Talk about a sick case - I hope they give her the DP

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

actuallyyou guys want to go back far in history and build up a chain of event, and then you stop to " the bomb ended the war"

just like if history ended that day. no.

1st - we dont know what outcome the war would have arose if the americans didnt drop a freakin nuclear bomb on civilians.
2nd - the outcome of the drop go way further the simple end of the war: hate towards americans, it changed your country and it changed japan, it had massive impact on world geopolitics. america has turn way more extreme since that day, and i wouldnt be surprise if .... butterfly effect ... 911 comes from there: it built america and the way they treat things ... and in the end you guys get 2 planes in the head.

it would be just like saying " thank god for 911, at least we were able to attack iraq ... "

in the long run, the bomb was a bad idea.
and i stand my point NOTHING good comes from violence. (from a macroscopic point of view, me punchin someone is no big deal)
when there is violence, there are losers
when there are losers there is hate and jealousy, then the social fluid is broken, and you get more violence
easy.

financial violence > poor people > crime

i'm going very fast here, but you guys needs to get out of superman's comics and such. the story does not end when supermand kicks lex luthor ass.

PEACE

[25]

wasn't germany's downfall the fact that their army was spread so thin?

Sort of. By the latter stages of the war they were spread thin, but when they first took on Russia they were well-stocked and looking good for it. Then again, so was Napoleon.

[25]

in the long run, the bomb was a bad idea.
and i stand my point NOTHING good comes from violence. (from a macroscopic point of view, me punchin someone is no big deal)

In the long run the bomb had many positive effects. Fewer wars, way fewer casualties in war even in really bloody (by today's standards) wars. Fear of "the bomb" has kept western countries from fighting each other for decades. Millions of lives haven't been wasted in pointless wars because leaders have been forced into diplomacy (Mr. Bush is a rebel).

Of course, there was also the cold war. But how many people died as a direct result of the cold war? Hardly any. Maybe a few spies. That's it.

The bomb has been good to us. We've just treated it poorly.

[Guns N RockMusic]

I don't think Austria or the Sudetenland had much reason to resist Germany.? Hitler himself was Austrian, they were annexed, they weren't invaded.?

With regard to Japan, I think it speaks more of their determination than the quality of the American soldier.? Next to the German soldier, i think the Japanese soldier would be ranked second best in the war, followed by the Russian closely followed by the American.? Actually having your country invaded is great motivation.... well for most countries at least.

I think both territories had every reason to resist, Austria didn't have the means and we gave Germany the Sudetenland because we were pussies. Austria was annexed, by invasion. The Germans literally told the Austrian government that the German army would be marching on their capital and that they could either concede power to Hitler or fight for it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put that on my top ten list of mutually beneficial and diplomatically successfull annexations.

I don't understand why the US had such a hard time with the Japanese though. Were they just unable to land a ground force, did the Japanses just fight too hard? Better weapons? Logistics? It's always logistics.

Better training. ?America had the best logistics and our ground weapons were supperior to Japan, but we would have lost millions in a ground invasion. ?Too many Japanese and surrender was not perceived as an option. ?So America dropped 2 atomic bombs back to back under the illusion that we had plenty more where that came from. ?Fortunately, Japan didn't call our bluff and surrendered.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

in the long run, the bomb was a bad idea.
and i stand my point NOTHING good comes from violence. (from a macroscopic point of view, me punchin someone is no big deal)

In the long run the bomb had many positive effects. Fewer wars, way fewer casualties in war even in really bloody (by today's standards) wars. Fear of "the bomb" has kept western countries from fighting each other for decades. Millions of lives haven't been wasted in pointless wars because leaders have been forced into diplomacy (Mr. Bush is a rebel).

Of course, there was also the cold war. But how many people died as a direct result of the cold war? Hardly any. Maybe a few spies. That's it.

The bomb has been good to us. We've just treated it poorly.

so if the bomb had dropped on the some us city and the war had ended, you would have thought the same way ?

the bomb was stupid. and you know it. it's just your mind trying to protect yourself from the fear of knowing that you're not safe.


anyway. maybe one day, if your whole family dies in pain and suffering in the warm blow of a nuclear strike, you'll understand
maybe i will too.

edit : on and yeah, 911 was positive effect too ? 

