Here Today... Gone To Hell! | Message Board


Guns N Roses
of all the message boards on the internet, this is one...

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 24, 2024, 05:57:56 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
1228743 Posts in 43282 Topics by 9264 Members
Latest Member: EllaGNR
* Home Help Calendar Go to HTGTH Login Register
+  Here Today... Gone To Hell!
|-+  Off Topic
| |-+  The Jungle
| | |-+  Who Gives and Who Doesn't? - Conservatives donate more than liberals
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]  All Go Down Print
Author Topic: Who Gives and Who Doesn't? - Conservatives donate more than liberals  (Read 8851 times)
The Dog
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2131



« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2006, 02:54:56 PM »


He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."

He says this difference is not about politics, but about the different way conservatives and liberals view government.


very interesting article. obviously, this is a surprise to many.

the two points above i found particularly interesting.



That sounds like you took the article pretty seriously to me.

That, combined with the glib comment.....

I think Hanna was trying to point out the absurdity of the original article with his own absurd article.

 Your response (the 1st part, anyway) seemed pretty serious, too.  The 2nd part I assume might have been a joke...which is why I said what I did, giving you the benefit of the doubt.

As for having an "agenda"...and by that I mean a political viewpoint...I think previous posts prove you do have one and are not afraid to "push it".

BINGO (except the part about Hanna = a her.  HannaHat is ALL MAN!  ok hehe). 

The intent of posting this article was just to rile those of us non-conservatives up - all it did for me was a big ole'  Roll Eyes

Logged

"You're the worst character ever Towelie."
Guns N RockMusic
Deer Hunter
Banned
VIP
****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 911


I'm back baby, old school style


« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2006, 03:11:22 PM »

There's alot more credibility to this study than most of the AOL or other internet polls some of you site.  Most of the polls you people provide are the equivalent of Jarmo asking this board which band is the greatest ever and when Gn'R won, calling it valid and spreading the results.  I posted this article because it helps dispel the myth that "conservatives" hate the poor and do nothing to help them while "liberals" dedicate their lives to selfless causes.
Logged
Izzy
Whine, moan, complain... Repeat
Legend
*****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8688


More than meets the eye


« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2006, 03:16:02 PM »

it helps dispel the myth that "conservatives" hate the poor and do nothing to help them while "liberals" dedicate their lives to selfless causes.

But thats just the point, it doesn't....

Its sample is grossly unsound and am i the only one to notice that traditionally ''conservative'' support comes from middle to upper class voters = people with more money

So even if they did give more per person, even if that was shown - it would STILL mean nothing
Logged

Quick! To the bandwagon!
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2006, 03:20:37 PM »

I like this article better:

(By the way Randall, this was linked on the same page as yours but instead you chose the politally charged one, go figure)

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/HolidayTheme/story?id=2682100&page=1

Are Americans Cheap? Or Charitable?
Fighting the 'Stingy' Stereotype
By JOHN STOSSEL and GENA BINKLEY
Nov. 28, 2006 ? - There is a big focus on giving at this time of the year.

Do you give? Or are you cheap? I keep hearing that "Americans are cheap."

The New York Times asks in an editorial, "Are we cheap?"

"Yes," they say. Former President Carter recently said the rich states "don't give a damn" about people in poor countries. And when it comes to helping the needy in poor countries, U2 singer Bono says, "It's the crumbs off our tables that we offer these countries."

Crumbs because many other countries, such as Norway, Portugal and Japan, give a larger share of their wealth to needy countries.

The United States gave out $20 billion in foreign aid last year, but as a percentage of our wealth, we rank 21st out of the 22 major donor countries.

Actress Angelina Jolie is horrified by it.


"It's disgusting. It really is disgusting," she said. "I think most American people, you know, really do think we give more. And I know that they would if they could understand how little they give and how much more we can afford to give, absolutely, without even noticing it."



Generous Americans?

But wait a second. ? When talking aid, why just talk about what the government gives?

Jolie could look to herself as an example of the generous American. She gives her time and her money to charities around the world. So do millions of other Americans. ? America is not just our government. America is 300 million individuals, and their contributions far exceed what government gives.

America is anything but cheap.

Carol Adelman at the Hudson Institute has studied how much Americans give privately in foreign aid. She says it's a myth that Americans are stingy.


"We're one of the most generous people in the world, and that's because of our private philanthropy," she said.


Adelman published her findings in the institute's "Index of Global Philanthropy," which found that while the U.S. government gave about $20 billion in foreign aid in 2004, privately, Americans gave $24.2 billion.

