Success of Chinese Democracy

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

yes, I know this has been debated to death before.. please don't hang me for it

but Is it just me or does anyone else think that the success of the album lies solely on us fans? I know that many, if not most of us believe Chinese Democracy to be this almighty force from the dieties that cannot be stopped once it's unleashed upon mankind.. but with all the time that has passed, this album IS set for VERY immense criticism from every form of media. I can see the headlines now.. "10+ years.. $13+ mil.. was it worth it?" or something about what could've been if slash had been a part ot it and so on and so forth.. and I know that the reviews for the albums have already been written.. no matter what it sounds like.. all they need to do is fill in the blanks of track names.. and you KNOW in your hearts that no matter how amazing the songs are, they will still be critisized crucially not even for their music, but for the artist and background of the band.. because we don't live in a perfect world where everything is judged solely by what it is..

so i guess what i'm trying to say here is.. the success of the album, which in turn will determine the success of the band and motivate future releases, depends solely on us fans and maybe some new fans CD might pick up..

what i'm asking, though.. is.. do you think that the fanbase, US-wise and worldwide.. is it big enough to ensure the future of this band?


ps: some of the things came out wrong in what i've written because of lack of better terms.. i'm in no way critisizing axl in any way becaue i'm a huge axlite and i'm waiting in anticipation just as much as you are for gnr's return.. and i'm optimistic about it as well, but, as you can see.. i do have my doubts

[damnsmooth]

I think that we will play a big part in getting it off the ground, but I also think the quality of the music will draw in plenty of new fans.  Even if we have to do it ourselves though, I think the worldwide fanbase is big enough to make it a hit.

[Markus Asraelius]

I think the success of any album depends on the support of the fans.

[oldgunsfan]

I think the success of any album depends on the support of the fans.

what's left of them......

personally, the diehards will buy it but there's not many left

for this to be a success, the quality of the CD is gonna make or break it IMO

[BKinNYC]

No offense to anybody, but I'm getting tired of talking about the same old shit day after day. ?

Like I said, no offense, but really - at this point, who cares what the fan base is, or "how will it sound," or "does Axl still have the scream," or "rate this 9 second CITR clip" blah blah blah.

I love this band more than anything, but after the recent leaks, I've really grown pretty tired of talking about all of this "extra" bullshit - i.e. "How does Axl look in this t-shirt now?" ?

Just put out the fucking album Axl. ?Please. ?I'm SO tired of reading about everything BUT the music.

 

[speed_stone]

i found the following post on mygnr.com a few days ago to be interesting:

Reading those threads about the brazilian and swedish journalist ripping Axl and Guns got me thinking about something.

I always felt that the impact of Guns N Roses and Axl Rose as a frontman/artist were severely underrated by the media outlets like Rolling Stone. Guns N Roses gave one of the all time greatest rock albums in AFD, a near perfect album, a seminal debut for a grimy rock band. They weren't posers, they weren't intentionally being subversive, they were just real and raw.

But they get written off as some flash in the pan band with a couple good songs who were sort of popular in their day but are a relic of the past with outdated music.

Lord knows I'm no Axl-lite, but Axl Rose's talents and his abilities as a songwriter and artist are completely ignored and mired under his lesser traits (homophobia, purported racism, being an asshole,etc). Axl has ofcourse made it worse by continuing to use the GnR name without the other members to the ire of the music industry and media. But aside from all his controversial aspects and areas where obviously he deserves some of the shit he gets, the guy was an immensely talented frontman. You don't write songs like Estranged and November Rain and lyrics to songs like Coma and be considered "that red haired asshole from guns n roses you know that 80's hair metal band, yeah they had a few good songs, Appetite was their only good album everything else afterwards was shit"...bet everyone has heard that line before in everything you read about Guns N Roses....


