Artistic and complex songs? Axl evolved?

[Luigi]

I myself am just happy to have Axl back doing his Thing, His Music, His Way, No Matter how much it cost, How long it took. The fact that he's coming back with the intent to stay and share his music in his own style the way he feels is my style also, so to the ones that pick him apart just to get in a post here and there, it just makes my eyes water.   

[themovieaddict.com]

Yeah, I'd rather hear songs like "It's Tough Bein' a Pimp" or "My Humps." That's classy, complex music right there for you. And don't forget My Chemical Romance and Linkin Park. They're killer, man! 

[The Dog]

I don't think they are going "to change music" BUT they might change the FACE of music today.  Music today has no soul, no emotion...no defining sound.
If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

Yeah, so far the songs we've heard have a classic rock, modern rock, industrial sound to them, yet I wouldn't define any of the demos as just ONE of those styles I just listed.

Yeah, hes not going to invent anything new, but when CD drops nothing else on the radio is going to sound like it.

But I think the overall message of your post was good - some fans on this board are way over reacting to these songs.  Anytime I hear how Better is the best GNR song ever, you just kind of have to laugh.  Its a decent tune, but lets not get carried away.

Thanks, you saved me some time by summing up my thoughts  exactly 

Hey, no problem.  Thats what HannaHat is here for haha

And to the dude who said simplicity is the key to everything great??  Wow...you must be a HUGE Puddle of Mudd/Nickelback fan.  rock on dude. hahaha  -- theres nothing wrong with a 3 chord rocking tune, but a whole disc of them??  ZZzzzzz  Three or four CDs of them from the same band (ie. Fuel) ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  Gets old.  I like to see my fave bands take SOME chances.  And when it really works (ie RadioHead - ok computer) it totally kicks ass.  And sometimes it bombs (everything by radiohead post ok computer haha). 

[mikegiuliana]

I don't think they are going "to change music" BUT they might change the FACE of music today.? Music today has no soul, no emotion...no defining sound.
If you think AFD was 100% original you'd be totally wrong too - its got a Stones, Aerosmith influence that is undeniable, yet for the time it rocked the music world b/c nobody else sounded like that at the time.

Yeah, so far the songs we've heard have a classic rock, modern rock, industrial sound to them, yet I wouldn't define any of the demos as just ONE of those styles I just listed.

Yeah, hes not going to invent anything new, but when CD drops nothing else on the radio is going to sound like it.

But I think the overall message of your post was good - some fans on this board are way over reacting to these songs.? Anytime I hear how Better is the best GNR song ever, you just kind of have to laugh.? Its a decent tune, but lets not get carried away.

Thanks, you saved me some time by summing up my thoughts? exactly?

Hey, no problem.? Thats what HannaHat is here for haha

And to the dude who said simplicity is the key to everything great??? Wow...you must be a HUGE Puddle of Mudd/Nickelback fan.? rock on dude. hahaha? -- theres nothing wrong with a 3 chord rocking tune, but a whole disc of them??? ZZzzzzz? Three or four CDs of them from the same band (ie. Fuel) ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz? Gets old.? I like to see my fave bands take SOME chances.? And when it really works (ie RadioHead - ok computer) it totally kicks ass.? And sometimes it bombs (everything by radiohead post ok computer haha).?

maybe he meant simplicity like afd, or the short times it took do do the beatles albums.. Look at how simple nirvana was, basically 3 guys playing...

Simplicty can simply mean a regular stage instead of something like the 92 part of the illusions.. So sometimes less is more/.

[RitzWalker8]

Back to the original post.  I could careless about the percieved complexity or lack of complexity of the songs.  But when I listen to songs like Better I have a very strong emotional and musical response and connection with the song.  So whatever.  Plus, I am in the minority in the feeling that UYI 1+2 were better than AFD for me personally.  And to me I refuse to get into the Nirvana vs. GNR war because I don't see a competition there.  Otherwise I would spend my time on some Nirvana board somewhere. 

[RichardNixon]

Axl is a musical genius. The new material is far more three dimensional and creative than VR.