On top of that, immigrants in America send about $47 billion abroad to family members and home towns. That's anything but stingy.


"Americans give abroad like they do domestically, through their private institutions," Adelman said.



After the tsunami two years ago, the U.S. government pledged approximately $900 million to relief efforts, but American individuals gave $2 billion in food, clothing and cash.

Many private charities could barely keep up with the donations.


'No Other Country Comes Close'

The fact that most of America's charitable gifts come from volunteers, not government, demonstrates that Americans are different from people in every other country.


"No other country comes close," said Arthur Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuse University. Brooks studies charitable giving and has a new book, "Who Really Cares: America's Charity Divide."

"The fact is that Americans give more than the citizens of any other country. ? They also volunteer more," Brooks said. "Americans per capita individually give about three and a half times more money per year, than the French per capita. ? Seven times more than the Germans and 14 times more than the Italians."

"Now, you might notice that these other countries have different average incomes or different tax systems," he said. "But even when you take that into account, Americans give 10 times more than the Italians. The fact is, that Americans give on a different scale than anybody else in the world."


The Men in Blue

Thank goodness we do because charity does it better. I notice the difference on my way to work because in my neighborhood, the men in blue -- that's what they call themselves -- clean the streets.

Who are they, I wondered? They say they are ready, willing and able, and they do this menial work energetically.

They're not volunteers. It turns out that they're former street people. ? Ex-alcoholics and drug addicts. The Doe Fund, a private charity, puts them to work while they try to teach them to be responsible and to stay clean.

One year after entering the program, most of the men in blue are drug-free and employed. That's twice the success rate of other shelters in the city.

William Hurst went through eight different rehab programs before this charity taught him the self-respect you get from work.


"I respect myself again, I'm drug-free. After I completed the drug counseling, they put me out in the field immediately. ? And to me, that's the most important thing, staying clean and working," he said.


I'm still not sure exactly what makes this charity so successful, but it clearly has discovered ? something.

I've never seen government workers do work like this -- with this kind of enthusiasm

"I enjoy doing what I do. It just keeps me motivated," said Allen Corey Funderburg, another trainee.

Nazerine Griffin, one of the supervisors and an ex-addict, said simply, "Private funders do it better."


Private Charities

That's why I donate money to that charity and to Central Park, where, full disclosure, I'm a director of the charity that's helped clean it up.

About 20 years ago, the park was in terrible disrepair. The lawns were barren and eroding.

Buildings were covered with graffiti. The government kept promising to restore it, but never did.

Yet now, the park is beautiful. Central Park is now the No. 2 tourist destination in New York City. ? Because our private charity now manages the park, and pays for most of its upkeep.

One more example.

In Namibia, in West Africa, a country ravaged by the AIDS crisis, many orphans were being neglected, even though the country got $161 million in foreign aid from the U.S. government.

A little church in Maryland decided it should help. Members of the Mount Zion United Methodist Church decided that they'd use their own money to build and fund an orphanage, The Children of Zion Village, in Namibia.

Today, the children, many of whom lived on the streets -- one little boy was found living in a tire -- are safe and smiling and going to school.

Now church members fly from Maryland to Africa to volunteer at the orphanage, and meet the child they sponsored.

"The children know who their sponsor is. ? And so there's a relationship there. We're a family," said Rebecca Mink, who runs the Namibian orphanage.

That's charity working the uniquely American way.

Regardless of what our government does, Americans are anything but cheap.

Americans gave $260 billion away in charity last year -- that's about $900 per person.



Copyright ? 2006 ABC News Internet Ventures
Logged
The Dog
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2131



« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2006, 03:23:49 PM »

Flagg, once again Bandita has exposed you.  Your agenda was so painfully obvious in posting that.

Logged

"You're the worst character ever Towelie."
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2006, 03:27:38 PM »

Flagg, once again Bandita has exposed you.? Your agenda was so painfully obvious in posting that.



I really don't agree with this topic anyway.  As I said previously I think it's pretty sad for anyone to discuss what they do give.  I find it even more sad that someone would post an article like this to fuel a political agenda.  I would like to think both sides of the coin agree that charity is worthwhile and also personal. peace
Logged
Guns N RockMusic
Deer Hunter
Banned
VIP
****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 911


I'm back baby, old school style


« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2006, 03:28:19 PM »

I'm not gonna lie, I think most liberals are all talk and little action (this board backs that up). ?I actually saw this article on digg.com, so I posted it here. ?I liked it because it hit on a point I argue all the time, liberals do little themselves becuase they want/believe the government to do it for them. ?They want more social programs (at the expense of the wealthy) so that they can feel better about themselves knowing they voted to spend someone else's money to aide someone they've never met. ?But in all fairness, I did not choose this article over any other. ?Again, i saw it on digg.com and posted it here.
Logged
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2006, 03:29:46 PM »

I'm not gonna lie, I think most liberals are all talk and little action

So you agree right there that you post with an agenda.

