Here Today... Gone To Hell!

There are a million amazing guitarists out there, but there are very few amazing singers.  How many people do you know that have the ability to duplicate Axl's voice?  I bet you don't know anyone.  What about Slash and izzy?  Anyone can duplicate their shit on guitar.  And you can talk about writing ability all you want, but here are the facts:  Slash is a good guitarist, but he cannot write on his own.  Both Snakepit albums sucked.  Izzy is not that great of a writer either.  To say that their albums did not live up to the GNR standard, is a massive understatement.  Only Axl can make them write material that meets the GNR standard.  It was only when they worked together, along with Axl's direction, that they were able to write what they did.


 if it wasn't for Axl, we would have never heard of Guns n Roses.  Slash would be playing in bars.  Steven would have never been able to afford to have strokes and a heart attack, izzy would probably playing bars aswell.  and duff would be...still drunk.  Axl had the vocal talent, writing talent, look, goals and motivation to make it happen.  The other guys were lazy.  Axl brought the best out in them and made it happen.  So take it how you want folks, but this is the truth.

Just get ready to get ripped to shreds by Booker, Falcon, providman and the usual.... they're already circling.   : ok:

Hey Nick 83
    Thanks for the most fucked up post EVER ON THIS BOARD.  LETS SEE, you were born in 1983, so that would make you a whopping 10 years old when spaghetti was released.  10. Ten. A big mature 10 year old.  You can take your fucked up views of Slash & "the boys" and shove them so far up your 20 year old ass, I hope your mother needs to remove them with plyers.  Go bloat like a dead fish and float upsidedown the river, you

Oh yes, we all know Axl wrote and played every single note of music on AFD, didn't he?   ::)  Without the rest of the guys, Axl Rose would still be the mall-store stealing, girlfriend beating nobody named Bill Bailey.

As would Izzy, as would Steve Adler...And as would Duff and possibly Slash.

But of course, you choose to ommit that.

I agree that Axl needed the rest of the band...

But you cannot deny that they fucking needed him.

Hey Nick 83
    Thanks for the most fucked up post EVER ON THIS BOARD.  LETS SEE, you were born in 1983, so that would make you a whopping 10 years old when spaghetti was released.  10. Ten. A big mature 10 year old.  You can take your fucked up views of Slash & "the boys" and shove them so far up your 20 year old ass, I hope your mother needs to remove them with plyers.  Go bloat like a dead fish and float upsidedown the river, you faggot.

I think Axl was going to be a rockstar with, or without "Guns n Roses".  If he didn't make it with them, then he would have made it with others.

Yeah, Hollywood Rose was a chart-topping, groundbreaking superstar band, weren't they?   ::)

I am not dissing the old members though.

Well it seems to me that you are dissing the ex-members, because you're giving Axl 100% of the credit for GNR's success to date, which is ever so slightly unrealistic and groupie-like.

Axl truly is a unique singer... I have yet to hear another rock singer that sounds quite like him, but to say anyone can "duplicate Slash and Izzy's shit on guitar" is a huge insult.

That must mean that five minutes after picking up a guitar for the first time, everyone should be able to nail Slash's SCOM solo, the bone-crunching Mr. Brownstone riffage, the interplay between the two guitars on Nightrain and the mastery of feedback control heard throughout most of Estranged.

What about the layers of riffs and lines heard in Locomotive, the highly emotive solos in November Rain, the sheer lunacy of the solos in songs such as Don't Damn Me and Perfect Crime. I suppose everyone and their uncle came up with the idea of rearranging the Godfather Theme into a rock instrumental before Slash did (yes, it was Slash's idea, not Axl's, which is probably what you would like to believe).

As for Izzy, what about his songwriting skills? Double Talking Jive, You Could Be Mine, Pretty Tied Up to name but a few of the countless tunes to which he contributed on the Illusion albums, not to mention the significant contribution he made on Appetite for Destruction. I don't think it is any coincidence that the original Guns N' Roses failed to deliver any original music following Izzy's departure.

Next time you listen to Appetite for Destruction, do yourself a favour, and listen to it through headphones. The constantly duelling guitars throughout the album (assuming you have a deep enough listening ear to get past the vocals) show that the efforts of Slash and Izzy are in no way to be sniffed at. The rythym lines put down by Duff and Steven drive the whole thing along, and provide a catalyst for the chemistry required for the band to work. That's right, the band. That's five members, not just one.

Well it seems to me that you are dissing the ex-members, because you're giving Axl 100% of the credit for GNR's success to date, which is ever so slightly unrealistic and groupie-like.