[snow white]

And to the dude who said simplicity is the key to everything great??? Wow...you must be a HUGE Puddle of Mudd/Nickelback fan.? rock on dude. hahaha? -- theres nothing wrong with a 3 chord rocking tune, but a whole disc of them??? ZZzzzzz? Three or four CDs of them from the same band (ie. Fuel) ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz? Gets old.? I like to see my fave bands take SOME chances.? And when it really works (ie RadioHead - ok computer) it totally kicks ass.? And sometimes it bombs (everything by radiohead post ok computer haha).?

maybe he meant simplicity like afd, or the short times it took do do the beatles albums.. Look at how simple nirvana was, basically 3 guys playing...

Simplicty can simply mean a regular stage instead of something like the 92 part of the illusions.. So sometimes less is more/.

Exactly. If something is simple it doesnt mean it's stupid or not brilliant.  And in terms of music the simple=boring argument really doesn't stand up because then you'd wouldn't get alot of folk music, or unplugged acoustic stuff etc because one man and a guitar and a harmonica is pretty 'simple'.

As for Axl, I think the new stuff further supports what we already knew - that he was a massive creative force in GnR, and though the other musicians were brilliant, alot of the time-if not all- it was Axl pushing the band to be different, better.
And once again, his lyrics are far better than anything else I have heard from a rock band in a long long time, as with his music.

I'm not so sure about the 3 guitarist thing, but as someone said elsewhere songs like Madagascar wouldn't be as intense with only 2 guitars. Anyways, I know nothing about the technical side of music, so, like, yeah...

[Mikkamakka]

Axl is a musical genius. The new material is far more three dimensional and creative than VR.

It's not the VR section. I didn't even mention them in my first post. This topic is about Axl-diehards keep saying how complex, evolved, experimental, artistic his new music is. And it's not. It's not against the music quality - simple songs can be great and complex songs can be crap and vice versa. But STOP CHANTING THAT AXL MAKES SOMETHING NEW AND EXTREMELY CREATIVE MUSIC. He made good songs, IMO one great (Better), some mediocre and some crappy ones.

When some of you say that 'these are only demos', that's why the sound empty, then please don't praise the same songs as creative and experimental in other posts.


BTW the music of th VR's songs are far superior comparing them to Axl's 'new' songs. But Axl owns CB when it comes to lyrics and vocal melodies.

[RichardNixon]

Axl is a musical genius. The new material is far more three dimensional and creative than VR.

It's not the VR section. I didn't even mention them in my first post. This topic is about Axl-diehards keep saying how complex, evolved, experimental, artistic his new music is. And it's not. It's not against the music quality - simple songs can be great and complex songs can be crap and vice versa. But STOP CHANTING THAT AXL MAKES SOMETHING NEW AND EXTREMELY CREATIVE MUSIC. He made good songs, IMO one great (Better), some mediocre and some crappy ones.

When some of you say that 'these are only demos', that's why the sound empty, then please don't praise the same songs as creative and experimental in other posts.


BTW the music of th VR's songs are far superior comparing them to Axl's 'new' songs. But Axl owns CB when it comes to lyrics and vocal melodies.

It?s important to bring VR into the subject to put everything in perspective. Slash/Duff/Matt are great musicians and have a great band going, but it?s just not on the same level as Axl?s new music. Quite simply, the old guys were left behind while Axl has gone into warp speed, creatively speaking.? ?Contraband,? while an excellent, solid album, is basically just meat-and-potatoes hard-rock. What Axl is doing is inventive, epic, and challenging.

And I think one can argue that the new demos are brilliant while at the same time acknowledge that they aren?t as good as they will eventually become. The seeds are there. You can look at an oak seed and say ?this will one day be a mighty tree, this is where a giant will stand,? and at the same time realize that it?s just a seed.

And I will go on record now as saying CITR and ?Better? are as good as anything GN?R has ever released.


And I don't think there is a mediocre song in the bunch. "Chinese Democracy" wont have an "Illegal i Song."

