The Tokyo 92 second night mystery?

[kaasupoltin]

...

For God's sake, I don't want Tracy and Roberta, I don't want Teddy Zig fuckin' Zag and I don't want Gilby! I don't want a band that is dying in front of thousands of Japanese fans!

...

Please tell me, what's wrong with Gilby? Or how were they dying?

[duga]

There are a couple things that save Tokyo for me.

Double Talkin Jive, Wild Horses, Civil War, and YCBM are great.? When Duff and Axl walk up behind Slash and Gilby on Wild Horses....now that is a moment!

Slash just rips it up on DTJ.? And Axl is a freakin mad man on YCBM.

If only he wasn't wearing those shorts the whole time.? ?

The red "shirt" (or n?tbrynja as we call it in Sweden) is disgusting. 

[kriss_boy]

I think its ridiculous criticising the Tokyo DVDS. EStranged is brilliant.. move to the city is bitchin... Nightrain is jus world class... patience.. dont cry.. wild horses... jeez they are just brilliant dvds. Slash is a sloppy player but for some reason he just nails everything that nite and cant put a foot wrong.

Some people are mentioning Paris 92.. but slash fucks up November rain and Godfather if i remember correctly.

Yes of course there are going to have been better gigs, wev seen the bootlegs, but they cant pro shot every gig the band play and I think the DVDs remain a very good represenation of the band.

Only criticism is axls voice at times but hey thats axl.

[IndiannaRose]

The Japanese market is often given "bonus" items concerning band releases as imported music products are somewhat more expensive than regional releases (this is why you will almost always see bonus tracks on Japanese album releases). All these bonus tracks and whatnot are there as an incentive to get the Japanese crowd to purchase these imported items. They used the Tokyo DVDs in order to cater to the Japanese audience (because the shows were set in Tokyo). It was only later that the label decided to release these videos worldwide.

I think I am right to assume that the label used these Japanese recordings for the Japanese market especially. It was after these products were succesful in their intended market, Japan, that the videos were released elsewhere globally. Imo, it was basically a marketing stragety that targeted a specific region at first.

Although, I would've loved to have seen a Wembley 1991 video release. That show was bloody good.

[Adler_Sorum_Brain]

Weird...but they should have released Stockholm 1991 ...Or France 1992...The Tokyo-gigs sucked..Sure iv?e only heard/seen the one that became the DVD/ VHS but..Axl?s voice doesn?t change over a day or 2 ??..I think they could find some other shows where his voice is clean....Sure they Tokyo- DVD has their moments....I dig YCBM, Nightrain, Don?t cry, So fine and Attitude...But to take an example Sail away sweet sister / bad time starts out fine and then the SCOM-riff follow..And everything is great untill Axl starts to sing...Even my uncle siad " Does he have a flew or sumthing ? " when he saw that......

TO MAKE a long story short...Axl is the ultimate singer...But 1992 ( At least alot of shows ) wasn?t a good year for him, when it came to singin...And the Tokyo-DVD is not something GNR should put in their CV....

[D]

How can anyone not love the tokyo DVDS?


I think this is one of the greatest concerts ever.

I dont know how anyone could complain about this concert.

[russtcb]

How can anyone not love the tokyo DVDS?


I think this is one of the greatest concerts ever.

I dont know how anyone could complain about this concert.

I love the DVDs too. I think it shows the band right there, right then with no edits, manipulation or anything. Good, bad or ugly that's how it was. Sure, there were better shows here and again on the tour but for the most part it's an accurate representation of what they were at the time.

[The Legend]

*************
The Tokyo Mistery?

For a band that made hundreds of shows from 1987 until September 31, 1991, the mistery is how can they release a sad show like Tokyo 1992.

For God's sake, I don't want Tracy and Roberta, I don't want Teddy Zig fuckin' Zag and I don't want Gilby! I don't want a band that is dying in front of thousands of Japanese fans! I want a band on fire, rocking hard and having a great fuckin' time! I want to have a decent video or audio recording of the best band in the world playing a great fucking show!

So forget about Tokyo 1992 and just release Tokyo 1988! Don't like Japan? Pay Australian TV some money and release Melbourne 1988! No? So pay MTV some money and release the fantastic Ritz 1988 complete, uncensored and with bonus backstage footage! Oh, don't wanna do stuff with MTV? So Release the goddam RITZ 991 gig! FOR GOD SAKE, THAT CONCERT WAS SHOT ON FILM FOR THE YOU COULD BE MINE VIDEO!!!! Not good enough? Just do an easy deal with Brazil's TV Globo and release Rio 1991, the biggest show the band has ever done, and certainly one of the best! No deal with Brazil? So get your own footage together and just release Indiana 1991, that fuckin' glorious homecoming show! Or just do the right things and release a triple DVD with the 3/4-hour long August 3, 1991 gig! Release anything from 1987 until Wembley 1991! Even on THAT concert, when things weren't going so well, it was still good. Anyone that watched "Live and Let Die" from that concert (broadcasted on MTV awards) can tell it bloody rocked!