Axl truly is a unique singer... I have yet to hear another rock singer that sounds quite like him, but to say anyone can "duplicate Slash and Izzy's shit on guitar" is a huge insult.

That must mean that five minutes after picking up a guitar for the first time, everyone should be able to nail Slash's SCOM solo, the bone-crunching Mr. Brownstone riffage, the interplay between the two guitars on Nightrain and the mastery of feedback control heard throughout most of Estranged.

What about the layers of riffs and lines heard in Locomotive, the highly emotive solos in November Rain, the sheer lunacy of the solos in songs such as Don't Damn Me and Perfect Crime. I suppose everyone and their uncle came up with the idea of rearranging the Godfather Theme into a rock instrumental before Slash did (yes, it was Slash's idea, not Axl's, which is probably what you would like to believe).

As for Izzy, what about his songwriting skills? Double Talking Jive, You Could Be Mine, Pretty Tied Up to name but a few of the countless tunes to which he contributed on the Illusion albums, not to mention the significant contribution he made on Appetite for Destruction. I don't think it is any coincidence that the original Guns N' Roses failed to deliver any original music following Izzy's departure.

Next time you listen to Appetite for Destruction, do yourself a favour, and listen to it through headphones. The constantly duelling guitars throughout the album (assuming you have a deep enough listening ear to get past the vocals) show that the efforts of Slash and Izzy are in no way to be sniffed at. The rythym lines put down by Duff and Steven drive the whole thing along, and provide a catalyst for the chemistry required for the band to work. That's right, the band. That's five members, not just one.

but to say anyone can "duplicate Slash and Izzy's shit on guitar" is a huge insult.

I said that any competant guitar player can duplicate Slash and Izzy's material on guitar.  In my life, I have seen countless guitarists play GNR material perfectly.  I guess you just haven't really been around many musicians.

I guess you are totally unfamiliar with the recording process.  Have you ever heard Producers and Engineers?  have you ever been directly involved with the recording process?  Obviously not because you would know how serious the roles of Producer and Engineer are.  They are responsible for everything that you've mentioned in the above segment from your post.

And, the "rearranging the Godfather" theme example that you mentioned is very lame. Any decent guitarist can play the godfather theme.  Slash was just somebody that played it live. Only uninformed people like you think Slash is "the only guy that can play that!!!  Wow, Slash must be the best guitarist on earth!!".  Do you actually think Slash is special because of that? If so, then that officially confirmed the fact that you don't know shit, about anything.  

Axl brought the talent and intensity, which created the chemistry that inspired everything Izzy and Slash wrote.

I guess you are totally unfamiliar with the recording process.  Have you ever heard Producers and Engineers?  have you ever been directly involved with the recording process?  Obviously not because you would know how serious the roles of Producer and Engineer are.  They are responsible for everything that you've mentioned in the above segment from your post.

There are a million amazing guitarists out there, but there are very few amazing singers.  How many people do you know that have the ability to duplicate Axl's voice?  I bet you don't know anyone.  What about Slash and izzy?  Anyone can duplicate their shit on guitar.  And you can talk about writing ability all you want, but here are the facts:  Slash is a good guitarist, but he cannot write on his own.  Both Snakepit albums sucked.  Izzy is not that great of a writer either.  To say that their albums did not live up to the GNR standard, is a massive understatement.  Only Axl can make them write material that meets the GNR standard.  It was only when they worked together, along with Axl's direction, that they were able to write what they did.


 if it wasn't for Axl, we would have never heard of Guns n Roses.  Slash would be playing in bars.  Steven would have never been able to afford to have strokes and a heart attack, izzy would probably playing bars aswell.  and duff would be...still drunk.  Axl had the vocal talent, writing talent, look, goals and motivation to make it happen.  The other guys were lazy.  Axl brought the best out in them and made it happen.  So take it how you want folks, but this is the truth.

What u say about Slash and Izzy is not only wrong is distressing to hear................Slash can't write guitar stuff and neither can Izzy...well how do u explain the brilliant guitar stuff on GNR tracks....i suppose Axl wrote Sweet child o mine's riffs???

I am very disappointed that any one would voice such flawed views.

How could you have interpreted the meaning of "anyone" as somebody that does not know how to play guitar?

You are exploiting that because you have ZERO weight in your argument, and you are falling, grasping onto whatever you can to try and save yourself before you hit the ground.  When one grasps onto shreds of meaningless garbage like yourself, it is obvious to everyone that your argument is over and you are just sticking around to save face.  But, you and I know that you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper.  

Idiot

But then again, you can't help it because it is one of the last things you can do to try hold on to what little ground you have right now.  

I am disgusted at myself  

You're just a stubborn, ignorant, Godfather obessed italian.