[Mikkamakka]

I think that CD is very mediocre and CITR is very-very weak and uninspired. Tastes are different.

And I still can't see why Axl's new music'd be  'inventive, epic, and challenging'. Inventive? I can't see inventing anything new here. Epic? Madagascar is epic, but being epic doesn't necesserly mean quality (IMO Madagascar has a special atmosphere and a good song but not great). Challenging? I can't see it. The only challenging thing in Nu-GN'R is that Axl kept the name.

I repeat it again: my biggest problem with Nu-GN'R is that the music is average. Axl shines in most of the songs, he's brilliant when it comes to vocal melodies. But he can't write quality music alone and his new guys lack inspiration, spontanity and creativity of the old. You can recognize it's GN'R when you hear a little piece of music of old GN'R - when Nu-GN'R play it's just like anything else, doesn't have its own characteristics.

It's pretty clear for me that Axl wasn't the only reason behind GN'R's success. Axl made them mainstream without a doubt, he is pop but rock at the same time. Slash made them rock and made the music unique, while Izzy and Duff were the glue that made GN'R strong and kept the thing together (musically and on a personal level). So I think that Nu-GN'R is only Axl's side of Guns N' Roses: it shows his strengths and weaknesses, just like the other solo works showed their artist's. Some can't see the weaknesses of Nu-GN'R since they're quite of an average music listeners, who don't take attention to the music, just the lyrics and vocal melodies. Which, to tell the truth, are qute great in overall. But the music is beneath GN'R standards.

[younggunner]

I repeat it again: my biggest problem with Nu-GN'R is that the music is average. Axl shines in most of the songs, he's brilliant when it comes to vocal melodies. But he can't write quality music alone and his new guys lack inspiration, spontanity and creativity of the old. You can recognize it's GN'R when you hear a little piece of music of old GN'R - when Nu-GN'R play it's just like anything else, doesn't have its own characteristics.

The only thing lacking from this band is a final production of these songs. The inspiration and creativity is all there. The Madagascar storytelling quotes arent original and inspiring? Or how about Better?

Your pretty much ragging on old gnr material as well because IRS,The Blues and TWAT could have all come off the Illusions.

It's pretty clear for me that Axl wasn't the only reason behind GN'R's success. Axl made them mainstream without a doubt, he is pop but rock at the same time. Slash made them rock and made the music unique, while Izzy and Duff were the glue that made GN'R strong and kept the thing together (musically and on a personal level). So I think that Nu-GN'R is only Axl's side of Guns N' Roses: it shows his strengths and weaknesses, just like the other solo works showed their artist's. Some can't see the weaknesses of Nu-GN'R since they're quite of an average music listeners, who don't take attention to the music, just the lyrics and vocal melodies. Which, to tell the truth, are qute great in overall. But the music is beneath GN'R standards.

Im pretty sure no1 with a brain here would say that Axl was the sole reason for GNRs success...so with that being said here is what is clear...

That without Axl the old ban dwould have never created such songs as NR,Estranged,Loco,Breakdown,etc

Did the old band help make those songs what they are? Absolutely. But without the voice and leadership of Axl they would have never been able to shine....

and that is what separates Axl from not only th emembers of the old band but out of every1....hes great in his own right but he also elevates the people around him...and he has done that with this new band. The songs I mentioned above all could have come right off the Illusions.

Then we have songs like Better,CITR,Maddy, and CD...songs that are the new version of GNR. Mondern songs with a gnr twist....

The only weakness I see is a band called Vr doing boring stuff. Is it good? SOme of it is. But its not what i personally expected from Slash. He set his own bar and he himself didnt live up to that on CB. Minus 2 songs....

  WHen I hear this new material I get excited. I dont know what to expect from song to song. I hear freshness, I hear motivation I hear Guns N Roses. The spirit of GNr is all in these songs. Would these songs sound better if Slash was on them? Maybe...its sopmething we'll never know. Mainly because songs like Better,OMG,Maddy, and some others were not good enough for Slash to be a part of....But what I know is that the members that have worked on these songs and albums have done an AMAZING job with the sound of the band. Its not NIN2 or Radiohead...Its guns N fukin Roses 2006.

