs, but the effect is the same - you focus on the performance and your mind can wander.  

[Miz]

I'm sorry, but the guy's sung the damn songs 1000 times each -with the exception of the CD tracks.. can someone honestly explain to me the need for a teleprompter?

When did Axl start using a teleprompter?  

He certainly didnt use one back in their club days.  It's not very rock n roll  

They should just rehearse more.  And you're right about public perception - it can be more damaging than anything he actually did.

Yeah, he never turned up to soundchecks or rehearsals, so that wouldn't have done much good.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Dark I dont look through rose colored glasses at all.
I Just dont belive all the bullshit rumors I read online unlike some people.
Like Axl said, the internet is as big garbage can, dont believe everything  you read.
And I dont.
Unless I hear something offical, i dont believe anything.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I can compare Axl to trent and maynard easily.
Even see how long it takes between tool and nins albums?
And APC doesnt count since its not manyards baby, its the guitarist.

And yes dark maynard does run off stage pissed off and throws his mike down.
At the tool show in boston he fucked up some lyrics and walked off stage and let the band finish the rest of the song by themselves.

Also how long has tapeworm (trent and maynards project) being in the works? Quite a long time.

oneway23 last time i looked i dont debate every topic and only post here about 2 times a day, i hardly post on any gnr boards right now since nothing is going on but bullshit like this post.  And if someone is going to make up shit in  a post like this, im going to call it bullshit.

Dizzys wife read this post and said this is the first she has heard of any of it, so what does that tell you?
Its bullshit. End of story.

Oh, come on, you are grasping at straws here. The point is Maynard is an active musician who rarely screws over his fans. He's human and flawed like you pointed out, but he knows how to behave like a proffesional. End of story. Stop trying to justify Axl's bad behavior by pointing out someone else's. It's so childish to say "well so and so does it so Axl can do it too." Give me a break. If you don't find anything wrong with Axl's behavior, fine, but please use a better argument to illustrate your point rather than using that 3rd grade excuse.

As for this thread, I don't blame you for not believing any of it because it's just rumors, but some of the things he says makes more sense than some of the crap certain people fall for time after time. Do I believe everything he said is right? No, not even close, but it does make logical sense that Geffen is highly irritated. Put yourself in Geffen's shoes and tell me how you could not be irritated waiting 13 years for the next GNR album.

I am not justifing anything, a point was made that maynard doesnt throw down his mic and walk off stage yet he does and i disproved that theory.
I dont see how giving an example when maynard has thrown down his mic and walked off stage when it was said he doesnt do that a 3rd grade excuse.
Grow up and dont be pissy because i proved dark or who ever said that wrong.

And again get your facts straight, Geffen has not been waiting 13 years for an album, stop making up stuff, it has only been since 1999 which is 5 years which might i add is how long it takes tool and nin in between albums.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

IF the day ever comes when Geffen drops Axl/GN'R THEN we can really talk about why...
... in the meantime, whats really hard to ignore is the FACT that whatever/however Axl does/has done... they are dealing with it.  And no one knows their reasons for that better than they do...  I for one can only assume that its because ultimately they see it to be in thier best interests to do so.  No one is doing anyone any fucking favors here.  The record company is not doing Axl any favors... Axl is not doing them any favors...  Its business between them.  As far as the fans - Axl does not owe us a damn thing... No guarantees have ever been issued...  If you are waiting for this album then thats your own damn decision... If you are pissed about havign tickets to a cancelled show - fine thats understandable BUT you must understand that THAT is all part and parcel of being a fan.  THE SAME WAY GEFFEN ACCEPTS THAT WHAT IS GOING ON IS PART AND PARCEL OF HAVING AXL/GNR ON YOUR TALENT ROSTER.

No one is forcing anyone to put up with anything.  No one is doing any one any favors here.
Its entertainment.  When BOTH Axl and Geffen agree that everything is in order the product will be made available to us.