Please open your mind and drop the biased attitude.

I went and saw that you are from Northern ireland. I have spent much time in Ireland, so now I understand what I have been dealing with.  You are the typical ignorant and stubborn person that I would expect from that region.

Nobody respects Slash for the Godfather theme.  Sorry buddy.

In fact, most GNR fans don't even know he played it.  

However, let's look at the facts:  Slash, Izzy, and Steven were all drug addicts.

You are a moron.

Go read this thread a few times and then maybe you'll understand what the fuck I am actually saying.

1. From Webster's dictionary...

Anyone (noun) Any person at all.

Please..... You know what I meant, so cut it out.

"Apparently, you were looking into a mirror as you typed that, because you perfectly described your arguments.  They are meaningless, pointless, ridiculous, inane, and you're desperately trying to save yourself by projecting your weaknesses onto everyone who shreds your senseless arguments like the swiss cheese that they are."


blah blah blah. a meaningless expected responce from a typical opposer.  try and post something a little more challenging instead of just rehashing other material and throwing it back.

2. "Idiot"

"Ah, the expected insult.  Another sign of a weakness in the debate department."

Not an insult.  Whoever I have called an idiot, is an idiot.  Atleast by judging their written arguments, and their clueless misinterpretations.



3. But then again, you can't help it because it is one of the last things you can do to try hold on to what little ground you have right now.

"You already said that.  Redundancy is yet another sign of a weak or nonexistent argument."

If you step into a debate, then make sure you have some ammunition.  The above quote is a perfect example of lameness, so I think this can be applied to you as well: you can't help it because it is one of the last things you can do to try hold on to what little ground you have right now.


4. You're just a stubborn, ignorant, Godfather obessed italian.

"More personal attacks.  More proof of that an individual with weak, infantile verbal skills sits at your keyboard."

Not personal attacks.  Just pointing out a possible ethnic and cultural link between that poster and his arguments.  Hey Mr.  Wannabe Wordsmith, right now, you are getting owned, so I wouldn't go calling my verbal skills weak or infantile(.  I make my posts in a rushed few minutes, you're probably spending half your day on this.  laughable.)


5. Please open your mind and drop the biased attitude.

"This coming from someone who states "Axl IS Guns N Roses!  I couldn't care less about the other guys!"   ::)"

Another example of misinterpretation.  I never said "I couldn't care less about the other guys".  I love the other guys and have a ton of respect for them.  I just know Axl's role.


6. I went and saw that you are from Northern ireland. I have spent much time in Ireland, so now I understand what I have been dealing with.  You are the typical ignorant and stubborn person that I would expect from that region.

"Wow.  Now you're spitting prejudicial remarks towards someone's nationality in a pathetic effort to save your worthless argument.  Even after all the absurdity with which you've inundated this thread, I still didn't expect you to stoop that low.  And again, it proves how effective you are at defending any argument you have."

No, I did not "spit prejudicial remarks".  I have lived in ireland, and have spent a large amount of time there.  I have interacted with the people, experienced the culture, and have a deep understanding of the whole topic. Therefore, my remarks cannot be considered "prejudgemental".  


7.Nobody respects Slash for the Godfather theme.  Sorry buddy.

"I respect him for it, among many other things.  No need to apologize."

Well, then you must be a very lonely boy.


8. In fact, most GNR fans don't even know he played it.  

"Ah, now you're resorting to instigating factual inaccuracies.  Maybe 13 year olds who saw "Guns N Roses" at the VMAs last year and who weren't around when Slash was playing it to sold out crowds don't know about it, but all longtime GNR fans do."
 
First off, Slash playing the Godfather theme at concerts is the cue to go to the bathroom or get in line to go buy some more beer.  

GNR has sold somewhere around 50 million albums(I do not know the exact number.  probably more though).  How many of those 50 million people do you think have heard the Godfather theme by Slash?  And if they have actually heard, how many actually like it and actually consider it one Slash's "great" contributions?  Maybe you should create a poll and see for yourself.  As far as "long term GNR fans" go, the only long term GNR fans in this day and age are the internet obsessed ones, and that "population" does not represent a significant amount of the total GNR fans in this world.  So, your "point" about long term gunners loving the Godfather theme, and having respect for Slash because of it, cannot justified.  Even if you wanted to say this about the internet obsessed fans, I still think you'd come up with the conclusion that the Godfather theme by Slash isn't exactly anything important in the fans' eyes.


9.  "However, let's look at the facts:  Slash, Izzy, and Steven were all drug addicts.