The mistery? There is one mistery for me. How come the best live band ever not have ONE SINGLE DECENT live release?

Oh, they have the Japanese EP, I forgot about that one! It has five songs! Yes!

Luciano

************

To release Use Your Illusion videos, you need a Use Your Illusion era show.

Indiana '91, although it was the original band (mostly), and the original format of Guns N' Roses, and the homecoming show, the band performance wasn't all that great. Axl's voice was strained in many places, almost as if he was over doing it. Slash's guitar work was spotty in many places also.

[Sillything]

Yes sure is a mystery they released this show. Slash's playing on So Fine is horrible, so out o tune. and no good chemistry in the band. IF the must release a show with Gilby in it, probably late in the tour from 1993 would be the best option

[kaasupoltin]

I think IndiannaRose made a good point in his post, everyone should read it first.

[luciano]

******

Kaasu,

Axl said himself in that MTV interview that he felt the band was dying. All the guys (Slash, Izzy, Duff) have said basically the same thing in other interviews/moments. And you don't need them saying that. You could see it with your bare eyes. Even the fishs that live on the Pacific Ocean know that 1992 was a sad and bad moment, it just wasn't good no more. They were professionals, they made the gigs and so on, but it was not the same thing. That is a fact.

Now I don't have anything against Gilby, I have all his records, I like them (not a lot, but they are ok), it is just that he is not Izzy. Gilby is not Izzy, the same way that Steven Tyler is not Axl or Joe Perry is not Slash. No matter how good is your replacement, it is never the same. And when you remove the most important songwriter from a band and also a damn good guitar player, it all changes. If - and only if - everything else was the same that 1986-1991, it would be OK. But Izzy's departure was actually a sign that things had collapsed in Guns n' Roses and the band was gone from there.

Axl is still a great performer, Slash and Duff & Matt can rock the shit out of anyone in the music business and Izzy makes one great record after the other, but separated they don't have the same power that they had when they were together. When these guys were together they were magical, and lucky are the ones who had the chance to witness this band playing live on those long gone days.

Now, Guns n' Roses never allowed themselves to imortalize those magical days on a CD or a DVD. Of course somebody did that for them - and thank God for bootleggers, because listening and watching Guns n' Roses bootlegs is the best thing I can do to get close to those magical moments. So, as a GN'R lover, all I am saying is that this band should just release any decent concert from 1987 to 1991. Because on those years Guns n' Roses was the best band in the fuckin' world. That's all there is to it.

Luciano

**********

[SterileEyes]

*************
The Tokyo Mistery?

For a band that made hundreds of shows from 1987 until September 31, 1991, the mistery is how can they release a sad show like Tokyo 1992.

For God's sake, I don't want Tracy and Roberta, I don't want Teddy Zig fuckin' Zag and I don't want Gilby! I don't want a band that is dying in front of thousands of Japanese fans! I want a band on fire, rocking hard and having a great fuckin' time! I want to have a decent video or audio recording of the best band in the world playing a great fucking show!

So forget about Tokyo 1992 and just release Tokyo 1988! Don't like Japan? Pay Australian TV some money and release Melbourne 1988! No? So pay MTV some money and release the fantastic Ritz 1988 complete, uncensored and with bonus backstage footage! Oh, don't wanna do stuff with MTV? So Release the goddam RITZ 991 gig! FOR GOD SAKE, THAT CONCERT WAS SHOT ON FILM FOR THE YOU COULD BE MINE VIDEO!!!! Not good enough? Just do an easy deal with Brazil's TV Globo and release Rio 1991, the biggest show the band has ever done, and certainly one of the best! No deal with Brazil? So get your own footage together and just release Indiana 1991, that fuckin' glorious homecoming show! Or just do the right things and release a triple DVD with the 3/4-hour long August 3, 1991 gig! Release anything from 1987 until Wembley 1991! Even on THAT concert, when things weren't going so well, it was still good. Anyone that watched "Live and Let Die" from that concert (broadcasted on MTV awards) can tell it bloody rocked!

The mistery? There is one mistery for me. How come the best live band ever not have ONE SINGLE DECENT live release?

