The Most Expensive Album Never Made

[michaelvincent]

Dont flame me for comparing GNR to Motley. I just used Motley as a reference.

Actually that is a pretty good analogy. The record Motley Crue did after firing Vince Neil was very good. No one in that band had played as well as they did on that album before it, and not since.

And it sold jack. Because it wasn't Motley Crue to a lot of people, and they had lost a key part of the puzzle. Regardless of what you think of Motley Crue I think you can apply that logic to a Guns N' Roses without Slash or Duff. CD will probably be amazing. That doesn't mean it is going to sell.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Eva, interesting question!! I would have to say no. I think the perfection thing came about as people's excuses for this album taking so long. I could be wrong. He might have said that somewhere, but I doubt it.

yeah... ?we've heard it used so often over the years over and over again... i was beginning to wonder if this was based on anything Axl has said.

It's not what he says but his actions the speak of perfectionism. When he was with old GNR and now wanting to hold up release dates cause he didn't feel it was ready. What producers have said about his reactions to them saying to him the tracks are great, what are you waiting for...that kind of thing leads me to believe anyway that he is a perfectionist.

i was asking that also in the other thread... ? Has Axl ever referred to himself as a perfectionist?

It is the kind of thing some people pride themselves on... and say about themselves... ? but, I can't recall Axl ever saying this about himself.

Yeah, I know other people have that opinion of him... ?but, I really wonder if its just a case of them not seeing whatever it is that he sees in what he was doing.

Trying to be true... trying to express a very specific emotion... to convey a certain mood... perhaps something that is very personal and wanting to make sure you express it faithfully... ? ?Is that perfectionism? ?

Gets me thinking....
Many have said "there's no such thing as perfect!" in reference to what they believe Axl is attempting to achieve.

this statement make sense.... ?afterall we are talking about artistic expression...
something that can not be quantified or evaluated by any sort of universal unit

but is there such a thing as expressing yourself with utter honesty... ?is this not pure truth?
And is not something that is pure - in essense perfect?

[Saul]

wasnt it brian may who called axl a "perfectionist" in that audio interview from a few years back?

[killingvector]

Eva, interesting question!! I would have to say no. I think the perfection thing came about as people's excuses for this album taking so long. I could be wrong. He might have said that somewhere, but I doubt it.

yeah...  we've heard it used so often over the years over and over again... i was beginning to wonder if this was based on anything Axl has said.

It's not what he says but his actions the speak of perfectionism. When he was with old GNR and now wanting to hold up release dates cause he didn't feel it was ready. What producers have said about his reactions to them saying to him the tracks are great, what are you waiting for...that kind of thing leads me to believe anyway that he is a perfectionist.

i was asking that also in the other thread...   Has Axl ever referred to himself as a perfectionist?

It is the kind of thing some people pride themselves on... and say about themselves...   but, I can't recall Axl ever saying this about himself.

Yeah, I know other people have that opinion of him...  but, I really wonder if its just a case of them not seeing whatever it is that he sees in what he was doing.

Trying to be true... trying to express a very specific emotion... to convey a certain mood... perhaps something that is very personal and wanting to make sure you express it faithfully...    Is that perfectionism?   

Gets me thinking....
Many have said "there's no such thing as perfect!" in reference to what they believe Axl is attempting to achieve.

this statement make sense....  afterall we are talking about artistic expression...
something that can not be quantified or evaluated by any sort of universal unit

but is there such a thing as expressing yourself with utter honesty...  is this not pure truth?
And is not something that is pure - in essense perfect?

Unfortunately, since the money invested in this project is largely not axl's, he does have a responsiblity to get this project out. Even a painter could not sustain a project on artistic principles if his materials were purchased on credit.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

why do YOU think Geffen hasn't "done something" about it to date?

[killingvector]

why do YOU think Geffen hasn't "done something" about it to date?

I believe they have cut him off financially. The Times reported, and this wasn't disputed, that axl had to move to a new studio for the 'finishing touches'.

[Saul]

why do YOU think Geffen hasn't "done something" about it to date?

me? about the album?