Screw peace and goodwill, lets just fight over nonsense like who gives more! Roll Eyes
Logged
Guns N RockMusic
Deer Hunter
Banned
VIP
****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 911


I'm back baby, old school style


« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2006, 03:32:15 PM »

Flagg, once again Bandita has exposed you.? Your agenda was so painfully obvious in posting that.



I really don't agree with this topic anyway.? As I said previously I think it's pretty sad for anyone to discuss what they do give.? I find it even more sad that someone would post an article like this to fuel a political agenda.? I would like to think both sides of the coin agree that charity is worthwhile and also personal. peace

Actually, doesn't this piece compliement my article.  It says that the goverment ran organizations (backed by liberals) suck at helping the poor while private organizations (backed by conservatives) in america are the most generous world wide.
Logged
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2006, 03:35:00 PM »

Flagg, once again Bandita has exposed you.? Your agenda was so painfully obvious in posting that.



I really don't agree with this topic anyway.? As I said previously I think it's pretty sad for anyone to discuss what they do give.? I find it even more sad that someone would post an article like this to fuel a political agenda.? I would like to think both sides of the coin agree that charity is worthwhile and also personal. peace

Actually, doesn't this piece compliement my article.? It says that the goverment ran organizations (backed by liberals) suck at helping the poor while private organizations (backed by conservatives) in america are the most generous world wide.

Did you read something in that article typed in invisible ink because it says nothing about political sides.  It simply states that Americans are very charitable as a whole.  You keep wanting to make it about sides, I wasn't aware that it was about that.  Funny, I thought it was about helping others.
Logged
Guns N RockMusic
Deer Hunter
Banned
VIP
****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Posts: 911


I'm back baby, old school style


« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2006, 03:52:00 PM »

I    WILL    EXPLAIN   IT    NICE    AND    SIMPLE   FOR   YOU    BANDITA.       Liberals support social programs and bigger government.  That means liberals would favor the government aiding the poor.  Conservatives traditionally dislike social programs and want a minimal government.  They rely of charity and private organizations to help the needy.  Your article concludes that the horse traditionally backed by conservatives helps the world's needy more than the horse backed by the liberals.
Logged
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2006, 04:00:17 PM »

I? ? WILL? ? EXPLAIN? ?IT? ? NICE? ? AND? ? SIMPLE? ?FOR? ?YOU? ? BANDITA.? ? ? ?Liberals support social programs and bigger government.? That means liberals would favor the government aiding the poor.? Conservatives traditionally dislike social programs and want a minimal government.? They rely of charity and private organizations to help the needy.? Your article concludes that the horse traditionally backed by conservatives helps the world's needy more than the horse backed by the liberals.

THE ARTICLE I POSTED SAYS NOTHING OF THE LIKE hihi

It's about Americans being more charitable than the Government, big deal who didn't know that?  Also a citation about how US Immigrants send money home to their families (are they all conservatives in your mind as well?)

I find it SAD that you take a nice topic such as charitable giving and turn it into a political fued. It really shows how low the "conservatives" are willing to go.
Logged
The Dog
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2131



« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2006, 04:08:15 PM »

I    WILL    EXPLAIN   IT    NICE    AND    SIMPLE   FOR   YOU    BANDITA.       Liberals support social programs and bigger government.  That means liberals would favor the government aiding the poor.  Conservatives traditionally dislike social programs and want a minimal government.  They rely of charity and private organizations to help the needy.  Your article concludes that the horse traditionally backed by conservatives helps the world's needy more than the horse backed by the liberals.

THE ARTICLE I POSTED SAYS NOTHING OF THE LIKE hihi

It's about Americans being more charitable than the Government, big deal who didn't know that?  Also a citation about how US Immigrants send money home to their families (are they all conservatives in your mind as well?)

I find it SAD that you take a nice topic such as charitable giving and turn it into a political fued. It really shows how low the "conservatives" are willing to go.

