Lossless vs lossy

[svdv22]

Ok so judging the amount of replies in this forum I think it's save to say most people want lossless bootlegs audio.
I don't get it, that's why I opened this topic. Make me switch, make me collect lossless bootlegs too.

To begin with I do have lossless audio. Official released stuff, which I listen to via a decent audio setup.
I do hear the difference I just don't want bootlegs to be lossless because:

- It was (most of the time) recorded my someone in the audience
- It was not mixed
- It was not mastered
- It was not produced
(So no matter how good it sounds, relatively, it's still shit (no offense to the tapers, but if you like lossless audio you know what I mean)
- Now this is for everybody different but I don't listen to the bootlegs that much, I have them for the sake of collecting. If I do listen to them it's either via my computer (iMac) or in a car which both or not the ideal situations for lossless audio files.

So with this in mind: why would I wanna wait 4 times longer (download time) and need 3 more hard drives to store all the larger files?

Does anyone even agree with me on this? Or are we just going to agree on disagreeing

Note that this topic is not supposed to be about if somebody should share lossy or lossless but only about the pros and cons of it.

[One.In.A.Million]

My view on this is that as long as it's decent quality, which most MP3s' are these days, I am happy collecting MP3 bootlegs of shows. I am a person who has never checked out lossless recordings, simply because they require converting and also take up more space.

I just feel that for a recording that is not soundboard, or anything to do with the band. I feel it can't be significantly better to warrant making an effort to conciously collect lossless recordings rather than MP3s'.

If we are talking about master boots of soundboards, then yes maybe I would check out a lossless version. But for audience recordings, I have always just kept the format they have been recorded in. Even wav, as long as it's listenable, I honestly don't see the reason in worrying about getting it lossless.

But I say all this never being an avid collector of bootlegs, sure I collect audio of shows when I can. But I don't make an effort to get every single date, I'm more of a fan who loves travelling to see the band live, rather than collecting.

So I can't judge anothers' opinion, who loves lossless versions because they might have a different viewpoint than myself, which is understandable.

[Voodoochild]

^ I pretty much agree. When its a soundboard, than yes, I will download the losless. Otherwise, I couldnt care less, as it will end up on my ipod anyways.

To me works quite like SD video and HD video. What matters the most is the source of recording and then the way you will end up watching it.

[estebanf]

I simply want the best audio source that's available, and i am specifically talking about GNR shows.

If the best source available for a show is a 24 kbps Ogg Orbis file, im fine with it.

That's why i list lossy recordings (when they're the only/best source available) in my website.

I dont have problems with lossy recordings, in fact, I download/upload them. I must admit I can not understand why some recorders/uploaders make all that drama when someone ''dares'' to encode ''their'' recordings, but I try to respect that...

There's too many people out there who dont understand what collecting lossless bootlegs is about. You dont have to collect FLAC files blindly. FLAC is just an extension in the end. You can make a FLAC out of a 1 kbps mp3 file, will you ''collect'' that? And if you think a shitty audience FLAC recording is ''better'' in terms of collectionism than a 96 kbps soundboard recording, then you've never understood a damn thing about this all.

And I really consider that collecting the full ''meta-data'' which comes along with the well done lossless recordings is absolutely necessary. Only freaks collect lossless files, I admit that (im one of them). But only the stupid ones can download / trade such enourmous files without feeling the need of knowing *what* are they downloading. But the whole lineage-source-md5-properinfofile thing is not very popular in this trading community

[Mechanical-Worm]

I have to agree with estebanf on this one. I'm a huge collector of Rob Zombie, Tom Petty and Guns N' Roses. So when I download those bands shows I try to have a lossless recording being its the best source but if the show wasn't recorded that way then I am fine I will download a file and have it that way. I just like to collect and think of it as a hobby like coin collecting. You want a mint version but if you can't have a mint one at the time you will go with the one thats good enough and maybe someday you'll find a better version.

Thats my view. I have no problem with people sharing those mp3 versions as long as they don't get mixed up in the trading community of someone taking an mp3 version and converting it to a lossless format and trying to pass it off that way when its really lossy.

[pdaldridge]

Having done a bit of reading, my understanding from reading articles by audio engineer's etc is that MP3's are compressed versions of lossless files which dependant on the conversion rate take out high frequencies etc, such that a 256kps mp3and above takes out anything that the human ear cannot differentiate from the lossless version anyway, so i figure if you collect genuine 256kps mp3's and above then you've collected the best audio that you'd be able to hear.

[svdv22]

An mp3 does more damage than that but you do need a decent audio setup to hear the difference.
And you need decent recordings.

[russkwtx]

I have said for years if that a recording is shitty it will be shitty in Flac or whatever lossless version.
If it is a great recording, you won't be able to hear any difference on your computer or in your car if it is a mp3.
The only real difference with a mp3 is with headphones or a great audio system.
So I am glad that this topic has been revisited again.

[speedfreak]

the O.G. way is lossless...  I collected all of the bootlegs that I wanted (and more) by the 86-93 GNR and they were all lossless.  Even the unlistenable shit-quality 999th GEN arena recordings.  Sure mp3s are fine for Ipod or personal, but if you're gonna be trading, collecting and distributing material in any kind of real way its gotta be lossless.   Esteban knows the truth and so does anybody else I respect in these GNR internets...  Getcha mind right!!  It's like saying....

Most people prefer Vida over Susan...  I don't get it.
vs.

A Lambo takes 3 times more gas than the Hello Kitty smart car...
vs.

GNR takes 4 times longer to start their concert
vs.

[Alan]

Having done a bit of reading, my understanding from reading articles by audio engineer's etc is that MP3's are compressed versions of lossless files which dependant on the conversion rate take out high frequencies etc, such that a 256kps mp3and above takes out anything that the human ear cannot differentiate from the lossless version anyway, so i figure if you collect genuine 256kps mp3's and above then you've collected the best audio that you'd be able to hear.

the inaudible frequencies have an impact on the audible ones, so collecting 256k is still not the best you can hear, however without high end speakers/amp/headphones most people wouldn't notice the difference.

[svdv22]

the O.G. way is lossless...  I collected all of the bootlegs that I wanted (and more) by the 86-93 GNR and they were all lossless.  Even the unlistenable shit-quality 999th GEN arena recordings.  Sure mp3s are fine for Ipod or personal, but if you're gonna be trading, collecting and distributing material in any kind of real way its gotta be lossless.   Esteban knows the truth and so does anybody else I respect in these GNR internets...  Getcha mind right!!  It's like saying....

Most people prefer Vida over Susan...  I don't get it.
vs.

A Lambo takes 3 times more gas than the Hello Kitty smart car...
vs.

GNR takes 4 times longer to start their concert
vs.

Funny comparison. I didn't think you got my point though. It's what russkwtx said.
It's like vida vs susan when you're blind, like lambo vs hello kitty smart car when you don't know how to drive, like guns n' roses vs justin bieber when you're not there.