Oh, they have the Japanese EP, I forgot about that one! It has five songs! Yes!

Luciano

************

To release Use Your Illusion videos, you need a Use Your Illusion era show.

Indiana '91, although it was the original band (mostly), and the original format of Guns N' Roses, and the homecoming show, the band performance wasn't all that great. Axl's voice was strained in many places, almost as if he was over doing it. Slash's guitar work was spotty in many places also.

Indiana's a great gig but Axl's voice goes during the encore - Slash had to sing the end of Paradise City

[tomass74]

Those shows made a way better live CD than DVD.....  The whole band was great but Axl really looked like a clown with every single one of his outfits..... I thought he sounded fine though.

[muresan]

"Yes of course there are going to have been better gigs, wev seen the bootlegs, but they cant pro shot every gig the band play and I think the DVDs remain a very good represenation of the band."

That's the thing though, there IS a pro-shot of every UYI gig. Or at least there was at one time.

This is a very painful fact: Somewhere there are tapes of all of these legendary performances. We only have the treasures that are the Chicago, Indiana and Oklahoma City shows due to sheer luck (well, and riots).

Axl, Del, somebody, anybody, dig up those tapes and sell 'em!

[Joe2]

"Yes of course there are going to have been better gigs, wev seen the bootlegs, but they cant pro shot every gig the band play and I think the DVDs remain a very good represenation of the band."

That's the thing though, there IS a pro-shot of every UYI gig. Or at least there was at one time.

This is a very painful fact: Somewhere there are tapes of all of these legendary performances. We only have the treasures that are the Chicago, Indiana and Oklahoma City shows due to sheer luck (well, and riots).

Axl, Del, somebody, anybody, dig up those tapes and sell 'em!

If only...

[Drew]

- The DVD's are not from all three shows, it's just from the 22nd

That's correct Kaasu.

I recommend to everyone to get the udedited/uncut performace bootleg DVD of this show. It's much better. The songs are in order unlike in the official dvd's with November Rain and You Could Be Mine. Plus, the bootleg dvd has all of Axl's rants and his speech thru an interpreter.

Where can I find this unedited/uncut performance?

I bought it off a bootleg website out of China about 4 years ago. It's floating around and should be easy for you to find. I'm pretty sure Will(one of the Moderators here) has it on dvd also. I remember talking with him about the dvd in another thread a while back.

[The Legend]

*************
The Tokyo Mistery?

For a band that made hundreds of shows from 1987 until September 31, 1991, the mistery is how can they release a sad show like Tokyo 1992.

For God's sake, I don't want Tracy and Roberta, I don't want Teddy Zig fuckin' Zag and I don't want Gilby! I don't want a band that is dying in front of thousands of Japanese fans! I want a band on fire, rocking hard and having a great fuckin' time! I want to have a decent video or audio recording of the best band in the world playing a great fucking show!

So forget about Tokyo 1992 and just release Tokyo 1988! Don't like Japan? Pay Australian TV some money and release Melbourne 1988! No? So pay MTV some money and release the fantastic Ritz 1988 complete, uncensored and with bonus backstage footage! Oh, don't wanna do stuff with MTV? So Release the goddam RITZ 991 gig! FOR GOD SAKE, THAT CONCERT WAS SHOT ON FILM FOR THE YOU COULD BE MINE VIDEO!!!! Not good enough? Just do an easy deal with Brazil's TV Globo and release Rio 1991, the biggest show the band has ever done, and certainly one of the best! No deal with Brazil? So get your own footage together and just release Indiana 1991, that fuckin' glorious homecoming show! Or just do the right things and release a triple DVD with the 3/4-hour long August 3, 1991 gig! Release anything from 1987 until Wembley 1991! Even on THAT concert, when things weren't going so well, it was still good. Anyone that watched "Live and Let Die" from that concert (broadcasted on MTV awards) can tell it bloody rocked!

The mistery? There is one mistery for me. How come the best live band ever not have ONE SINGLE DECENT live release?

Oh, they have the Japanese EP, I forgot about that one! It has five songs! Yes!

Luciano

************

To release Use Your Illusion videos, you need a Use Your Illusion era show.

Indiana '91, although it was the original band (mostly), and the original format of Guns N' Roses, and the homecoming show, the band performance wasn't all that great. Axl's voice was strained in many places, almost as if he was over doing it. Slash's guitar work was spotty in many places also.

Indiana's a great gig but Axl's voice goes during the encore - Slash had to sing the end of Paradise City

I remember it going out around Rocket Queen.

It was a cool gig tho. Axl was in one of his best moods ever.

