The mixing/mastering of CD

[Falcon]

.. but if the chooses to go that route then that would definately not be a bad thing, as the illusions were a glimpse into the direction he wanted to go with his music.

For my personal tastes it would be a bad thing, a glimpse I didn't care for in '91 and one I have no plans on taking in 2005 and beyond.

Just proves that no matter what it sounds like when/if CD does see the light of day, universal acceptance is probably not in the cards.

[sergitou]

IMO, the mixing and to a lesser extent the mastering of CD is one of the main reasons for the lengthy wait

In the NYT article, reference was made to a library's worth of archived recordings - there must be thousands upon thousands of tracks to wade through. The mixing process, or the piecing together of these tracks, must be a painstaking process - the volume, pitch, frequency and spacing of each track must be considered in relation to the tracks that it sits with...

I read an article with Bill Price recently and he talked about the mixing of November Rain and what an intricate, time consuming process that was. I think we're in broad agreement that there will be a lot of epics of this nature on CD, so that further adds to the monumental task at hand.

There are no doubt many other reasons for the amount of time (touch ups, legal probs, Axls perfectionism/obsessivness) but if the band has finished their respective parts, I'd say the mixing and mastering is going to take a long time.

What are peoples thoughts?

I think you are wrong...., the problem is that SHIT HAPPENS in Axl's life..., and that means legal shit with ex members, clear channel, geffen, and a lot of shit we don't know...

Anyway... I have hope we will see Chinese Democracy..., maybe at the end of this year..., and also.. the original line up reunited... like 10 years later...

[dustNroses]

HAS ANYONE HERE LOOKED BEYOND GUNS N ROSES? AXL HAS PROBABLY SLIPPED A FEW BY US ALREADY..... CO WRITES, VOCALS UNDER AN ALIAS, ETC . fuck, i had my caps lock on..

[nesquick]

I hope it won't be overproduced. UYI 2 is PERFECT

[Nytunz]

Defination of overproduced? I think thats a bit defused word

[jameslofton29]

Go listen to UYI. You will then know what overproduced is. Another good example of an overproduced album is Def Leppard's 'Hysteria'.

[ClintroN]

Go listen to UYI. You will then know what overproduced is. Another good example of an overproduced album is Def Leppard's 'Hysteria'.

are you serious, i dont get it......really.

i heard someone say the same thing n' last time i played Illusions i listend again real hard.........overproduced    no fuckin' way

[jameslofton29]

I guess you need something to compare to UYI to see its overproduction. Go listen to AFD first, then listen to UYI. UYI ois just too perfect. I'm not saying they suck, they're great albums. They just tried to hard at achieving perfection. Its not just the ballads either, its all of it. Have you heard the Dont Cry demo? Thats how it would have sounded had it been on AFD. They almost put the DC demo on UYI. They didnt. Probably because it would have really stuck out on the albums.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Go listen to UYI. You will then know what overproduced is. Another good example of an overproduced album is Def Leppard's 'Hysteria'.

?

 ? Interesting...I disagree with you saying UYI's are overproduced. ?I think there are some songs I would have taken in a different direction, for example Double Talkin' Jive NEEDS another damn verse, the song is classic, but lyrically it just ends. ?Breakdown doesn't end soon enough, and the ridiculous "outro." scars what should be a classic. ?Live and Let Die is too polished...and if that is synonymous with "overproduced," then I'll agree with you there. ?LALD 2002 is 1000 x's better than off of UYI 1. ?If the UYI's went in that "raw, unpolished, (forgive me here-VR direction)," then we wouldn't have had Coma the way it's presented on UYI 1 which totally kicks ass. ?i.e. the medical staff, sounds, chicks' voices, etc. ?Even compare the demos of November Rain (guitar and piano versions) to the finished product and you can appreciate the "production" of this song.

 ? I will give you one example of "overproduction" from UYI 2...the 14th track never should have been produced. ?

-Axl4prez2004 ?

PS ?enough of the past, like August 18th said, if we get songs like Maddy and The Blues, (and I'll say a finished product of IRS) we're in for a treat. ?

