My Chinese Democracy theory

[ElNonoPololo]

Sorry, I just don?t think the whole ??they told Axl to re-do it?? is plausible.

1- A new Guns CD is guaranteed to sell like fuck, just because of the name. Even if the record sounded like something out of 1980, I don?t think they would tell Axl to start again from scratch, specially since they know that could take another decade. It?s better to release an album you know it?s bound to sell AT LEAST pretty well, than to wait for an album that may never come.
2-Axl has made it quite clear that he is going to release CD when he thinks it?s ready. After sweating blood over that album for years, nobody is going to tell him: ??Hmmmm, no. Complete do-over.??
He would flip out, Axl-style, and sue everybody and their mothers to release the damn thing. He wouldn?t say: shit, sorry, I promise Ill do better next time. 
3- GNR New Album Sucks Too Much To Be Realeased, says record label, Back To The Drawing Board For Axl. It?s just too good a story to be neglected by the media. If something like this had really happened, it would be all over the place. If this rumour had even the slightiest foundation, there?s no way it could have been kept from all the desperate journalists out there.


Just my 2 cents...

[jbenzz]

I agree, I don't see how the label could just say no.  Given how much they spent on it, they definetly had to be in the studio every once in a while to see if they were getting their money's worth.  They wouldn't say NO, then send him back to the studio with more of their money.  And if this happened after/at the same time as they cut him off, then it's equally implausible.  IF Axl was happy with the product, he would have just said take it or leave it.  They'd rather release something then nothing and there's nothing in his contract saying that the album has to be good.

[D]

I agree, I don't see how the label could just say no.? Given how much they spent on it, they definetly had to be in the studio every once in a while to see if they were getting their money's worth.? They wouldn't say NO, then send him back to the studio with more of their money.? And if this happened after/at the same time as they cut him off, then it's equally implausible.? IF Axl was happy with the product, he would have just said take it or leave it.? They'd rather release something then nothing and there's nothing in his contract saying that the album has to be good.

For the exact reason u just said. If they are spending all this cash, they arent gonna release a CD full of 6  minute plus epics with no radio friendly hit singles.

Think of GNR, This band has no care in the world for Radio singles, they are one of the only bands that I can name who do not rely on huge hooky choruses.

Think of some of the greatest GNR hits of all time.

SCOM's chorus

Whoa oh oh oh SCOM
whoa oh oh oh Sweet love of mine


NOvember Rain doesnt technically even have a chorus.


DOnt your cry tonight, I still love you baby
Dont you cry tonight
Dont you cry tonight there's a heaven above u baby and dont u cry tonight


they dont rely on Radio friendly sing along hooky choruses.

I think maybe the record label was scared that this might not work in today's disposable music era.

Releasing the demos proved to the label that Axl is still relevant and his brand of epic unformulatic,unstructured musical masterpieces will be successful and will find an audience.

[ElNonoPololo]

I think maybe the record label was scared that this might not work in today's disposable music era.

I think the record label is way more scared of the prospect of not having anything to release at all... At this point I don?t think they care anymore about the number of potential singles on the album, they just want the damn album out already. Cut their losses, move on. The album is going to sell like crazy no matter how crappy it is, and they know it, just as they know that hearing Axl saying ??CD is done?? is something that happens once in a lifetime. They are not going to risk another decade of silence.

And, personally, I think the whole ??unconventional GNR singles?? pretty ridiculous. You cannot say NR wasn?t radio friendly... It was a fucking piano ballad with ??single?? all over it. It was just a little too long, but it was cut by most radios  down to 4 min or so anyway.
Same thing with Don?t Cry...Is this one of ?? Axl?s epic brand of unformulaic, unstructured songs??
And SCOM... jeez.

So you think the record label turned down CD because it was filled with NRs, Don?t Cries and SCOMs?

[Axlative]

And, personally, I think the whole ??unconventional GNR singles?? pretty ridiculous. You cannot say NR wasn?t radio friendly... It was a fucking piano ballad with ??single?? all over it. It was just a little too long, but it was cut by most radios  down to 4 min or so anyway.
Same thing with Don?t Cry...Is this one of ?? Axl?s epic brand of unformulaic, unstructured songs??
And SCOM... jeez.

So you think the record label turned down CD because it was filled with NRs, Don?t Cries and SCOMs?

So what do you think are the main characteristics of radio friendly songs? NR is fucking great! That's why it got the airplay it did despite the length.