[2112]

Some people I definately would be able to kill without hesitation.
I want torture to be a legal punishment against paedophiles and shit like that, rapists etc.

[Guns N RockMusic]

in the long run, the bomb was a bad idea.
and i stand my point NOTHING good comes from violence. (from a macroscopic point of view, me punchin someone is no big deal)

In the long run the bomb had many positive effects. Fewer wars, way fewer casualties in war even in really bloody (by today's standards) wars. Fear of "the bomb" has kept western countries from fighting each other for decades. Millions of lives haven't been wasted in pointless wars because leaders have been forced into diplomacy (Mr. Bush is a rebel).

Of course, there was also the cold war. But how many people died as a direct result of the cold war? Hardly any. Maybe a few spies. That's it.

The bomb has been good to us. We've just treated it poorly.

so if the bomb had dropped on the some us city and the war had ended, you would have thought the same way ?

the bomb was stupid. and you know it. it's just your mind trying to protect yourself from the fear of knowing that you're not safe.


anyway. maybe one day, if your whole family dies in pain and suffering in the warm blow of a nuclear strike, you'll understand
maybe i will too.

edit : on and yeah, 911 was positive effect too ??

The Japanese were the agressors in WWII. ?They bombed Pearl Harbor and we bombed two of their cities. ? I never understood the opposition to the "atomic" bomb. ?If you're against war in total, fine that's a different argument. ?But to oppose just the nuclear/hydrogen/atomic/cobalt bomb is just stupid. ?It's a more efficient bomb. ?WAT-Ever's comment are inane at best. ?Anyone who claims nothing good has come from war is an idealist and not able to discuss things on a rationale level. ?Topics like that may garner attention in academia, but no where in the real world. ?You can argue against the US's use in Japan, but to argue against war all together. ?

Since it's ok to wish hypothetical disaster on someone, I wish the allies never would have saved your country WAT-Ever and then you wouldn't have been able to live in France or whatever African/Asian country your family immigrated from because the Nazis would have destroyed both nations..


PEACE

[Surfrider]

A blame the French for this woman's actions......

You could blame Bush also.  The war in Iraq diverted resources that otherwise could have stopped this woman.

[The Dog]

in the long run, the bomb was a bad idea.
and i stand my point NOTHING good comes from violence. (from a macroscopic point of view, me punchin someone is no big deal)

In the long run the bomb had many positive effects. Fewer wars, way fewer casualties in war even in really bloody (by today's standards) wars. Fear of "the bomb" has kept western countries from fighting each other for decades. Millions of lives haven't been wasted in pointless wars because leaders have been forced into diplomacy (Mr. Bush is a rebel).

Of course, there was also the cold war. But how many people died as a direct result of the cold war? Hardly any. Maybe a few spies. That's it.

The bomb has been good to us. We've just treated it poorly.

so if the bomb had dropped on the some us city and the war had ended, you would have thought the same way ?

the bomb was stupid. and you know it. it's just your mind trying to protect yourself from the fear of knowing that you're not safe.


anyway. maybe one day, if your whole family dies in pain and suffering in the warm blow of a nuclear strike, you'll understand
maybe i will too.

edit : on and yeah, 911 was positive effect too ??

The Japanese were the agressors in WWII. ?They bombed Pearl Harbor and we bombed two of their cities. ? I never understood the opposition to the "atomic" bomb. ?If you're against war in total, fine that's a different argument. ?But to oppose just the nuclear/hydrogen/atomic/cobalt bomb is just stupid. ?It's a more efficient bomb. ?WAT-Ever's comment are inane at best. ?Anyone who claims nothing good has come from war is an idealist and not able to discuss things on a rationale level. ?Topics like that may garner attention in academia, but no where in the real world. ?You can argue against the US's use in Japan, but to argue against war all together. ?

Since it's ok to wish hypothetical disaster on someone, I wish the allies never would have saved your country WAT-Ever and then you wouldn't have been able to live in France or whatever African/Asian country your family immigrated from because the Nazis would have destroyed both nations..


