Duff McKagan Talks To SUBvert Magazine

How to adapt and thrive in the changing music industry, by former Guns n Roses and Velvet Revolver guitarist Duff McKagan

May 6th, 2009

Duff you?ve been in the music industry a very long time and been extremely successful, but what?s been the biggest barrier you?ve had to overcome?

Getting sober. I wouldn?t be alive today otherwise. My pancreas blew up, so my body made up my mind for me. The decision was literally made for me. It really was, and I could have continued using (drugs) after I got out of hospital, but I would have died within a week or two. So that?s the biggest life changing thing I?ve had to deal with. Because when I got out of the hospital I finally said ?OK I want to live now how do I do this??.

I had no fucking idea how to be sober. I remember going to the store the first time and I was shaking. It was as if I was on acid. I remember taking the money out and handing it over and I thought everybody was staring at me. I just couldn?t really deal with anything at that time. I didn?t even know how to do the most basic things. I had to take it from being completely detached from my body to now; being totally comfortable in my own skin.

So the business side of being in the band; is that something that you had an interest in?

No. Not initially. I never dreamed I would make any money playing music. That?s not the reason why I got into it.

Money wasn?t your main motivation?

No not at all! When Guns and Roses formed and the five of us got together it was like we would be in a room and the moment we struck the first chord we knew we had something. We didn?t know we were going to sell millions of records. We just knew we could create something special and that?s all we really thought about. We just wrote some songs and managed to get a record deal.

When did Guns and Roses start getting popular?

Guns and Roses started getting successful when we started performing at proper clubs. We were pretty smart. It was before the internet and stuff, so we would do like old skool mailing lists and people would sign up and we would mail them out information about our next gig.

How did you get record labels interested in your band?

We just hustled and promoted our gigs by passing out flyers and people started coming out to watch us, because we were something different. Our audience were punkers and metal kids, rockers, chicks and dudes and you know the whole thing. We started selling out clubs and then selling out on multiple nights and then record companies would come to see us.

We thought it was just an opportunity to get free meals, so we kinda dragged it out for as long as we could. Once one record company jumped in, all the rest did, so we were getting free lobster dinners and cocktails. You know, that was pretty cool and we knew all along which company we wanted to go with.

How did you decide which record company to choose?

Geffin was a little boutique record company and it was small so it wasn?t like, ?How am I going to find our guys office??, they had this building right on sunset and our A & R guy Tom Zutaut who signed us, he now manages a band called McQueen. Well, he really believed in Guns and Roses. He was telling us shit like. ?You guys are going to be bigger than Zeplin? and we were like ?That?s what every A & R guys says to their band, whatever dude we?re just glad you love us?.

We just found some people who were into us for who we were and who weren?t trying to change anything about us. Some record companies we talked to didn?t know what they were talking about. We were the youth. We knew what was going on, they didn?t. They had no idea.

The record companies at the time were finding older producers. An older producer is fine, but you have to be in touch with what?s going on and bring some fresh ideas that the kids don?t know about, but these guys were bringing disco beats, and we were like ?what are you talking about??.

How did you work out the financial side of things?

I didn?t know how to equate business with music for a really long time. Well none of us did. We got an accountant and we started making money, and we really ruled by fear. We asked where they lived and we pretended we knew what was going on. We had an intimidation thing going on. We?d say ?We?re keeping and eye on you and you better not fuck us over.?, and we were crazy enough that they would have been very foolish to fuck with us at that point. You have to remember this was a very long time ago.

We would get monthly statements and I couldn?t read them, and in 1994 I was pretty messed up, so I got sober by the grace of god and I had a lot of free time on my hands, because you waste a lot of time being a junkie and an alcoholic. I started going through my filing cabinets with all these monthly statements for the previous five years. I tried to read it again with a clear head. It still didn?t make sense. So I went to a business entry level class. Within the curriculum there was a section on reading financial statements. There it was all of a sudden. This veil got lifted off. I was able to put it all together and I found out that i didn?t get ripped off, so it was OK, but that really kinda peaked an interest for me continuing on with business.

?Record companies are sort of this outdated bloated machine?

Do you have a different attitude towards record labels now than when you started out?

It?s a completely different scenario now than it was then. That was 20 years ago and there was no internet. People were buying records and the cd format was just coming out. Now, record companies are sort of this outdated bloated machine, that works only if you are a well established artist.

Radiohead saw the light. If you have a large record company, what they bring to the table for you is marketing money. If they spend a million dollars on you in marketing, you?re never gonna see a dollar. People don?t sell records like they used to. You would have to sell three million copies just to pay that back, not to mention all the other expenses.

So Radiohead made it known this was their marketing plan. We?re gonna give our record away. Pay what you want dude. That was on the front of every business website, every news channel everywhere, and they ended up selling it for tons of dollars. It used to be years ago that a tour was promotion for your record, so the tour was the loss leader, now the record is the loss leader, the record is an advertisement for your tour.

?We do things now which were completely taboo before?

We have to be a lot smarter out here on the road with what we do and how we spend our money. How we fly, how we travel. Where we stay. The size of your crew. I sat down with the bass player of Kelly Clarksons band, and we were discussing it. We had eight crew and it was a great show. There?s no fucking doubt about that, and she had twenty five people on her crew playing the same places. Staying at the same hotels. She?s traveling much larger than us, spending a lot more money.

I?ve seen this with some young bands. They don?t seem aware that everything the record companies spends money on, its eventually coming out of their pockets

Yeah I know, we do things now which were completely taboo before. We sell our music for ring tones that?s the new way, commercials for Victoria Secret, as long as you can marry up with things that you perceive as cool. Woman?s lingerie is cool to us. That?s great. That makes sense. It?s sexy and cool and it works.

We do a meet and greets and that?s advertised on our fan site. You can buy a golden pass. We employ a girl that brings out the VIPs and she takes them on a tour of the venue and shows them backstage before we get there, and then we?ll go down and do this meet and greet, and Slash and I, we?ll hang out signing pictures.

Is that important for you to have that contact with the fans?

Its great you know. Slash and I would always go out by the buses and sign autographs, and I still do that, but that was the only way the fans could get contact, but now we have the meet and greet for people that can afford it, this helps us pay for the tour. Unless you?re playing arenas which we also do, you?re not making a load of money. We purposely play the UK because this is where the crowds are fucking awesome and this is the first place that really hoisted our band onto its shoulders and they were really great to us.

?Slash, Matt and I, we?re like are our own best critics?

Do you ever have doubts about music you?ve produced?

All the time! oh yeah. Well the good thing about being in a band is you have the support of the other guys. I wouldn?t know how to be a solo artist really. I mean I have a band called ?Loaded? and it?s kinda like a solo project, but I still have a band. Guys that I get input from. But with Velvet Revolver, especially Slash, Matt and I, we?re like are our own best critics. We know how to criticize each other when we?re writing new material, to where it?s not hurtful, ?Dude I really like that riff you know. Maybe lets try it like this, try something else?, so we all trust each other. If we bring something in no ones gonna laugh at it and we?re all gonna try and make it the best it can be.

Edited to fit, continue reading (photos/illustrations) here: http://www.subvertmagazine.com/blog/duff-mckagan/