Now Guns in their day were a phenomenally talented band with worldwide popularity, they were the biggest band in the world. Their original material (AFD, Lies, UYI) are exceptionally strong albums with material that is holding up well over time. This isn't dated shit like stuff you find in the later Van Halen albums, Skid Row,etc....people are still listening to Paradise City and November Rain....Guns N Roses took risks whether they were successfull or not is subjective but they were not a one-dimensional band. Yet many say they were corporate rock, even with 10 minute art rock epics with f-bombs littered throughout....

So what do you guys think is the reason this band and Axl are so underrated? They were the last big band to make waves in America, not a single band has taken the mantle and become huge in America. Not one. For all the shit Axl gets, is there a single frontman who comes close to what he did in the 80's and 90's? Nope. In an era of posers (Eminem), you have a truly controversial band with a great frontman who really has not delivered a subpar record of original material. As the VH1 biography of Guns says, Axl's image has been frozen in time because he left the industry on such a strong note. Yet his legacy is still a big question mark, he still has not cemented it like Slash....will he do it with Chinese Democracy? Get the rightful praise he deserves?

my comments: i never understood why the media was so after axl, he is up there (if not better) than led zep and the stones and still he doesn't get, despite both the quality of his material and his popularity, the credit he deserves in the media. i think musically, guns n' roses are underrated bigtime. why this hatred for the messiah of rock n' roll? it's a fucking disgrace and it's pathetic, that's what it is. kurt cobain killed gnr? gimme a break, kurt cobain killed HIMSELF. grunge is dead, guns n' roses are still alive with growing interest. axl deserves to be up there with the greats, he is the most misunderstood rocker in our age and the last great frontman the world has ever seen. appetite was widely acclaimed but after that, hopefully with this release he will get the recognition he deserves.

[oldgunsfan]

^^ Axl doesn't have the body of work or longjevity to be compared with bads like the Stones, Zeppelin, or Aerosmith.....2/3 original albums....that's it

[ShotgunBlues1978]

This album will be profitable.  It'll sell at least 8-10 million worldwide if not more.  In the US it'll sell out least 2-3 million on name and curiousity alone.  If it's a great album, which all signs point to, and people listen to it with an open mind, it will sell 4-5 million in the US and 10-12 million worldwide, maybe more

You look at the way Greatest Hits is selling, a GH for a band with only 3 real albums of original material has been on the US top 100 charts for 2 years now and has sold about 7 million worldwide, maybe more.  The thing is, people buying greatest hits are a younger generation, because most GnR fans aren't going to buy the album unless they're real hardcores and insist on having every GnR album ever released.  But the way the GH is selling and it's staying power prove that the GnR name has a lot of staying power and holds a lot of weight, compare it to the Motley Crue greatest hits which was off the charts not too long after its release, and that's a GH from a band with a much larger catalogue

The amount of hype and the aura of Chinese Democracy will have a lot of people buying it, even a lot of the Axl haters will buy it just so they can rip it and claim they gave it a chance

[cheeser]

In the US it'll sell out least 2-3 million on name and curiousity alone.?

I agree that it will sell based on name and curiosity alone.? The fact that it's the "most anticipated album in history" will definatly turn heads.? CD will go platinum, It might be profitable....? But the success of future records depends on how the general public accepts the new music and the "new guns n' roses."? The Die hard fan base can only take it so far.? People that are die hard fans of other bands like metallica or U2 or Pearl Jam that once were GnR fans might not take a liking to the new Band and the new songs.? If that happens then any album after CD might not be too successful.

To be honest, i think that the New GnR will be a hit.? I think new fans will pick up, and old fans will go back....not all, but some.? The new fans will probably be the biggest driver of the future success of the band.....

