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Author Topic: US and french differences  (Read 2817 times)
Jessica
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« on: May 01, 2007, 06:52:28 PM »

This was taken from an american lawyer's blog on myspace and i found it pretty interesting

There is a famous course of study, developed at Yale University, which teaches French through the immersion method.  It's called French in Action, and it teaches by following a story about a French girl and an American guy who is spending time in Paris.  Each episode is broadcast on TV -- kinda like a soap opera!

There is a text book, in French of course, except for Lesson 1, Introduction.  This lesson explains The Story, tells the author's views of How to Learn French, and has a section on Language and Culture.

In this blog, I reprint this last section:

Language and Culture

What you will learn in French in Action reflects life in France now.  Even though the course is based on a story, what you will hear and see in the various situations that are presented is the real thing:  you will encounter living French that has not been simplified or expurgated, the same French you might hear spoken among members of a family, among friends, on the street, on the radio, and on television.

You will see and hear real French men and women.  In French in Action you will see France:  its people, their customs, quirks, clothes, food, cities, homes.  And you will see it as the French see it.  Who knows, you may even experience a certain amount of culture shock!  You may find some things strange, some people odd, and some situations bizarre.  You may even be startled by the contrasts between the world you inhabit and the world of the French.  Just remember, the French might be equally startled by you!

One contrast you may notice is that French behavior is different from American behavior in the area of relationships between men and women.  Male-female relationships are of perennial interest in all cultures.  French culture being no exception.  In every society, relationships between the sexes are governed by expectations that are culturally conditioned.  These expectations are taken for granted by the members of society, but an outsider unfamiliar with the society's cultural framework may not share its expectations, and may find the behavior in some way peculiar or questionable.

The relationships between people that you will see portrayed in French in Action reflect cultural assumptions and notions that are specifically French.  But because these assumptions are not identical to American expectation in some areas, the behavior they underlie may seem unfamiliar, even inappropriate.  Let us take one example from lesson 11, Jean-Pierre, the loser, tries to pick up our heroine, Mireille.  In most cultures, including French culture, the pick-up artist is considered a social pest, and indeed Jean-Pierre is portrayed throughout French in Action in a negative light, rejected and rebuffed at every turn as a pathetic heel.  He tried to strike up a conversation with Mireille, and he ends up striking out.  The put-down comes from Mireille herself, who gets rid of him in a way that make little sense in terms of American cultural assumptions but that is absolutely appropriate in the French cultural system:  she totally ignores him.  And it works.

Why does Mireille ignore Jean-Pierre's intrusion instead of getting up and telling him off?  Aren't Jean-Pierre's actions an outrageous example of aggressive male behavior -- of sexual harassment?  And isn't Mireille's silence a harmful example of female passivity?  While observers can disagree about how much of a threat Jean-Pierre actually is to Mireille in this episode, it is important to understand that her response to him is appropriate and effective in the terms of her own culture.  This is true in large part because silence has a very different social function in France than in the United States.  Sociologists who study the two cultures point out that Americans use speech to maintain strangers at arm's length (making small talk about the weather, for instance), whereas in the French cultural system the act of speaking to a stranger suggests the exact opposite:  that the speaker wants to create a connection.  This is particularly true when the situation involves physical attraction; from the point of view of French culture, a verbal acknowledgment of the other person's presence, even in anger, only sets up a relationship and encourages further communication.  As a result, Mireille's silence, which to American eyes can seem passive, even acquiescent, is in terms of her culture the very best way to keep Jean-Pierre at bay.

One thing to keep in mind, then, as you explore French in Action is that the situations and relationships it portrays take place in the context of a specific culture, and that projecting American expectations and sensibilities on that context can result in unnecessary misunderstanding.  Although it is natural to want to form an opinion of the French from an American point of view, it is also important to perceive them as much as possible from their own point of view.  We are different from the French, and the French are different from us, and that variance challenges us to extend our capacity for cultural understanding and communication.  So vive la difference!


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Dr. Blutarsky
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2007, 07:02:17 PM »

So the rudeness of the French is not really rudeness at all, they just don't want to engage the person in conversation for fear of creating a connection with someone they wish not to.
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Jessica
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2007, 07:13:22 PM »

So the rudeness of the French is not really rudeness at all, they just don't want to engage the person in conversation for fear of creating a connection with someone they wish not to.

exactly, what is being considered rude is just a cultural difference amongst many many others..
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cliffburton
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 07:35:32 AM »

here we go again.? moral and cultural relativism.? oh what genius ideas!? Roll Eyes

Edit:  Let me elaborate that I don't think the French or anyone ignoring someone that bugs this is necessarily wrong or rude.  Just that saying it works for them so it's okay, or that there is no right and wrong is bullshit.  That appears to be the underlying them of this article.
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 07:52:01 AM »

here we go again.  moral and cultural relativism.  oh what genius ideas!  Roll Eyes

i know, ethnocentrism is sooooo much better. ?_?
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cliffburton
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 07:55:00 AM »

Better to take a stand on something that you can defend rather than rationalizing every odd, creepy and yes, immoral thing that people do.  I fail to see why it's offensive to say some groups do some things better than others.  A culture that lives in huts, doesn't read or have a written language isn't equal to one that has and defines human rights as well as an advanced social structure.
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 11:12:47 AM »

Better to take a stand on something that you can defend rather than rationalizing every odd, creepy and yes, immoral thing that people do.? I fail to see why it's offensive to say some groups do some things better than others.? A culture that lives in huts, doesn't read or have a written language isn't equal to one that has and defines human rights as well as an advanced social structure.

ahahah ahahah ahahaha
man you ARE funny.