I'll answer anyways .. I think a combination of things , 1st off axl could have some "take my sweet ass time" clause in the contract. Or maybe they just have alot of confidence in the project. Or maybe yet they did indeed stop funding the recording as the NYTimes article said so it aint costing them any money now and any "improvements" axl makes to the album which would help make them more money is out of axl's own pocket.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

Which brings us back to, can they force the album out?  Since they did stop the funding and Axl has to come up with the rest of the money on his own to finish by not funding, it's sorta like a hands off from Geffen.   So now is Merck responsible for GNR as his management to Geffen to get this out or could it be what Saul said "take his time" and as a result of that, we either see it this year or years from now or we don't ever see it.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

if they did this then it was because the contract allowed them to

so it goes to reason that the contract also allows Axl to do whatever he's doing

my point being that whatever terms they agreed to in their contract - both parties are responsible to uphold them ?

If he's not been held responsible to some time frame - Geffen has thier reasons for allowing it.

Good questions would be: ?Is Axl determined to realize his vision regardless of the contract? ?And is Geffen also willing to forgo some of the terms to allow him to do so?

why do YOU think Geffen hasn't "done something" about it to date?

me? about the album?

I'll answer anyways .. I think a combination of things , 1st off axl could have some "take my sweet ass time" clause in the contract. Or maybe they just have alot of confidence in the project. Or maybe yet they did indeed stop funding the recording as the NYTimes article said so it aint costing them any money now and any "improvements" axl makes to the album which would help make them more money is out of axl's own pocket.

while i was posting my reply to KV, I read your post Saul. ?

I believe that you touched on quite a few viable possibilites for consideration.

If CD is past it's 'deadline' yet, Axl continues to work on it with his own money... ?I'd say there is a lot to respect about that.
And I do think that Geffen believes in what they've created... And I'm really glad that Axl himself believes in what he's doing enough to personally fund its completion.

I think that'd make the CD all that much sweeter an accomplishment for him.

[Saul]

Let's all keep in the back of our minds that Brian Wilson keep "smile" to himself for twenty years.

[August 18th]

Let's all keep in the back of our minds that Brian Wilson keep "smile" to himself for twenty years.

that was for completely different reasons.

[Saul]

Let's all keep in the back of our minds that Brian Wilson keep "smile" to himself for twenty years.

that was for completely different reasons.

what were the reasons?

besides , it's still relevant to the conversation. If Brian Wilson was able to keep smile from being released , even if he had a contract dealing with the recording and costs thereof then surely the comparison can be made to axl and his democracy project. 

[W. Botaxl Rose]

There's no way in hell that Axl is putting up his own jack to finish this album. He might be a little crazy, but he's not stupid enough to bet on himself. That's why nothing's gone on for some time now, cause nothing's going on.

[Grass]

Let's all keep in the back of our minds that Brian Wilson keep "smile" to himself for twenty years.

that was for completely different reasons.

what were the reasons?

There were many.? The most important was that his band completely rejected the record because it was "too weird" and broke the formula.? Brian had suffered a nervous breakdown a few years before and the stress just got too heavy for him.? He quit trying, Smile was scrapped, and the Beach Boys as a group released a record called Smiley Smile in its place.? This all took place in a span of about 2 years.? Smile was about 75% finished when it was shelved and Brian didn't touch it again until he recently decided to finish it.? Really the only comparison to the current situation with GNR is that at the time of the recordings the Beach Boys were in litigation with Capital Records (and we all know Axl's history of lawsuits).

[Gunna_girl01]

that was just an example. I canTake "Prince" if you prefer. Prince is well known to be also extremely "special" in his head...

get a fuckin life. So has has bi polar? what does that have to do with you? Although from some of your posts, you seem to be a little "special" in the head too....

i think you should both fucking grow up.

[pilferk]

if they did this then it was because the contract allowed them to

so it goes to reason that the contract also allows Axl to do whatever he's doing

my point being that whatever terms they agreed to in their contract - both parties are responsible to uphold them ?

If he's not been held responsible to some time frame - Geffen has thier reasons for allowing it.

Good questions would be: ?Is Axl determined to realize his vision regardless of the contract? ?And is Geffen also willing to forgo some of the terms to allow him to do so?

why do YOU think Geffen hasn't "done something" about it to date?

me? about the album?

I'll answer anyways .. I think a combination of things , 1st off axl could have some "take my sweet ass time" clause in the contract. Or maybe they just have alot of confidence in the project. Or maybe yet they did indeed stop funding the recording as the NYTimes article said so it aint costing them any money now and any "improvements" axl makes to the album which would help make them more money is out of axl's own pocket.

while i was posting my reply to KV, I read your post Saul. ?