PEACE

Randall, trying to reason with wat-ever is impossible, he doesn't have rose colored glasses on, he got the lasik surgery for rose colored vision.  The US never would have had to drop the bomb on japan had it not been attacked at Pearl.  Oh but wait, Wat-ever probably thinks we shouldn't have retaliated for that right??  SO now we bring the fight to them and we start to win, we can continue to fight, prolonging an already bloody, terrible war YEARS in length, killing literally millions of american troops and japanese soldiers AND civilians.  The japanese mindset at the time was no surrender whatsoever.  There were ever hardly any POWs from the japanese side b/c they would just rush into machine gun fire or kill themselves with honor when they knew all was lost.  so what do you do?  drop a bomb to kill several hundred thousand, or wage a war that will kill millions?  How do you tell your troops to go to their almost certain death when we have a weapon that can end the war?  Watever has this notion that everyone should fight fair.  that everyone should get the same number of weapons and the same type of guns....its beyond retarded. 

25, your take on the bomb preventing wars, I 100% agree.  Violence can also work as a deterrant. 

[The Dog]

Real nice WAT-Ever.? You really have no understanding of war and tactics.? War has solved plenty fo problems, let's say allowing you to speak French instead of German.?

Will you guys ever stop saying that? It is so dumb.?

If it weren't for the French we'd be singing "God save the Queen" right now.........how 'bout that one?

I only say it as a witty way to prove a point that sometimes violence does solve things.  A lot of allied troops died on Normandy and on the way to France so the French could be free again.  To forget that it took lives and fighting and death and violence to do so is pretty ignorant.

[The Dog]

I don't know what books you've read, but had it not been for America, England would have fallen (Churchhill said they could only go another month or so) and all of Germany would have been focused on Russia.

I don't know so much about the US/Japan side of things, if obliterating two civilian cities with the most dangerous technology of the age was the only way to beat Japan,? that doesn't say much for the US military at the time. Or maybe it just speaks volumes for the Japanese. Could go either way.

The bomb on Nagasaki almost didn't happen, I forget all the details but the story is pretty riveting and really interesting.  I do vaguely recall the pilots dropping the bomb in an area with less population and more industry, for what its worth.

I don't think it says anything about the capabilities of the US military or about the Japanese but more about what it would have taken in terms of time and lives to take Japan.   Its sad that anyone at all had to die and the effects of the bomb are chillling to see/read about, but in the end, the bomb saved more lives then it took.

[SLCPUNK]

To forget that it took lives and fighting and death and violence to do so is pretty ignorant.

Who said that?

[The Dog]

To forget that it took lives and fighting and death and violence to do so is pretty ignorant.

Who said that?

Our friend Wat-ever said NOTHING good comes from violence...

[Axl4Prez2004]

To forget that it took lives and fighting and death and violence to do so is pretty ignorant.

Who said that?

Our friend Wat-ever said NOTHING good comes from violence...

Yup, I must say, HannaHat and I do agree on alot of issues.  So much so, I'd definitely offer you the chance to be my vice president. 

My goodness, someone brought up the A-bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  Give me a break.  Upwards of a million U.S. soldiers would have lost their lives...not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Japanese soldiers and civilians that would have died with a land invasion. 

Unfortunately partisan politics gets in the way of very easy solutions to tough problems.  Why don't we agree somewhere in the middle.  To make the left happy (and me even though I don't and never have used illegal drugs) why don't we free the harmless marijuana users and make space in the prison system for the ones we really need separated from civilized society.  That's where we make the right happy and we severely punish the violent criminals.  Very long sentences for the most heinous acts.  Abuse of those who can't defend themselves cannot be tolerated and must be treated appropriately.  Rehabilitative prisons (for the 1st time offenders and small-time non-violent criminals) will be much different than the hell-holes I would put men and women like the one mentioned at the top of this thread in.  Food (bland gruel, bologna sandwiches every meal, etc.), water, shelter (cold winters hot summers) dark and dank, and air would be provided.  No books, no pictures, no human contact, no writing instruments, and like I said in an earlier post...on the 1 year anniversary, a gun provided to this miserable scumbag.........with no bullets.  99% of the time this human scum would try to off themselves.
 
  May I also add, tubes tied after a female tests positive for drugs while pregnant.  The root of crime begins in childhood.  Children who become parents statistically raise children that are more likely to be criminals than the general population.  I'm sick of our world being ruined by children who grow up raised by unfit parents.     

[Sin Cut]

i kill her so _____ i feel good ? she won't hurt anymore ?
i put her in prison so ______ she feels bad and i can laugh at it?
i put her in a mental institute and try to help here change so _______ i've changed something ?