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

This album will be profitable.  It'll sell at least 8-10 million worldwide if not more.  In the US it'll sell out least 2-3 million on name and curiousity alone.  If it's a great album, which all signs point to, and people listen to it with an open mind, it will sell 4-5 million in the US and 10-12 million worldwide, maybe more

You look at the way Greatest Hits is selling, a GH for a band with only 3 real albums of original material has been on the US top 100 charts for 2 years now and has sold about 7 million worldwide, maybe more.  The thing is, people buying greatest hits are a younger generation, because most GnR fans aren't going to buy the album unless they're real hardcores and insist on having every GnR album ever released.  But the way the GH is selling and it's staying power prove that the GnR name has a lot of staying power and holds a lot of weight, compare it to the Motley Crue greatest hits which was off the charts not too long after its release, and that's a GH from a band with a much larger catalogue

The amount of hype and the aura of Chinese Democracy will have a lot of people buying it, even a lot of the Axl haters will buy it just so they can rip it and claim they gave it a chance

no.. curiosity and axl haters won't buy it.. they'll download it to rip on it and see how it is.. they're not gonna pay up for somethin they dont know is gonna be great

and i dont think people will give it a chance with an open mind.. because it'll be compared to appetite.. regarded as not real gnr since slash isnt in it.. etc etc

[A Private Eye]

This album will be profitable.? It'll sell at least 8-10 million worldwide if not more.? In the US it'll sell out least 2-3 million on name and curiousity alone.? If it's a great album, which all signs point to, and people listen to it with an open mind, it will sell 4-5 million in the US and 10-12 million worldwide, maybe more

You look at the way Greatest Hits is selling, a GH for a band with only 3 real albums of original material has been on the US top 100 charts for 2 years now and has sold about 7 million worldwide, maybe more.? The thing is, people buying greatest hits are a younger generation, because most GnR fans aren't going to buy the album unless they're real hardcores and insist on having every GnR album ever released.? But the way the GH is selling and it's staying power prove that the GnR name has a lot of staying power and holds a lot of weight, compare it to the Motley Crue greatest hits which was off the charts not too long after its release, and that's a GH from a band with a much larger catalogue

The amount of hype and the aura of Chinese Democracy will have a lot of people buying it, even a lot of the Axl haters will buy it just so they can rip it and claim they gave it a chance

no.. curiosity and axl haters won't buy it.. they'll download it to rip on it and see how it is.. they're not gonna pay up for somethin they dont know is gonna be great

and i dont think people will give it a chance with an open mind.. because it'll be compared to appetite.. regarded as not real gnr since slash isnt in it.. etc etc

I would seriously doubt Axl haters will buy it but the curious might. We should face facts that this album probably won't be the greatest album in the history of the world, we can hope but it's unlikely. However as GH sales show the GNR name still carries a hell of a lot of weight so even if CD was crap it would still sell, if when CD comes out it's good (as the leaks suggest), say it's an 8/10 album then it will sell very well. With the right marketing this album could outsell most of the music out there today.

If the general opinion from the non-biased general public is that CD is better than UYI then I feel it will win back a lot of fans. Anybody who knows much about music knows it's very unusual for a band to produce 2 albums in their careers that are regarded as truly epic albums that go down in history and will never be forgotten. MJ has thriller, The Beatles have Sgnt Pepper, Queen have Night at the Opera, GNR have AFD and most will realise it's unlikely anyone involved with GNR and AFD will create an equally good or better album again. If the general music buying public must compare then it will hopefully be with UYI, it's the most recent original GNR album and Slash was in it and if CD betters UYI then people will have very little to whinge about in terms of comparing it old GNR.

[Minneapolisnewsman]

This album will be profitable.? It'll sell at least 8-10 million worldwide if not more.? In the US it'll sell out least 2-3 million on name and curiousity alone.? If it's a great album, which all signs point to, and people listen to it with an open mind, it will sell 4-5 million in the US and 10-12 million worldwide, maybe more

You look at the way Greatest Hits is selling, a GH for a band with only 3 real albums of original material has been on the US top 100 charts for 2 years now and has sold about 7 million worldwide, maybe more.? The thing is, people buying greatest hits are a younger generation, because most GnR fans aren't going to buy the album unless they're real hardcores and insist on having every GnR album ever released.? But the way the GH is selling and it's staying power prove that the GnR name has a lot of staying power and holds a lot of weight, compare it to the Motley Crue greatest hits which was off the charts not too long after its release, and that's a GH from a band with a much larger catalogue

The amount of hype and the aura of Chinese Democracy will have a lot of people buying it, even a lot of the Axl haters will buy it just so they can rip it and claim they gave it a chance

If the album sells 2.5 million in the U.S., during it's first full year out, and another 3 million overseas, it will be a huge success!  I would imagine, that is quite possible.  A hit single, the right image, and marketing will help. 

