Axl and Techno: was it worth it? (speculation)

[bazgnr]

First off, a few disclaimers: this is all pure speculation, obviously.  Second, as a relative newcomer to this board, I have scanned previous threads, but I admit I?m not fully up on board etiquette (apologies in advance), and much of what I?m thinking is based upon rumor to begin with ? I?m far from an authority on GnR lore these days, just a very hopeful and loyal fan; nonetheless, it?s a way to pass the time until official word comes from the band, management, etc., and I?m curious as to what others might think.

One of the rumors concerning why the original lineup split was over musical direction, yes? ? Axl wanted to infuse an industrial / techo element to the band, whereas Slash wanted to keep things blues-based.  At the time of the Slash /Axl split, it seemed that both parties were at extreme ends of the spectrum in terms of musical influence.

Following that Slash?s exit, the first we hear from post-Slash Guns is ?Oh My God,? which is arguably the most industrial Guns song that has emerged with to date, and it certainly reinforced to me that the wedge caused by Axl?s industrial inclinations were likely truth rather than just rumor.  What followed, though, was a long period of relative silence while Axl got new players in place.  What?s interesting to me is what has happened in the post-OMG era, a few random observations which follow:

?The Blues? is perhaps my favorite of the Chinese Democracy tracks, yet I can?t help wonder both about the title and the lyrics, given ?blues vs. techno? seems to be at the core of the musical differences cited w/ Slash.  Was it written in response to or influenced by the musical & ideological difference between Axl & Slash?

And going through the other demos, TWAT, Catcher in the Rye, Better ? there is certainly an industrial element in the demo versions (sampling, drum beats, etc.), but to me, it doesn?t seem anywhere as extreme as the sound of OMG.  What if, now that the songs are coming out, Axl and Slash realize that their views weren?t quite so far apart as they originally seemed?  That Axl?s industrial vision didn?t really take Guns in as radical a direction as they (Slash & Axl) both originally thought?  Especially if Axl realizes or feels that he could essentially be making the same new songs with the original lineup still in place?  Or to have Slash realize that he left/was fired/whatever over musical differences that, in the end, turned out to be a non-issue?  Would that make it all the more trying for Axl to move forward with a new lineup?

Yes, this is all completely speculative, but it?s an interesting context in which to look at all the other rumors going around ? Slash & Duff returning to the band, the ?who?s in/out of the band? stuff, etc. 

More than anything, though, I just want to hear Chinese Democracy rather than the ?demo-cracy? songs that have leaked, regardless of who is in the band.  Until that day, there?s just too much damn time to think about things like this.  Thanks for reading.

[godiva]

Hi and welcome to the board. I think the band split up over a lot more than just musical differences. Sure, it's what we've been told over the years, but I think a clashing of egos had more to do with it. Considering the recent press release from Axl's attorney I think it will be a long shot for Slash to work together with Axl again. My guess is that the two camps haven't been as friendly to each other as it seems in the press and a lot went on behind the scenes (lawsuit, comments to the press). Just my two cents. Rock on 

[bazgnr]

Hi and welcome to the board. I think the band split up over a lot more than just musical differences. Sure, it's what we've been told over the years, but I think a clashing of egos had more to do with it. Considering the recent press release from Axl's attorney I think it will be a long shot for Slash to work together with Axl again. My guess is that the two camps haven't been as friendly to each other as it seems in the press and a lot went on behind the scenes (lawsuit, comments to the press). Just my two cents. Rock on?

Thanks for the welcome!? I agree that there's more to it than we'll ever know, and that it would be a long shot for the two to work together again.? And you're right - I think ego was by far the biggest cause for any rifts that developed.? At this point, Slash working with Axl again would likely only delay the album ever more, so really, I'm quite okay with things staying the way they are;  still, everytime I hear the line "it leaves a taste that's bittersweet / That's called 'the blues,'" the scenario I described is what comes to mind...

[KillYourIdols]

You make a lot of good points. And yeah, a lot of them have been debated to death years ago.

We'll probably never know what "really" happened. I seem to remember from the past Axl saying something, and I'm paraphrasing, that Slash just didn't want to work hard on a new record. Maybe Slash just got tired of working with Axl, or not working with him, or whatever. Who knows.

At this point, I'm over the breakup, made my peace with Axl using the GNR name, I really like all the leaks and the live songs, so I'm happy. And for all we know, CD could be all over the place. Think of the differences between like CITR, Maddy, the Blues, etc. So maybe the record will have some songs that are "industrial" or "techno."

BTW--have you heard Silkworms? 

[bazgnr]

You make a lot of good points. And yeah, a lot of them have been debated to death years ago.

We'll probably never know what "really" happened. I seem to remember from the past Axl saying something, and I'm paraphrasing, that Slash just didn't want to work hard on a new record. Maybe Slash just got tired of working with Axl, or not working with him, or whatever. Who knows.

At this point, I'm over the breakup, made my peace with Axl using the GNR name, I really like all the leaks and the live songs, so I'm happy. And for all we know, CD could be all over the place. Think of the differences between like CITR, Maddy, the Blues, etc. So maybe the record will have some songs that are "industrial" or "techno."

BTW--have you heard Silkworms??

I haven't heard "Silkworms."  I'm guessing it has a heavy industrial sound to it?

[KillYourIdols]

Even more techno-ish than industrial. My guess is you won't like it...very...different from any song heard from the new band. Also try and find a song called Riyadh and the Bedouins. I actually like that one.

[bazgnr]

Even more techno-ish than industrial. My guess is you won't like it...very...different from any song heard from the new band. Also try and find a song called Riyadh and the Bedouins. I actually like that one.

I'll try to find them...thanks!

[godiva]

Even more techno-ish than industrial. My guess is you won't like it...very...different from any song heard from the new band. Also try and find a song called Riyadh and the Bedouins. I actually like that one.

That?s a very nice way of describing Silkworms.  Very..... different (that would be the understatement of the year!)  You just made my day! 

[bazgnr]

As far as "Silkworms" - is there a demo version, or are you referring to live versions?  Thanks...

[godiva]

Live version. The only demo version we have of CD so far: TWAT, IRS, Better, CITR
Live: Maddy, Blues, CD, Rhiad, Silkworms (did I forget one? I have the feeling I forgot one.)
Studio: OMG

Hope that helps you out. Rock on (and check your PM) 

[Axl4Prez2004]

As far as "Silkworms" - is there a demo version, or are you referring to live versions?? Thanks...

Yikes!  Bazgnr, cover your ears!    

[duga]

Live version. The only demo version we have of CD so far: TWAT, IRS, Better, CITR
Live: Maddy, Blues, CD, Rhiad, Silkworms (did I forget one? I have the feeling I forgot one.)
Studio: OMG

Hope that helps you out. Rock on (and check your PM) 

You forgot 'My favorite pillow' 

[bazgnr]

As far as "Silkworms" - is there a demo version, or are you referring to live versions?? Thanks...

Yikes!? Bazgnr, cover your ears!? ??

Okay, then.  I've been duly warned, it appears.  Does anyone know if this track is currently slated to be on the album?

[jimb0]

As far as "Silkworms" - is there a demo version, or are you referring to live versions?  Thanks...

Yikes!  Bazgnr, cover your ears!    

Okay, then.  I've been duly warned, it appears.  Does anyone know if this track is currently slated to be on the album?

No it was just Dizzy and Pittman fucking around, however it might be on the third album but probably not the first