I KNOW its difficult to put things in this perspective because for many of us we see it as so much more than entertainment.  But if you strip everything down to its most common denominators thats all it is - a commodity.

Axl/GN'R produce the product.  Geffen peddles it.  We choose to buy it or not.
For us hardcore fans it could come out a year or 10 years from now and we will still buy it - they don't need to 'sell it' to us.  They are preparing to sell it to the masses.  

And they ARE fighting a negative perception (regardless of the baisis for that)... they are very well aware of the controversy that surrounds the product they hope to peddle...  So who knows what it is that they are hoping to do to deal with that.  Could be that they are figuring that they will try and use Axl's 'reputation' to their advantage to gain publicity.
Could be that they REALLY ARE trying to piss him off so that he will speak out.

Motherfukers...  when i think about it...   ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY - that is what the art we love is reduced to in their eyes.  But hey thats the reality of things.  The record company has no heart.   I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU ALL CAN AT LEAST GIVE AXL THAT MUCH CREDIT.   HE IS ALL HEART.  This is his life's work for the past decade of his life.

Who here can attest to dedicating such an extended period of time on any one goal.
Other than raising my children and nurturing my marrige I can truly say that I have not.

So you gotta expect that this is a showdown.  A showdown between a cold calculating money making machine... and a man's blood sweat and tears and what he is or is not willing to sell or compromise.

as far as all the other stuff in this thread about Axl's temperment - so fucking what - i've said it before as have MANY others who are wise enough to see it - ITS IS ALL PART OF WHAT MAKES AXL WHO HE IS - you can't expect a person to only have positive passions... where waters run deep for love and creativity.. they also run deep for frustration and anger... and sadness.   Anyone who is capable  of feeing so intensely - is bound to experience it at both ends of the spectrum.

I've gone on longer than I intended and sorry for going off topic (I think!)  hehe
Bototm line...  obviously I have deep appreciation and respect for Axl and what he has exposed himself to (he doesn't NEED any of this shit)... what he has done not for us - but for what he has shared with us.

If Geffen is out to teach Axl a lesson... then I think they are really trying to fuck the wrong tree.  Its been said a million times - Axl is the rockstar that people either love or love to hate.  Eitherway  people give a shit - and will fork over the dollar for the priveledge to do so.

[killingvector]

axl is willing to commit career suicide in order to spite the label; i have no doubt about that. He has always severed ties with those he considers to be enemies.

there is one option that hasn't been mentioned; it is possible that the perception of the new band is so bad that the label demands axl reform with the old guys or be dropped.. this would be a demand well down the line, probably dependent on the failure of CD. It would be interesting to know what he would do, eat crow or not eat.

[Saul]

It's funny how none of you have on grain of proof saying axl rose is against this album. He may not even know about this album and for that matter he may be BEHIND this album.

Show me the proof axl is against this album. Now your speculation mind you..show me hard proof.

yeah , I thought so.

[killingvector]

we don't have a grain of proof that CD and its follow ups exist at all aside from five new songs. asking for proof of anything on a gnr board is asking for trouble.

[Saul]

Totally irelevant KV since we arent talking about democracy. We do have proof that the "hits" exist though.. promo copies popping up on ebay , press release from the label..a RELEASE date.

I say fuck it , I hope this album comes out just to spite axl. Hopefully it will piss him off a lil and get him off his ass and do something or just give up..one way or another.

Hopefully if he feels "helpless" and cant stop the hits from happening them he might just have a small glimpse of how the people in vancouver and philly felt when he didnt show up.

"aint it fun when you've broken up every band that you ever begun"

[killingvector]

there isn't concrete proof that axl is against it but there are rumors. Blabbermouth reported that axl is considering a lawsuit plus Mysteron said the band was against it six months ago. MTV / Vh1 picked up the lawsuit story as well. I don't think there is much doubt that the redhead does not want this to come out.

Asking for proof of axl's state of mind is irrelevent because he doesn't talk to us. We only get secondary or tertiary confirmation at best.