Along those same lines, the climate right now, is the best for rock acts in the U.S. since 1992!  With the continued crap on MTV and VH1, it seems that there is a surging underground interest in rock, and the high school kid's coming up are craving something with some raw power!!  Axl, has a quality like Jim Morrison, where high school kid's relate to him, during their right of passage.  I went to a rock gig over the weekend, and all the band's were late teens, early twenties--all were playing the heck out of guitars, pounding the drums, etc.  All loved GNR, and the crowd was the hipster type that set's trends.  If Sanctuary is reading, the time to strike is now!!!  People really want something new, and it's time for rock to rear it's ugly head again!!

http://www.laweekly.com/index.php?option=com_lawcontent&task=view&id=12763&Itemid=47#Continuation

[oldgunsfan]

^^For comparison's sake:
Use Your Illusion volume I & II, sold 2 million copies the first week the albums were out.  (from http://www.gnrinfo.tk/)

Also to say GH sold 7 million is a gross overstatement as it's sold about 2.5 mil copies here after two years.  Illusions topped that in 1.5 weeks.

IF CD sells 2 million in the US in the first year I will be surprised.  Axl probably has alienated 80-90% of the people that bought UYI albums in some way shape or form.  Of the people I knew that bought AFD & UYI, 0 said they buy CD.  Of course that's a small sample but reflective of the general attitude towards Axl Rose now.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

^^For comparison's sake:
Use Your Illusion volume I & II, sold 2 million copies the first week the albums were out.  (from http://www.gnrinfo.tk/)

Also to say GH sold 7 million is a gross overstatement as it's sold about 2.5 mil copies here after two years.  Illusions topped that in 1.5 weeks.

IF CD sells 2 million in the US in the first year I will be surprised.  Axl probably has alienated 80-90% of the people that bought UYI albums in some way shape or form.  Of the people I knew that bought AFD & UYI, 0 said they buy CD.  Of course that's a small sample but reflective of the general attitude towards Axl Rose now.

I was talking about 7 million worldwide, not 7 million in the US

Also, GnR has a new, younger fanbase thanks to who hasn't been exposed to the bad press and negative stigma that was attached to GnR during the mid-late 90s and early 00's.  GnR is seen as "cool" to like again, by the younger generation, the people buying GnR's GH probably aren't old school fans

[oldgunsfan]

There has to be an lbum release in order for people to buy it

After all this chatter and with these three leaks, we know almost as little as we did before the songs leaked

[Sagolik]

lets wait and see.. i think its gonna be huge?

[damnsmooth]

I think it will be way bigger than any of us could expect.  When the masses of idiots out there get there first real taste of Axl, all hell will break loose.  Just my opinion

[speed_stone]

I think it will be way bigger than any of us could expect.? When the masses of idiots out there get there first real taste of Axl, all hell will break loose.? Just my opinion

amen to that! and we will all be proud die-hards proclaiming "i told you so" at every oppertunity
i can't wait!

[oldgunsfan]

Just a guess, put I would say "get in the Ring" would be a start to the reason the media is down on Axl;  his attitude the last 12 years added to it; no new material in 15 years, carrying on the name as the only original member probably contributed as well.


But this is just a  :hihi:guess

[Sam]

Just a guess, put I would say "get in the Ring" would be a start to the reason the media is down on Axl;  his attitude the last 12 years added to it; no new material in 15 years, carrying on the name as the only original member probably contributed as well.


But this is just a  :hihi:guess

Yeah, thats a good guess. As far as the success of CD interms of album sales, it will get many free buys because of the mystical nature of it.  I mean, basically everyone who posts on this site will buy it the day it comes out. Beyond that, the album sales will be decided by the quality of the songs, which seem to be pretty good.