[luciano]

*********

On Indiana, Axl destroyed his voice. Yes, it sounded FUCKED for most of the show, but the cool thing about it is that he destroyed it because he gave 110%, not only for that night, but pretty much for his entire life up to that point.

On Tokyo 1992? There is a name for what happened that night: SAVING. Axl learned to save his voice and not to force it anymore. From the very first show with Gilby on december 1991 until today, Axl sings in a WHOLE different way. Some like it, some don't, but if there is one thing that everyone should agree on is that he is holding back and not giving 110% like he used to do. Because he can't. And, on most of the GNR shows after Izzy left, also because he didn't want to. It was not needed.

There were very, very few times when Axl gave it all after 1991 and most of these times were OUTSIDE of Guns n' Roses. One of these times was for those very few lines of "Bohemian Raphsody" that he sang  on the Freddie Mercury concert. Wow, that was awesome. In 1994, singing "Come Together" with Bruce Springsteen, you could also see that Axl was ON, like he used to be in Guns n' Roses. He was putting his heart on that performance, he was 110% into it, and it showed.

And I am not telling that he is a pussy for not pushing his voice in 1992 or 1993 or 2006. He probably just HAD to sing like that. Otherwise he just would destroy his voice forever.

You can't do that - sing like a madman - to your voice forever without paying a HUGE price.

Luciano

************

[The Legend]

*********

On Indiana, Axl destroyed his voice. Yes, it sounded FUCKED for most of the show, but the cool thing about it is that he destroyed it because he gave 110%, not only for that night, but pretty much for his entire life up to that point.

On Tokyo 1992? There is a name for what happened that night: SAVING. Axl learned to save his voice and not to force it anymore. From the very first show with Gilby on december 1991 until today, Axl sings in a WHOLE different way. Some like it, some don't, but if there is one thing that everyone should agree on is that he is holding back and not giving 110% like he used to do. Because he can't. And, on most of the GNR shows after Izzy left, also because he didn't want to. It was not needed.

There were very, very few times when Axl gave it all after 1991 and most of these times were OUTSIDE of Guns n' Roses. One of these times was for those very few lines of "Bohemian Raphsody" that he sang? on the Freddie Mercury concert. Wow, that was awesome. In 1994, singing "Come Together" with Bruce Springsteen, you could also see that Axl was ON, like he used to be in Guns n' Roses. He was putting his heart on that performance, he was 110% into it, and it showed.

And I am not telling that he is a pussy for not pushing his voice in 1992 or 1993 or 2006. He probably just HAD to sing like that. Otherwise he just would destroy his voice forever.

You can't do that - sing like a madman - to your voice forever without paying a HUGE price.

Luciano

************

Interesting theory.

I don't think it's about him not giving 110% tho. I think it's about him growing as a singer, and realizing how to control his voice with vocal coaches, and how to conservatively sing, so he could sing everyday.

Plus, even today, it also depends on how 'rested' he sounds. Tampa was the 2nd show on tour, and he was OLD SKOOL. He was really into it, and was showin' off.

So going on your theory Luciano, what was up in 2002?

[luciano]

******

Hi The Legend,

I think Axl voice was really destroyed in 2001-2002. I don't know why he was singing like that (as if he was a member of the Bee Gees). But the fact is that his voice was (to my ears) really fucked up, compared to what it used to be in the past. But hey, don't get me wrong, I went to Rock in Rio 2001 here in Brazil and I'd go to any concert that had Axl singing on it. Even if Axl did 100 different shows here I probably would go to them all if I could pay for it (unless if he did the same setlist, of course, than I'd just go to some 50 concerts, hehehehehe).

But returning to your question... Why was Axl singing like that in 2001-2002 (if it was because he wanted to or if it was because that was all he could do) is beyond my understanding. And now I have listened to some 2006 boots and Axl seems to be in a good mood again and somehow his voice is much better than in 2002. It is good to see that Axl is rocking again and seems to be getting along with his band and - that is the best part - played with IZZY again.

Now that is just fantastic. I just wish that Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash could play together and make music again. As I said in another thread here a while ago, I think these guys could do the best rock album ever if they just get together again. If just Axl and Izzy could be together with one acoustic guitar on hand they could do (or at least play) an album worth of great songs in a few hours time. These guys have done so much great stuff and to me it just seems like a giant waste of talent that they are not playing together for 15 years now (counting from 1991).

Because even with his voice damaged, Axl is (and will ever) be the greatest singer ever in this fuckin' world, and those guys - Izzy, Slash, Duff - are the best rock n' roll band ever!

Luciano

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