As for the album itself, the tracklist sucks. These are the mainstream "hit" guns songs; it does nothing for the loyal fans who have hung around this long, and give us nothing new except for a digipack cover and remastering. No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. it seems only die hard fans would be interested in a remastering but there are offering nothing more than just that. If they wanted to get new and old fans onboard then offer up something for each demographic. But instead we get a repackaging of old familiar songs from a band that doesn't exist anymore. Which is itself a problem.  The label must give the new guys their credit and not promote the work of slash and co when they chose to leave and do something else (which is actually the same thing as they were doing 10 years ago)

For a band with as few songs as GnR have, to put out a GH played by a band that doesn't exist anymore cries foul. this is a money making play on behalf of the label and not an opportunity to promote the artistry of the new band.

[Mutherfunker]

'rumours' is the word. Anyone could start them. I don't know what's going on, but I'm not convinced of the accuracy of reports on Axl's 'problem' with GH. Is he slightly annoyed, really considering legal action?, who knows really?

Where do these rumours come from?

@#$%Muther

[Saul]

"Blabbermouth reported that axl is considering a lawsuit plus Mysteron said the band was against it six months ago."

Well then , what more proof could we ask for?  


"As for the album itself, the tracklist sucks. These are the mainstream "hit" guns songs; it does nothing for the loyal fans who have hung around this long, and give us nothing new except for a digipack cover and remastering. No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. This band does not exist anymore. The label must give the new guys their credit and not promote the work of slash and co when they chose to leave and do something else (which is actually the same thing as they were doing 10 years ago)"

Again , you say the tracklist sucks..I say it rocks!! These are the songs the original GNR CHOSE to put out as singles!!! They ARE great songs! Thats MY opinion. It does nothing for loyal fans who've hung around this long because this wasnt created for "loyal" fans..this is a nice lil album for the non-hardcore fans a bunch of songs that WILL get some people hooked on GNR who probably never heard them before.

You say no new song , no promise of a new song? Well how on earth do you expect the label to put new songs on there? You want the label to learn to play and sing and record them thereselves?! Axl aint giving them shit... they cant just pull new songs from thin air. And how can they promise new songs when they probably dont hear from axl any more often then we do?

You say the label must give the new guys credit... credit for what exactly? They havent done shit all since joining GNR. One new song , OMG has been released. I liked it..but it wasnt a "hit" .... they tried touring , that bombed big time , they went on MTV and were redicled by everyone except us hardcore fans.

"No new song, no promise of a new song or album, or anything. This band does not exist anymore."

You got one thing very right there...this band doesnt seem to exist anymore.


"For a band with as few songs as GnR have, to put out a GH played by a band that doesn't exist anymore cries foul. this is a money making play on behalf of the label and not an opportunity to promote the artistry of the new band."

few songs? 4 albums jammed with great songs is more like it. The new band will have a hard time creating the body of work the old band did in such a short amount of time.

Money making play? I would hope it is...I certainly dont blame the label for wanting to finally make back a little money since axl hasnt made them a dime in years and years.

Promote the artistry of the new band?! WHAT artistry of the new band? Buckethead is the only guy in the band constantly releasing new music... you want the label to start sellimg prints of robins collages? Seriously , what artistry from this new band is there to promote..seriously..answer that.

I love the new band to death..I'm a staunch supporter but we aint hearing from them , they aint throwing us a bone..they havent spoken in over a year..they fucked up a tour and went home. And locked the door.

This GH album wasnt hurting anyone , nobody had to buy it..but one things for sure , that tracklist woulda won over a few younger people if and when they get a chance to buy it.

Just because me or you have heard all these songs a million times , just because we own the songs or dont think it's the BEST gnr songs dont mean squat. These ARE the singles GNR chose to release...

I just hope and pray it gets released.

As for the new band.. axl outta just put out an album or shut his fucking mouth about "you'll see it" "we'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs" & crap like that....