Btw, THIS is excatly the arguments that colons were using in the History of Mankind anytime "a civilized culture" brings "civilization" to "savages".


It's also what i use when i tell guys like you that I go out with models, and they date ugly chicks.





ps: i'm kidding on the last part? Grin, no offense, i dont even know you, for all i know you date models too Smiley


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polluxlm
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2007, 11:44:54 AM »

Better to take a stand on something that you can defend rather than rationalizing every odd, creepy and yes, immoral thing that people do.? I fail to see why it's offensive to say some groups do some things better than others.? A culture that lives in huts, doesn't read or have a written language isn't equal to one that has and defines human rights as well as an advanced social structure.

Wtf? You comparing France to people living in huts?

I don't think it should be offensive to point out pros and cons either, but if it's America up against France I'd think twice before pushing my money in...
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2007, 11:47:42 AM »

i dont think he is comparing france or anything, he just thinks cultural relativism is garbage.
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polluxlm
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2007, 12:10:11 PM »

i dont think he is comparing france or anything, he just thinks cultural relativism is garbage.

Since the topic is america-france maybe he should choose his words more carefully next time then.
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 12:33:03 PM »

i dont think he is comparing france or anything, he just thinks cultural relativism is garbage.

Since the topic is america-france maybe he should choose his words more carefully next time then.

how are you doing by the way?
we never talk, things are good ?

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polluxlm
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2007, 12:38:11 PM »

I didn't know we were intimate hihi

You know, I'm doing.
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2007, 12:43:34 PM »

#1: I want to take this class. 
#2: I don't know much about French culture, but I do agree with the assessment of the American position, in this passage.  The first instinct is to be polite, and then to get angry when the subtle hints in your politeness aren't spotted.  But, as in all things, you can overgeneralize.  I'm not sure American politeness applies to, say, New Yorkers quite so much as Mid-westerners.
#3: I like the French how they are.  If there's one thing I dislike, it's my country's "cultural imperialism" (or cultural globalization, if you prefer).  As a tour guide in London once told me "Everywhere there was an execution, there is now a McDonald's!" 
#4: The only thing I don't like about the French is their stubborn insistence that no others can produce quality wine.  rofl
But since I don't drink a lot of wine, that's not a big concern.
#5: I also like that WAT-EVER manages to drop "I date models" into every thread.   hihi
#6: I'll like you even more, if you elect that sexy president!  Sarkozy is smokin'!  smoking
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 12:56:22 PM »


#1: I want to take this class.?
you just want to score french girls.
#2: I don't know much about French culture, but I do agree with the assessment of the American position, in this passage.? The first instinct is to be polite, and then to get angry when the subtle hints in your politeness aren't spotted.? But, as in all things, you can overgeneralize.? I'm not sure American politeness applies to, say, New Yorkers quite so much as Mid-westerners.
Americans are indeed nice and welcoming, THAT I agree. and they smile a lot. particulary in georgia/south carolina.
#3: I like the French how they are.? If there's one thing I dislike, it's my country's "cultural imperialism" (or cultural globalization, if you prefer).? As a tour guide in London once told me "Everywhere there was an execution, there is now a McDonald's!"?
i ate McDO last night, friends forced me.
#4: The only thing I don't like about the French is their stubborn insistence that no others can produce quality wine.? rofl
But since I don't drink a lot of wine, that's not a big concern.
Yeah well. L.A. wine supposed to be ok i guess.
#5: I also like that WAT-EVER manages to drop "I date models" into every thread.? ?hihi
Damn, You got me ! (but that's the only good thing about it, telling people about it)
#6: I'll like you even more, if you elect that sexy president!? Sarkozy is smokin'!? smoking
Sarkozy makes me puke. S?go is actually very hot. Beautiful hair, beautiful clothes. I used to think that about Hilary "dog" Clinton

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2NaFish
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 01:00:07 PM »

different cultures have different norms.

hardly rocket science.
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« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 01:11:19 PM »

different cultures have different norms.

hardly rocket science.

How are you 2NaFish?

i'm good.
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Jessica
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« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2007, 01:49:51 PM »

I think Sarko's hot, in a napoleon kind of way, if he divorces, i marry him.. hihi
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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2007, 05:14:50 PM »

Did somebody here try and say that Americans are polite?

State bird down here is the finger........
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« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2007, 06:15:46 PM »

I took a year of french in college, and we used the French in Action textbook.  I never knew it was developed at Yale.

I remember Mireille and the zany videos we had to watch.   I dont remember how to conjugate the irregular verbs though.

I should dig up that textbook and post the funny dialogue pieces, at some point.  A lot of them were hilarious.
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