I believe that you touched on quite a few viable possibilites for consideration.

If CD is past it's 'deadline' yet, Axl continues to work on it with his own money... ?I'd say there is a lot to respect about that.
And I do think that Geffen believes in what they've created... And I'm really glad that Axl himself believes in what he's doing enough to personally fund its completion.

I think that'd make the CD all that much sweeter an accomplishment for him.

Eva,
? ?I think you hit the nail on the head.? The contract obviously allows this to happen.? What I think people fail to realize is that GnR HAS released material relatively recently as far as the label is concerned.? Even if there are dates built into the contract, I doubt they have SPECIFIC albums slotted into those dates....what they most likely have is some sort of "You have to release ONE of your contracted albums in such and such a time frame".? If you look at the recent (relatively) release history, I think you can get a decent idea of what's going on.

11/30/99? GnR Live: 87 - 93 (which was, I think, the first release under the restructured/renegotiated deal, right?)

3/23/2004 GnR Greatest Hits (and remember, this was originally scheduled for 11/03...just about exactly 4 years after the release of Live).

I am one of those of the mind that GH took CD's "slot" in the contract release schedule, and ended up buying Axl more time to work on CD.? And, if memory serves, both the Live album and the GH album were part of the new deal.? I think a lot of the legal wrangling that went on between Axl and the label was if the label could FORCE Axl to comply to their contract? by CHOOSING to release one of the contracted albums within the time frame even without Axl's approval and involvement.? We all know how that turned out....

[August 18th]

Eva,
? ?I think you hit the nail on the head.? The contract obviously allows this to happen.? What I think people fail to realize is that GnR HAS released material relatively recently as far as the label is concerned.? Even if there are dates built into the contract, I doubt they have SPECIFIC albums slotted into those dates....what they most likely have is some sort of "You have to release ONE of your contracted albums in such and such a time frame".? If you look at the recent (relatively) release history, I think you can get a decent idea of what's going on.

11/30/99? GnR Live: 87 - 93 (which was, I think, the first release under the restructured/renegotiated deal, right?)

3/23/2004 GnR Greatest Hits (and remember, this was originally scheduled for 11/03...just about exactly 4 years after the release of Live).

I am one of those of the mind that GH took CD's "slot" in the contract release schedule, and ended up buying Axl more time to work on CD.? And, if memory serves, both the Live album and the GH album were part of the new deal.? I think a lot of the legal wrangling that went on between Axl and the label was if the label could FORCE Axl to comply to their contract? by CHOOSING to release one of the contracted albums within the time frame even without Axl's approval and involvement.? We all know how that turned out....

i must admit, that sounds pretty believable, but do you know such contracts take place? just curious, because this seems to make sense. either wat, there is no doubt we are in for something big here with not one, but two albums, taking CD's place to buy it more time, and i'm proud to have been standing by axl supporting this prosess all along.

[gnr54]

i hope listen Chinese Democracy before i die. .maybe we'll have it for xmas...

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

Eva,
? ?I think you hit the nail on the head.? The contract obviously allows this to happen.? What I think people fail to realize is that GnR HAS released material relatively recently as far as the label is concerned.? Even if there are dates built into the contract, I doubt they have SPECIFIC albums slotted into those dates....what they most likely have is some sort of "You have to release ONE of your contracted albums in such and such a time frame".? If you look at the recent (relatively) release history, I think you can get a decent idea of what's going on.

11/30/99? GnR Live: 87 - 93 (which was, I think, the first release under the restructured/renegotiated deal, right?)

3/23/2004 GnR Greatest Hits (and remember, this was originally scheduled for 11/03...just about exactly 4 years after the release of Live).

I am one of those of the mind that GH took CD's "slot" in the contract release schedule, and ended up buying Axl more time to work on CD.? And, if memory serves, both the Live album and the GH album were part of the new deal.? I think a lot of the legal wrangling that went on between Axl and the label was if the label could FORCE Axl to comply to their contract? by CHOOSING to release one of the contracted albums within the time frame even without Axl's approval and involvement.? We all know how that turned out....

very interesting points pilferk 

one thing that stuck out in my mind after the Sanctuary deal was announced - when i was reading about publishing rights I learned that the record company (Geffen) would have to pay the licensed publisher (Sanctuary) to produce and distribute the actual compact discs (mechanical license fee).
This could be something that's has had to go through negotiation also.