[...]

you steal a car ? we send you 3 months in africa and you make food for a village and clean their shit.
at least the world get something out of it.

People go to prison as punishment for their crimes. Positive side-effect; for the duration of their sentence they're not a threat to their victims or the general public.  How is that a bad thing?

And that last sentence you wrote might just be the silliest idea I've ever seen expressed on the issue of crime and punishment. "Yeah, make 'em work at a car-wash in des moines for six months, that'll achieve. . . something!"

the idea how having her removed from society so she does not commit other crime is
1- natural, any kind of solution (prison, institute, forced work abroad) does it
2- so it's not the property of the prison system.


so prison positive outcome is : they are not a threat
forced work : they are not a threat AND they create value

you do the math

prison and DP comes from an old need of human beings to be closer to god. they process the will of god on earth.

just watch the reaction of people when they hear the sentence of a criminals: " oh man ! im so happy !! he got what he deserved !! "

deep inside we are scared. and seeing a criminal paying for his crime in a ruthless way, makes us more safe, as a society. it's all about " getting back at someone" and as we know
getting back at someone does not bring anything but .... a sinful pleasure.

Now you can't be serious! Just have yourself stand in the kids shoes. I'm pretty sure a part you want to pay back.

And also, you don't want that to happen to anyone else.

How come, even dog has morals, take a dog who sees something "wrong" and it will pull it's leash and bark and if it get's loose I doubt it will attack the little girl.

And someone doing this has not.

Ask 1000 people their oppinnion about this and the majority will want to put these motherfuckers down. And I, for a fact, despise people like this share our genepool.

so we're dogs ?  dmx ?

i know 1000 people would go for it, but hey, people think with emotions. your words sweat emotions and feelings, not reasoning.
when you want to beat up someone, it's not your brain thinking, it's your heart. weakness.

violence has NEVER EVER solved anything ... at a macroscopic level.

Wrong.

Violence solved the independence of my country.

And it really is my brain thinking, I don't want people like that to share my genepool.

Also, if you get in a fight, you usually lose if you're just plain angry. But if you're very big and angry you can win 

[25]

the bomb was stupid. and you know it. it's just your mind trying to protect yourself from the fear of knowing that you're not safe.


anyway. maybe one day, if your whole family dies in pain and suffering in the warm blow of a nuclear strike, you'll understand
maybe i will too.

I stand by my previous post. Compare, for example, the number of soldiers and civilians who died during WW2 to the number of soldiers and civilians killed in any other war since the first atomic/nuclear bomb was dropped. The bomb has proven to be a fantastic deterrent against large scale ground wars.  IMagine how many people would have died in a USSR/USA conflict had there not been the threat of mutual destruction hanging over both parties. No other piece of military technology has been such a positive force. Perhaps you can appreciate it better if I word it this way;  As long as the missiles stay in their bays, the nuclear bomb is a major benefit.

[The Dog]

the bomb was stupid. and you know it. it's just your mind trying to protect yourself from the fear of knowing that you're not safe.


anyway. maybe one day, if your whole family dies in pain and suffering in the warm blow of a nuclear strike, you'll understand
maybe i will too.

I stand by my previous post. Compare, for example, the number of soldiers and civilians who died during WW2 to the number of soldiers and civilians killed in any other war since the first atomic/nuclear bomb was dropped. The bomb has proven to be a fantastic deterrent against large scale ground wars.? IMagine how many people would have died in a USSR/USA conflict had there not been the threat of mutual destruction hanging over both parties. No other piece of military technology has been such a positive force. Perhaps you can appreciate it better if I word it this way;? As long as the missiles stay in their bays, the nuclear bomb is a major benefit.

I think your assessment is extremely accurate if you're talking about from the 40s through today.  but in the near future, possibly even today, i'm not so sure that still rings true.  more and more countries have the bomb or are on their way to possessing it - i think its only a matter of time before a nuke is sold to a terror organization or gets put in the hands of an unstable dicator/leader (N. Korea) and is used.  If one bomb drops there will be many more to follow. 

IN the last 30-40 years, the fear of the bomb was a great deterrant to mass war, but now the fear of the bomb is closer to a reality.   Scary to think about.