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Author Topic: Individualism vs Personal Responsibility  (Read 1928 times)
Walk
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« on: October 29, 2005, 09:56:57 PM »

This one's very difficult to comprehend. Individualism is celebrated by liberals, and personal responsibility by conservatives. However, they are often talking about the very same thing. Allowing people to invest their own money instead of depending on social security is certainly individualistic. So is allowing homosexuals to marry and adopt children. Yet, both of these beliefs are thrown to both sides of the political spectrum.

Libertarianism (paleoconservativism) is a belief that can unify these principles into a functionist paradigm. The government, or more specifically the federal government, simply avoids these issues by pushing them down to lower levels of government; sovereignty comes from the bottom up, not vice versa. If our 10th amendment were respected, both sides could be satisfied (or pissed off, depending on one's view) and the fed's influence would diminish. This isn't, unfortunately, going to happen.

Libertarianism died in 1865. The reason pot smokers in Oregon get years in prison instead of minor fines is because the big federal government has its moral opinion. It happens to be correct, but people in left coast states are angered. On the other hand, abortion is a "right" imposed on right thinking states from the liberal elite by abusing the supreme court's influence. It's the infamous 14th amendment (iirc) that was cited, the one that claims states can't violate someone's constitutional rights. This flawed argument even destroys local culture from local government, like a poor judge who wants the 10 commandments shown in a 99.9% christian county. But no, soverignty comes from the top down now!

I'm all for national unity, but forcing it on people reminds me of a Star Wars quote. The more one tightens his grip, the more people slip through his fingers. The best way to defeat liberalism is ALLOWING it to happen in SOME states. In a few years, those in the blue states will see their error as red states will have a higher quality of life and culture. We can them welcome them back with open arms, which is what the original intent of the peace treaty ending the Civil War was. Unfortunately, as it stands, the opposite effect rang true.
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BigCombo
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 01:15:08 AM »

Your last paragraph does not argue a point.  How are blue states going to lose their economic status, quality of life, and culture because of liberalism. 
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Walk
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 02:29:07 PM »

They're already worse off than red states right now, they're just not bad enough that they can realize their mistakes. Europe's an example of liberalism's destructiveness. Negative economic growth, 10%+ unemployment, a dislike for nationalism and pride, celebration of mediocre democratic art, etc. Right now, states like New York and California need the rest of America more than we need them. One of my main arguments is that liberalism isn't strong enough to stand on its own, so it perverts conservativism, like when comparing "individuality" with personal responsibility.

The libertarian approach to more heavily dividing liberals with conservatives would help better show the differences and why we're on the right side.
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Axls Locomotive
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 02:57:02 PM »

life is a balance...you need bits of everything to make it work...and one side against the other is just childish
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2005, 04:08:44 PM »

They're already worse off than red states right now, they're just not bad enough that they can realize their mistakes. Europe's an example of liberalism's destructiveness. Negative economic growth, 10%+ unemployment, a dislike for nationalism and pride, celebration of mediocre democratic art, etc. Right now, states like New York and California need the rest of America more than we need them. One of my main arguments is that liberalism isn't strong enough to stand on its own, so it perverts conservativism, like when comparing "individuality" with personal responsibility.

The libertarian approach to more heavily dividing liberals with conservatives would help better show the differences and why we're on the right side.

Alot of what is wrong with Europe economically is not applicable to the US.  Europe population is stagnant.  Obviously this impacts economic growth.  The US does not have this population problem.  Both skilled and unskilled laborers are immigrating to the US legally and illegally. 

The average blue state is not even close to socialist europe.  There is no universal health coverage,  union power is a fraction of what it is in europe.  Ironically, the biggest corporations in America wish the US had some of these socialist characteristics.  GM lost a billion dollars last quarter.  Much of the costs are from providing health care coverage to their workers and retirees.  Walmart only covers 40% of its worker for health insurance.  The rest....falls on the burden of the government through medicaid.   

What mistakes are blue states making in terms of political liberalism?  You claim eventually the blue states will realize their mistake after their economic prowess declines.  I don't see that happening.  Manufacturing has shifted from the the Northern blue states to the southern red states...but these blue states have stayed on top economically by creating service jobs. 

California relies on red states more than the red states rely on California?  Explain. 

All this talk about red states and blues states is stupid.  The US economy is linked to the rest of the world just as much as each state is linked to eachother.  I'd even argue that California is more affected by China, Taiwan, and India than Alabama, Missouri, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Flordia combined.  You need to realize that its not a matter of red or blue states, its a matter of countries.  The world is flat.  Chances are the customer service rep. you talked to about your computer wasn't in a call center in Lincoln, Nebraska, but a call center in Banglhore, India.  Every person needs to look at their own job and see if its outsourceable.  This includes white collar jobs as well.  India and China produce half a million engineers every year.  Firms like them not only because they cost 90% but also because they are 100% more productive. 

Essentially, this country needs to be more competitive.  Stop being known as the United States of terror fighting and spend money on tertiary education for all, universal healthcare, and recruiting the world's top talent instead of building walls.



 
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Dr. Blutarsky
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2005, 08:15:45 PM »

Libertarian concpts appeal to me. Anything that supports getting the government out of our daily lives is a good thing.
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