The stations' airplay time is scarce. Playing 6+ minute songs is catering to the fans of that one song while they could be catering to the fans of at least two songs, thus maximizing the number of people liking the station's tunes in that period of time. With commercial stations that's all that matters! Therefore with the current trends in music there's always at least two "good enough" tracks to be played rather than single epic song. That's what defines radio friendliness.

NR has a radio friendly sound, but the whole track is not radio friendly.

[jbenzz]

I agree, I don't see how the label could just say no.? Given how much they spent on it, they definetly had to be in the studio every once in a while to see if they were getting their money's worth.? They wouldn't say NO, then send him back to the studio with more of their money.? And if this happened after/at the same time as they cut him off, then it's equally implausible.? IF Axl was happy with the product, he would have just said take it or leave it.? They'd rather release something then nothing and there's nothing in his contract saying that the album has to be good.

For the exact reason u just said. If they are spending all this cash, they arent gonna release a CD full of 6? minute plus epics with no radio friendly hit singles.

Think of GNR, This band has no care in the world for Radio singles, they are one of the only bands that I can name who do not rely on huge hooky choruses.

Think of some of the greatest GNR hits of all time.

SCOM's chorus

Whoa oh oh oh SCOM
whoa oh oh oh Sweet love of mine


NOvember Rain doesnt technically even have a chorus.


DOnt your cry tonight, I still love you baby
Dont you cry tonight
Dont you cry tonight there's a heaven above u baby and dont u cry tonight


they dont rely on Radio friendly sing along hooky choruses.

I think maybe the record label was scared that this might not work in today's disposable music era.

Releasing the demos proved to the label that Axl is still relevant and his brand of epic unformulatic,unstructured musical masterpieces will be successful and will find an audience.

I just find it hard to believe that the label would be unhappy with the album and then give him more money to spend even longer for it to come out.  There's a time when they jus tdecide to cut their losses.

[WARose]

I agree, I don't see how the label could just say no.  Given how much they spent on it, they definetly had to be in the studio every once in a while to see if they were getting their money's worth.  They wouldn't say NO, then send him back to the studio with more of their money.  And if this happened after/at the same time as they cut him off, then it's equally implausible.  IF Axl was happy with the product, he would have just said take it or leave it.  They'd rather release something then nothing and there's nothing in his contract saying that the album has to be good.

For the exact reason u just said. If they are spending all this cash, they arent gonna release a CD full of 6  minute plus epics with no radio friendly hit singles.

Think of GNR, This band has no care in the world for Radio singles, they are one of the only bands that I can name who do not rely on huge hooky choruses.

Think of some of the greatest GNR hits of all time.

SCOM's chorus

Whoa oh oh oh SCOM
whoa oh oh oh Sweet love of mine


NOvember Rain doesnt technically even have a chorus.


DOnt your cry tonight, I still love you baby
Dont you cry tonight
Dont you cry tonight there's a heaven above u baby and dont u cry tonight


they dont rely on Radio friendly sing along hooky choruses.

I think maybe the record label was scared that this might not work in today's disposable music era.

Releasing the demos proved to the label that Axl is still relevant and his brand of epic unformulatic,unstructured musical masterpieces will be successful and will find an audience.

are you serious??

"take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty.....oh please take me home"

"welcome to the jungle, we got fun n`games...."

these are probably two of the catchiest tunes in the rock world

[D]

This is a huge misconception but as much as its a legendary song today, WTTJ was not a huge hit.

PC with all the guitar solo's and its length wouldnt be considered a radio friendly single today.

Let me take a timeout to explain.


All GNR songs are amazing. Radio friendly has nothing to do with the quality of a song.


Lets say CD was chalked full of Estranged.


Estranged is my personal favorite GNR song of all time but u couldnt have a CD full of nothing but these epic songs no matter how great they are.

U have to have 2 or 3 singles for the casual to non fan so u maximum record sales.


Record labels use to care about releasing great music first, record sales and profits second.

not in today's musical landscape, its all about making money first, then the quality of an album.

A label would rather have an album with 3 good songs and 9 filler tracks as opposed to 12 great outstanding non radio friendly epic tracks.

This is why they have A&R people like John Kalodner who must approve the CD before it can ever be released.

Watch Aerosmith the making of Pump.

He tells Steven Tyler, u gotta have 4 or 5 songs that I want to hear and that the public will want to hear "What It Takes,"Angel,Hole IN mY soul" all these Ballads and then with the other 6 to 8 u can do what u want.