So was Axl.  Ever heard the song "Coma"?  He wrote the lyrics about a drug overdose of his.
More facts: who the fuck cares who was a drug addict?  If that's the only method you can use to criticize Slash, Izzy, or Steven, it drives the final nail into the coffin of your argument."

Axl did drugs obviously, but I never recall him getting "fucked up" on drugs.  He was never addicted to anything, while the others were hardcore addicts whose lives were at stake.  Axl always had control over his life, the others did not.  That is the differance



10. "Yeah, understand him Izzy.  He's saying this....

"Axl was Guns N Roses!  You're a fucking idiot!  Slash was a drug addict, you fucking moron!  You fucking idiot!  Axl did everything!  Moron!  Slash was inspired by Axl!  So was Izzy!  Jackass!  You fucking idiots are a bunch of fucking idiots, you fucking idiots!""


Sarcasm and it doesn't make a point.  Sorry bud.

The ones who think insults are allowed on the board needs to go read the rules again. Insulting the other side doesn't exactly make you look that smart.



/jarmo

Nick83

Why don't you just cool down a little bit. You made your opinions very clear to us, so live it alone allready..

blah blah blah. a meaningless expected responce from a typical opposer.  try and post something a little more challenging instead of just rehashing other material and throwing it back.

Anyone (noun) Any person at all.

Please..... You know what I meant, so cut it out.

"Idiot."  Not an insult.

Whoever I have called an idiot, is an idiot.  Atleast by judging their written arguments, and their clueless misinterpretations.

If you step into a debate, then make sure you have some ammunition.  

the above quote is a perfect example of lamenes

so I think this can be applied to you as well: you can't help it because it is one of the last things you can do to try hold on to what little ground you have right now.

Not personal attacks.  Just pointing out a possible ethnic and cultural link between that poster and his arguments.  

Hey Mr.  Wannabe Wordsmith

you are getting owned, so I wouldn't go calling my verbal skills weak or infantile(.  I make my posts in a rushed few minutes, you're probably spending half your day on this.  laughable.)

No, I did not "spit prejudicial remarks".  I have lived in ireland, and have spent a large amount of time there.  I have interacted with the people, experienced the culture, and have a deep understanding of the whole topic. Therefore, my remarks cannot be considered "prejudgemental".

Well, then you must be a very lonely boy.

the only long term GNR fans in this day and age are the internet obsessed ones, and that "population" does not represent a significant amount of the total GNR fans in this world.

I love the other guys and have a ton of respect for them.  I just know Axl's role.

Axl did drugs obviously, but I never recall him getting "fucked up" on drugs.  

He was never addicted to anything

while the others were hardcore addicts whose lives were at stake.  Axl always had control over his life, the others did not.

Sarcasm

and it doesn't make a point.

Sorry bud.

when one gets into the heat of a debate, words and insults just creep in without the poster really noticing.  I try to abstain from using insults, but it happens sometimes.  

Wow haven't had one of these in like 2 months....I don't have the energy to dispute this...just going to say it's not true.

~KYI

No actually none of them they would be dime store hoods named Bill Bailey.   :P


Because it wasn't relevant.


Good, because he did.


Dizzy I like your style! : ok:

"Obviously my posts are so challenging that you cannot conjure a real counterpoint.  Surprise, surprise."

I should reverse that statement because it seems to be that you are the one that cannot "conjure any real counterpoints". You are a hypocrite as everyone will further see in an example somewhere down below.


"Nope.  You stated "anyone can play Slash or Izzy's shit."  Anyone means anyone.  Nowhere in the definition of the word does it say anything about guitarist.  You were the one who said "anyone", so don't make your Freudians look like someone else's fault."

My god.  You are a fucking child.  I know the meaning, you know the meaning, and so does everyone else.  Stop overanalyzing something so pointless.


"Oh yeah, what the fuck is it then, a compliment?   ::)"

The meaning has already been explained.  Enough with the sarcastic filler.



"So why aren't you constantly calling yourself an idiot?"

Sarcastic filler once again



"Try following that advice yourself.  You're the only one who isn't heeding those words."


Filler material once again.  Reversing everything, in your mind, is such an easy way to save yourself, but unfortunately it does work, has not worked, and will not work.


"Rereading your own statements, eh?"

Sarcastic filler



?More piss-poor refutation, which violates your own rule about rehashing what has already been said.?
 

filler




?Reread that statement a few times and perhaps you'll see your glaring contradiction.?

No contradiction.  





"My last name isn't Smith, and my expansive vocabulary is the least of your worries.  Learning how to formulate a coherent and sensisble argument should be high on your priority list."
filler


"If you truly believe one word of the above, you should immediately seek refuge in a mental institution."