[jameslofton29]

Axl4Prez, GREAT post! You hit the key elements about UYI. You are dead on about Double Talkin Jive. The song had alot more potential. Its one of my favorites. But you're right, there's something missing. You also hit the nail on the head with Live and Let Die. That song is the perfect example of overproduction. I loved the song when I seen GNR in July 1991, hated it when UYI came out. Good interpretation of Locomotive. I always skip the dull outro. Another example would be Dust N Bones. This song is way too polished, and in the reviews of the album, it goes largely ignored. But when GNR played the song live in 1991, it was a highlight of the show. It truly kicked ass. The album version just sucks the 'kick ass' vibe out of the song. Axl has said he wished he could have done more work on UYI. Just imagine UYI if Axl had worked another year or two on it. Scary thought indeed.

[UziSuicide05]

Interesting...I disagree with you saying UYI's are overproduced. ?I think there are some songs I would have taken in a different direction, for example Double Talkin' Jive NEEDS another damn verse, the song is classic, but lyrically it just ends. ?Breakdown doesn't end soon enough, and the ridiculous "outro." scars what should be a classic. ?Live and Let Die is too polished...and if that is synonymous with "overproduced," then I'll agree with you there. ?LALD 2002 is 1000 x's better than off of UYI 1. ?If the UYI's went in that "raw, unpolished, (forgive me here-VR direction)," then we wouldn't have had Coma the way it's presented on UYI 1 which totally kicks ass. ?i.e. the medical staff, sounds, chicks' voices, etc. ?Even compare the demos of November Rain (guitar and piano versions) to the finished product and you can appreciate the "production" of this song.

You're absoutely right about DTJ and Breakdown. The crazy racing commentary by Axl at the end of Breakdown seems to overshadow a very good guitar riff.

[Axl4Prez2004]

  Thanks for the kind words on the post Jameslofton and uzisuicide.  Personally, I blame those technical issues on the difficulties the band had at that time of working together as a team.  I don't think Axl would let that happen again.  What we probably are falling victim to at the moment is that old saying, "Paralysis by Analysis."  Ya know, analyzing something so many times and from so many different perspectives that you become motionless. 

  Great point about Dustnbones too.  I forgot to mention that.  Also, now that I think about it, I prefer the live version of Perfect Crime way more to the studio version.  When Axl sings, "It's per-fect!," on the cd it doesn't have the same caustic effect.  Yeah, I know, now I think we're all overanalyzing!  Dammit Axl we need this album!  We're all going out of our minds!!!   

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

? Interesting...I disagree with you saying UYI's are overproduced. ?I think there are some songs I would have taken in a different direction, for example Double Talkin' Jive NEEDS another damn verse, the song is classic, but lyrically it just ends. ?Breakdown doesn't end soon enough, and the ridiculous "outro." scars what should be a classic. ?Live and Let Die is too polished...and if that is synonymous with "overproduced," then I'll agree with you there. ?LALD 2002 is 1000 x's better than off of UYI 1. ?If the UYI's went in that "raw, unpolished, (forgive me here-VR direction)," then we wouldn't have had Coma the way it's presented on UYI 1 which totally kicks ass. ?i.e. the medical staff, sounds, chicks' voices, etc. ?Even compare the demos of November Rain (guitar and piano versions) to the finished product and you can appreciate the "production" of this song.

i gotta disagree. you are not talking about production. you are talking about writing / creation.
saying that DTJ needs one more verse (and i strongly agree !!!) is not saying that it's under or over produced, it's just that i wasnt well written n your oprnion.

same thing with breakdown.
but here i disagree, the outro is cool. the only thing that keeps this song to be a FUCKIN CLASSIC is the chorus. "breakdown !" screams and the "let me hear it now"  dark voice suck...

but its not production, its writing.

your comments about adding voices, sounds, medical staff, are production i guess. but adding a verse is writing....

[god of thunder]

Does anyone know who did/does the mixing and mastering (may we all hope that the record has been handed over....)? Maybe if you look at these peoples work you may know if your fears are justified!

I once read an interview in which somebody said that VRs contraband was massively overproduced, he was mentioning sth. with oversampling/ volume too high and stuff I did not quite get...

[nesquick]

same thing with breakdown.
but here i disagree, the outro is cool. the only thing that keeps this song to be a FUCKIN CLASSIC is the chorus. "breakdown !" screams and the "let me hear it now"? dark voice suck...

but its not production, its writing.

I totally agree. with a better chorus that song would have been one of the greatest song of all time. same for 14 years with the "14 years of silence etc...". Axl's screams on the chorus damage the song. it's too "violent", it sounds out of context considering the song (blues-rock vibe). But in term of pure songwriting and production, it's GENIUS.