Dont Cry and Patience are the only 2 singles I can think of that fit into the standard normal radio format.

the biggest record buying demographic probably ranges from 12 to 18.

so artists are expected to have the big easily digestible HIT single.



LA Reid made Bon Jovi go back into the studio and rework some of "Have A Nice Day"

If Geffen spent 8 million and didnt hear the radio friendly hit single, im sure they wouldve gave Axl a few more million to produce that.

[sandman]

D - i think there's probably some truth to your theory.

everyone is focusing on you stating that GnR is not a singles band. that point isn't relevant.

the theory is that the record label wants to hear a few songs that are radio hits. and knowing that axl makes long, complex songs, there probably were not any on there.

and by 2000, the record label had spent millions, the music scene was changing drastically, and record sales were falling fast.

there's no guarantees in the industry, and the record label has to make a ton on this album.

every mainstream band faces pressure to make hits.

and if all this is true, there would have been tension between axl and the label.

[D]

Great post Sandman.

By GNR not being a singles band people are getting confused.

GNR songs are so great they ultimately become hits but they arent manufactured,crafted and produced with "HIT" in mind.

For instance it would be like Axl recording November Rain and saying "Well its 8 minutes long so we should take out a solo and shorten it down to 4:30 so it will be on the radio.

that is being a singles band, setting out with the mindset of writing radio friendly 3 minute easily digestible catchy singles.

GNR arent a band that has ever done this which is why I said they arent a single's band.

Today's music is all about the single and first week sales.

[WARose]

This is a huge misconception but as much as its a legendary song today, WTTJ was not a huge hit.

PC with all the guitar solo's and its length wouldnt be considered a radio friendly single today.

Let me take a timeout to explain.


All GNR songs are amazing. Radio friendly has nothing to do with the quality of a song.


Lets say CD was chalked full of Estranged.


Estranged is my personal favorite GNR song of all time but u couldnt have a CD full of nothing but these epic songs no matter how great they are.

U have to have 2 or 3 singles for the casual to non fan so u maximum record sales.


Record labels use to care about releasing great music first, record sales and profits second.

not in today's musical landscape, its all about making money first, then the quality of an album.

A label would rather have an album with 3 good songs and 9 filler tracks as opposed to 12 great outstanding non radio friendly epic tracks.

This is why they have A&R people like John Kalodner who must approve the CD before it can ever be released.

Watch Aerosmith the making of Pump.

He tells Steven Tyler, u gotta have 4 or 5 songs that I want to hear and that the public will want to hear "What It Takes,"Angel,Hole IN mY soul" all these Ballads and then with the other 6 to 8 u can do what u want.


Dont Cry and Patience are the only 2 singles I can think of that fit into the standard normal radio format.

the biggest record buying demographic probably ranges from 12 to 18.

so artists are expected to have the big easily digestible HIT single.



LA Reid made Bon Jovi go back into the studio and rework some of "Have A Nice Day"

If Geffen spent 8 million and didnt hear the radio friendly hit single, im sure they wouldve gave Axl a few more million to produce that.

nah....   i didn`t talk about "hit singles". (although i think, that WTTJ and PC would do great even today...)    i just said catchy refrains...   and WTTJ and PC have two of the most catchy refrains i know

[A Private Eye]

Great post Sandman.

By GNR not being a singles band people are getting confused.

GNR songs are so great they ultimately become hits but they arent manufactured,crafted and produced with "HIT" in mind.

For instance it would be like Axl recording November Rain and saying "Well its 8 minutes long so we should take out a solo and shorten it down to 4:30 so it will be on the radio.

that is being a singles band, setting out with the mindset of writing radio friendly 3 minute easily digestible catchy singles.

GNR arent a band that has ever done this which is why I said they arent a single's band.

Today's music is all about the single and first week sales.

You make a good point about NR, I believe at the time of UYI being recorded Axl said if he wasn't happy with the production of NR he was going to quit music altogether. And I think being told to cut NR to 4:30 would probably have made him unhappy.

Your theory is interesting and certainly a more likely possibility than some we've heard, although I'm not sure your correct on the response to the leaks being what set the ball rolling. Looking back it seems the wheels were in motion at the time of the RS interview approx a month before there were any leaks. Suggesting that leaks or no leaks we would have been looking at a summer tour and possible CD release in 06.

[mikegiuliana]

singles band plus mtv whores ,well at least they were