Sarcastic filler


"Who the hell used the word "prejudgmental"?  You attacked someone for their nationality, proving how weak you are when it comes to debating.  If you really had any foundation on which to stand, you wouldn't need to insult anyone at all, much less stoop to the level of prejudicial insults."

Your originally accused me of "spitting prejudicial remarks".  Since I have a true understanding of Ireland, the people, and their culture, what I said and the context I said it in, cannot be considered "prejudicial".   I didn't attack anyone's nationality.  I simply recognized the type of person I was dealing with.



"Well, you and I must have something in common after all."

No.  You're on your own.



"Christ, you are delusional."

Please go and properly discuss the entire paragraph in my post.  Isolating a segment of my post, commenting on it with a sarcastic remark, and neglecting to discuss it in depth shows that you are simply unable to disprove what I have said. That is disappointing for me.  You got away from me the easiest way you could.  Please go back and refute my paragraph.


"Yeah, you state that Axl's role is that he is Guns N Roses (note your title of this thread).  That statement alone is disrespectful to the other four original members."

You look at things in such a limited way.  Open your eyes.  Go back and read everything I have written.  Everything is explained, so there is no excuse for your misinterpretations. I guess your stupidity and blindness are responsible.  As far as being disrespectful goes, stop basing your opinion on your single perspective, and start reading and accepting what I have written as it is intended to be interpreted as.  I say what I want to say.  if it was intended to be disrespectful, then I would have clearly indicated so, and would have also admitted it if it was brought up.


"Probably because you were too young to follow GNR in their heydey."

I've read every interview ever published.  Axl did drugs, but he was in control.


"Then why did he check himself into rehab?"

I don't recall him checking himself into rehab, but if he did, he most likely checked himself in on his own.  Axl is very self aware and self obsessed.  He had control over his own life.  The other members had no control.  They didn't care about themselves or the band enough to actually get clean. The record company took charge of the situation because they were scared to death that the boys were going to die.  So, the boys were forcefully taken to rehab, multiple times each.  They didn't have any control over their own lives, and if it was up to them to get clean, they'd either be dead or still addicted today.


"Then how did they sober up if they had no control?"

I already discussed this above.  

"Quit pretending you know everything about GNR history and read a few articles on it instead.  You might learn something."

Filler.


?Very observant.?

Sarascm


"It's ripped your arguments to shreds time and time again, though your fatuous arguments aren't that difficult to rip apart to begin with."

Filler


"The only thing you need apologize for is your worthless, senseless arguments which are taken seriously by none.  A word of advice: quit while you're behind.  Way behind."

 You are adopting my attitude and style to try and compete, but just results in more filler statements.



"Funny how you're the only one who needs to resort to insults.  Makes yet another statement on the extent of your debating capabilities."

More filler.  I explained myself.  Must I explain in detail to you, illiterate boy?  Ok, I guess I will:  You say that I "need to resort to insults."  I said, "when one gets into the heat of a debate, words and insults just creep in without the poster really noticing.  I try to abstain from using insults, but it happens sometimes."  Now, where in the above quote does it show "need"?  

Not only does Nick make the dumbest posts, but the most unreadable posts as well, since he can't seem to figure out how to use the "quote" function".  I'm not even going to wade through his worthless mess to dignify his puerile statements.  Trying to reason with him is like talking into a deep space vacuum, though a deep space vacuum could probably formulate more intelligent replies.

Fuckin' hell, what a thread!

The topic of the thread is probably already long gone, but I'll just have to take this opportunity to agree to disagree with Nick83. I believe that Guns N' Roses was more than just the Axl Rose show back in their heyday. Each of the 5 original members contributed to the formula and the chemistry that made them a success. That and they came along at just the right time.

Oh well, that's enough out of me anyway, Nick already knows everything about me cos I'm Irish. I'm off down the pub now in my green jumpsuit and little hat complete with feather with all my other leprechaun mates to get wasted on gallons on Guinness.

T'was fun lads, I'm off!

Unreadable? I admit they might be a little confusing, but you can figure them out.  Don't use that as an excuse to ditch the argument.  If you truly are uncapable of continuing, then bow out without any excuses.

Trying to reason with [Nick] is like talking into a deep space vacuum, though a deep space vacuum could probably formulate more intelligent replies.

Only an idiot like you

what a couple of other people "think", and feel that their support makes you "right" in the argument.

I hope some unbiased intelligent people read this thread and comment.  

You need to hear some truth from someone else besides me.

Only an idiot like you would care about what a couple of other people "think", and feel that their support makes you "right" in the argument.  I hope some unbiased intelligent people read this thread and comment.  You need to hear some truth from someone else besides me.