You can't really blame him/them....Repubs have so little to brag about right now and so much to be ashamed of that they will take anything they can find right now to make themselves look good.
Logged

"You're the worst character ever Towelie."
Bandita
Legend
*****

Karma: -1
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 3619


unbanned


« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2006, 04:16:14 PM »

The sad truth:  You can find an article on anything that will help fuel a political agenda.  If I don't like the 1st one I read I can read a few more and will find someone who agrees with my views.

Doing this makes us more sad than the media whose job it is to fill our heads with hate and propaganda.  We should be smarter than this but we aren't.

Nice job taking goodwill and turning it into something ugly, Randall. no
Logged
Mal Brossard
There should be a title here....
VIP
****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1078


Iihan stuoramus alo vuoitte.


« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2006, 10:32:26 AM »

I think a better study than who puts more money toward charities is who puts in more time and work to charities?

To me, putting in volunteer time and work for charities is better than (or at the very least, just as good as) a monetary donation.
Logged

I’ll be the last to say "Don’t follow your heart," but there’s more to what it takes to be a man.
pilferk
The Riddler
Legend
*****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11724


Marmite Militia, taking over one piece of toast at a time!!!


« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2006, 01:03:30 PM »

There's alot more credibility to this study than most of the AOL or other internet polls some of you site.? Most of the polls you people provide are the equivalent of Jarmo asking this board which band is the greatest ever and when Gn'R won, calling it valid and spreading the results.? I posted this article because it helps dispel the myth that "conservatives" hate the poor and do nothing to help them while "liberals" dedicate their lives to selfless causes.

Actually, not much...

Sure, you can argue the sample is a bit more diverse, but...a phone poll is a phone poll with all the issues surrounding sed poll (including truthfullness, demographic limits, social and class biases, etc).

Again, even the SOURCE of some of the info in the article doesn't exactly support what's being said in it.  He says, himself, conservatives are more likely to give money, liberals more likely to give time.  Sounds like a wash to me.  The article in question, though, seems to be ONLY looking at money...and not looking at it very well, either.

Logged

Together again,
Gee, it's good to be together again,
I just can't imagine that you've ever been gone
It's not starting over, it's just going on
pilferk
The Riddler
Legend
*****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11724


Marmite Militia, taking over one piece of toast at a time!!!


« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2006, 01:04:44 PM »

I? ? WILL? ? EXPLAIN? ?IT? ? NICE? ? AND? ? SIMPLE? ?FOR? ?YOU? ? BANDITA.? ? ? ?Liberals support social programs and bigger government.? That means liberals would favor the government aiding the poor.? Conservatives traditionally dislike social programs and want a minimal government.? They rely of charity and private organizations to help the needy.? Your article concludes that the horse traditionally backed by conservatives helps the world's needy more than the horse backed by the liberals.

That's the most gross overgeneralization and wrongheaded interpretation I think one person could make after reading the article in question.....

Your bias is clouding your reason on this one.
Logged

Together again,
Gee, it's good to be together again,
I just can't imagine that you've ever been gone
It's not starting over, it's just going on
pilferk
The Riddler
Legend
*****

Karma: 0
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11724


Marmite Militia, taking over one piece of toast at a time!!!


« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2006, 01:08:11 PM »

I'm not gonna lie, I think most liberals are all talk and little action (this board backs that up). ?

Really?? I think TALKING about charity, in the manner you are, is demonstration of "all talk and little action", personally.  Doing it to push your "agenda" is disingenious and completly contrary to the concept, as a whole.

Quote
I actually saw this article on digg.com, so I posted it here. ?I liked it because it hit on a point I argue all the time, liberals do little themselves becuase they want/believe the government to do it for them. ?They want more social programs (at the expense of the wealthy) so that they can feel better about themselves knowing they voted to spend someone else's money to aide someone they've never met. ?But in all fairness, I did not choose this article over any other. ?Again, i saw it on digg.com and posted it here.

"Do little themselves"?? Where do you get THAT from the article.? Talk about misinterpretation of even the wrongheaded information presented.....

You interpretation of what "liberals" want is so insanely skewed by your bias it's not even funny.? You believe what you want to believe, and then shoehorn everything in to fit that stereotype that you've constructed.

Your views on charity seem to be so warped, it's not really even worth discussing the matter with you, quite frankly.
Logged

Together again,
Gee, it's good to be together again,
I just can't imagine that you've ever been gone
It's not starting over, it's just going on
SLCPUNK
Guest
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2006, 01:20:23 PM »

Somebody pass me the popcorn............
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  All Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.079 seconds with 19 queries.