The music is up to GNr standards. And it just shows that Axl and the band hes with ant anytime can make amazing music that challenges the old material. He doesnt need the old members to make a great album. As long as the production of CD doesnt get fucked up, this album will be a GREAT album. And that ssomehting the oldl members cant say they have accomplished. CB is a good album.  Its a good lets round up the boys and make an album in a few weeks....thats all it is...but its not what I would expect from GNR.

[RichardNixon]

I think that CD is very mediocre and CITR is very-very weak and uninspired. Tastes are different.

And I still can't see why Axl's new music'd be? 'inventive, epic, and challenging'. Inventive? I can't see inventing anything new here. Epic? Madagascar is epic, but being epic doesn't necesserly mean quality (IMO Madagascar has a special atmosphere and a good song but not great). Challenging? I can't see it. The only challenging thing in Nu-GN'R is that Axl kept the name.

I repeat it again: my biggest problem with Nu-GN'R is that the music is average. Axl shines in most of the songs, he's brilliant when it comes to vocal melodies. But he can't write quality music alone and his new guys lack inspiration, spontanity and creativity of the old. You can recognize it's GN'R when you hear a little piece of music of old GN'R - when Nu-GN'R play it's just like anything else, doesn't have its own characteristics.

It's pretty clear for me that Axl wasn't the only reason behind GN'R's success. Axl made them mainstream without a doubt, he is pop but rock at the same time. Slash made them rock and made the music unique, while Izzy and Duff were the glue that made GN'R strong and kept the thing together (musically and on a personal level). So I think that Nu-GN'R is only Axl's side of Guns N' Roses: it shows his strengths and weaknesses, just like the other solo works showed their artist's. Some can't see the weaknesses of Nu-GN'R since they're quite of an average music listeners, who don't take attention to the music, just the lyrics and vocal melodies. Which, to tell the truth, are qute great in overall. But the music is beneath GN'R standards.

Then there is a clear difference of opinion here.

Averege, mediocore to me is Slash's Snakepit, Linkin Park.

I would call the new leaks far better than average. I won?t go into my detailed take on the leaks here (because there are other threads for that) but I will say they show a depth, maturity, and creativity that was hinted at, but not achieved with the Illusion albums.

I think ?Catcher in the Rye? in particular is a great song that encompasses the very best styles of GN?R, Queen, and the Beatles, something that Slash and the old-band could never dream of achieving. Old-school GN?R (a band that I will always love) seems sophomoric and totally one dimensional in comparison.

How are the new songs epic, inventive, and challenging?

Epic- The sound and scope of the new songs are intricate, with layers of sounds and styles that both tantalize and entice the senses.

Inventive- Axl is making a ?Dark Side of the Moon,? ?White Album? and ?Queen II? all rolled into one. It has the breath and ambition of the first, the diverse mosaic style of the second, and the artiness of the third. Kids these days don?t have their own ?Dark Side,? and Axl is set to deliver.

Challenging- Just listen to ?Better.? It starts out as pure ear-candy, Axl?s pop-sensibility at its best, and then goes off on a tangent, down the garden path, a total curve-ball, before heading back to reality.

In conclusion, these new songs are purely delicious. The new songs are passionate, ambitious, with a sound and scope unmatched in their artistic integrity and vision.

I will go on record now by saying Axl Rose will prove himself to be the new John Lennon/Roger Waters with this new album. I truly believe this will be the album of the 00s, if not the century.?

As for CITR being "weak and uninspired," I feel sorry that you feel that way, because you are really missing out. It is perhaps Axl's greatest triumph.

Slash who?

[dub05]

Has axl evolved? maybe / maybe not.

Until we hear the final product & not leaks we cannot say.

Mr Richard Nixon.....you sure are confident that cd is gonna be in all the styles that you mentioned.

Either you just have a vivid imagination /have heard the finished article or you are the messiah himself.

Talk about putting pressure on someone.